/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>722071

Because without suffering there is no meaning.

>>722074

But this is suffering because I was made this way, not because of my faith. And you can't even excuse myself because it my fault, I was too stupid to notice things that changed my life forever.

>>722071

Stupidity is just another consequence of the Fall of man.

>>722078

God foresaw everything and he still created it, or is he not omniscient? Pray and put your faith in God's plan. Remember Christ's sacrifice. Divine providence has led you up to this point. Part of the beauty of creation is a vast incomprehensible mystery. You're not going to get any concrete answers, no true ones at least.

>>722083

Wise and reasonable answer, not.

>>722088

But I do unconsciously, unknowingly or straight up retarded things that are sinful in one way or another.

>>722071

So that you can overcome like Jesus overcame death.

You can do it, have faith and get it done.

>>722097

But it only gets worse for me and I cant even claim that is wasn't my fault.

>>722092

Foolishness is a sin and sin didn't enter the world until Adam and eve transgressed against God. Not sure what this catty response is about.

>>722099

You need pain and you need struggle. That is what makes you a real person.

It will decide your character.

Running from your fears is not strength. Facing them is.

>>722101

>someone asks why something happened

>spouting common sense without helping

>>722103

>what is 2+2

>its 4

>DONT ANSWER MY QUESTION WITH COMMON SENSE1!!!!

If you already know the answer don't ask the question.

>>722102

>That is what makes you a real person.

Yes but to a point, being seen as lower than a human and humiliated without any chance of change is doubtfully a good thing.

>>722105

You're just stating the reason for it but not how to change it. I doubt you will get far if you don't think how to change something.

>>722114

But when you do sinful things it can't be true.

>>722101

>Everything i dont like is sin

>>722115

who is more despicable than the Sinner?

and what greater display of humble condescension could God show than to reach down and save one?

>>722119

>save one?

That doesn't seem to happen.

>>722124

God doesn't save sinners?

>>722125

Not me, that is.

>>722478

Its not true at all though, it just lead me to more sin so it becomes pointless. I think of ending it all since I only get lower.

>>725107

Suicide is a mortal sin though. You can only make your situation worse by it.

>>725148

But I do make it worse already. Everything I do leads me to sinning.

>>722071

Can you be more specific? The afflictions you describe throughout this thread are very vague. I think we might be able to help you more if you go into more detail instead of just saying "I'm stupid/incompetent," "Bad things happen and get worse," etc.

>>725489

Its hard to describe. I will just say something REALLY stupid and wrong without thinking, like I'm possessed. I don't know why it happens but it completely changed my life for worse more than once. And in general being retarded and making retarded choices because I was either not taught or out of pure luck/being stupid. Especially treating people good, I bacame despised, destroyed and isolated. But I can't even claim my suffering is justified, although its was mostly self-destructive it was still extremely sinful. I'm just hopeless. Some people are stupid but strong, other the opposite but I don't have either.

>>725504

I'm going to be brutally honest; I've seen these kinds of threads before: where the OP is at a low point, and no matter how much encouragement or exhortations to faith are given, the OP still spins everything in a negative light, no matter what. I think you may have clinical depression, trauma or other mental issues that none of us are equipped to deal with. You probably need to talk with your pastor/priest and/or a therapist/psychiatrist.

>>722071

For you to learn a very simple lesson: Sin doesn't define you, Christ does.

>>725842

>still spins everything in a negative light, no matter what

Please tell me how to see in a positive light when I'm living on people pity and nobody treats me like a human nor I know how to act like one as well.

>>726202

For a start you don't have any disability and you're not dying.

I met a young guy in a monastery who was lame and had an incurable cancer, he was less negative than you.

>>726239

Also, everyone who read this say a prayer for him. I don't know if he's still alive but may God grant him a peaceful death, full of faith and hope for eternal life. If it's in his plan even miracolous healing.

Because He want you to become an advocate for Nootropics to the masses.

>>726239

>he was less negative than you.

Of course there are people thousand times worse than me who are still infinitely stronger than me. The problem is that I have been completely isolated and my trust obliterated. I don't claim physical pain is more manageable but these people have experienced love in some kind of a way.

>>726202

I literally said in my previous post that I don't know how. Considering that after all the advice you got here, you're still despondent, you more than likely have major mental issues that pithy platitudes on an anonymous image board are not going to fix.

Again: either go see your pastor/priest, and/or go see a psychologist and/or psychiatrist. You more than likely need a level of help that we simply cannot give you.

>>726246

I rest my case.

>>726247

>either go see your pastor/priest, and/or go see a psychologist and/or psychiatrist.

Might as well tell me to be myself.

>>726249

I'm just going to pray for you now. At this point, now I'm not sure if you have mental issues and are speaking from good faith, or if you are just a troll speaking in bad faith.

>>726306

Troll about what, I live in catch22 and feel like quitting is the least sinful way.

>>726442

Its simple only when I actually need it to work, otherwise its really complex in finding ways to sin and winnie the pooh up things. After what I've done a few minutes ago I'm ashamed to even pray now.

>>726634

Equating "Get professional help" with "Just be yourself and everything will magically be rainbows and unicorns!" either comes off as trollish, or you are in a very bad state of mind that further cements the fact that you need professional help.

Seeing a priest or psychotherapist is literally the opposite extreme of "Just be yourself!" You're going to have to go see a stranger and form rapport with them in order to talk about and process deep seated traumas and issues that will be hard work and make you uncomfortable and even be painful, and will take at least months if not years to complete. You may also be suffering something that is a chemical imbalance in your brain that may necessitate antidepressants or whatnot, which may send you on a months or years long treadmill of trying out different medications until you find the one that works or leaves you with the least life-debilitating side effects. Or even a combination of both of these This isn't empty pithy feel good advice, this is confronting you with the cold hard reality that you may be in such a bad shape that you may have to undergo a program that will entail emotional, psychological and even physical pain for months or years before you get better.

Of course, more than likely your response post is probably going to be something like: "That sounds terrible, I don't want to do that!" or "See? I'm not strong enough to go through all that! I'm doomed!" Instead of having a mentality of "Well, if I'm going to get better, I need to trust in God and go through with this. You've go to go through Hell before you get to Heaven."

And that's what makes you come off as possibly trollish too. This entire thread has basically been:

>"I'm miserable; help me."

<*Poster gives advice*

>"That doesn't work, I'm still miserable, help me."

<*Poster quotes scripture*

>"That doesn't work, I'm still miserable, help me."

<*Poster recommends professional help*

>"That doesn't work, I'm still miserable, help me."

And so on, and so on. If you're not in a bad mental state, then you're coming across as either trolling people to give you advice and you shoot said advice down for the lulz over and over again, or you don't really want help and you just want to whine.

TL:DR: If you're not a troll and are sincerely in this much mental distress, you're only going to get help professionally; not by asking for advice from unqualified strangers on the Internet and then whining about it.

>>726645

>you may be in such a bad shape that you may have to undergo a program that will entail emotional, psychological and even physical pain for months or years before you get better.

Im in an irreversible shape. And yes, its a pity advice. Had you been in my shoes you would have said the same thing as me. I wanted a sign from God that there is any point to live but I simply don't see it, the opposite is everywhere.

>>726650

>I'm in an irreversible shape. And yes, its a pity advice. Had you been in my shoes you would have said the same thing as me.

>I wanted a sign from God that there is any point to live but I simply don't see it, the opposite is everywhere.

Being this suicidal and hopeless is a prime symptom of needing professional help.

Get off the Internet and get professional help already.

As for a "sign from God", that is not how prayers always work:

https://youtu.be/7wQkF8dWGiY

>>726737

I'm praying for years now, I just feel ashamed to do it now.

>>726783

Normal temptation, just force yourself a little bit in the beginning and it will go away.

>>726783

>>726801

^This. I've lost count of how many times I sinned so badly that I felt ashamed to pray, and basically "punished" myself by going without prayer out of shame. All I did was delay the inevitable and make things worse. Things got better literally as soon as I threw myself before God's mercy.

I forget which saint it was, but there was a quote from said saint who put it best:

>"One should be afraid to sin, but bold to prayer and repentance. The Devil twists things so that one is bold to sin, but afraid of prayer and repentance."

>>722071

Because through suffering you achieve theosis.

>>726783

>>726861

And before you say "But I've been praying for years, and things don't get better." God works on his own time, not yours. And this very fact could be a test of your own patience and faith:

>Luke 18:1-8 New King James Version (NKJV)

>The Parable of the Persistent Widow

>Then He spoke a parable to them, that men always ought to pray and not lose heart, 2 saying: “There was in a certain city a judge who did not fear God nor regard man. 3 Now there was a widow in that city; and she came to him, saying, ‘Get justice for me from my adversary.’ 4 And he would not for a while; but afterward he said within himself, ‘Though I do not fear God nor regard man, 5 yet because this widow troubles me I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me.’ ”

>6 Then the Lord said, “Hear what the unjust judge said. 7 And shall God not avenge His own elect who cry out day and night to Him, though He bears long with them? 8 I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?”

>>722071

God does not love everyone equally. Get this new age hippie blasphemous bullshit out of your mind. God has always played favorites. Read the bible.

>>726996

It's only favoritism to the bitter, jealous, and envious.

Why would God give you more when your bitter and ungrateful for what he has given you already?

People earn more by responsibly managing what God has already given them regardles if they're righteous or unrighteous.

Would you give $10,000 to someone who gambled what money they already had away?

If you are irresponsible with and ungrateful for the things God has already given you, pointing you finger at your neighbor saying, "God clearly plays favorites," why would he give you more?

You're supposed to be learning something. God does not do things without reason.

Sounds like to me you value the gift more than the giver.

>They traded the truth about God for a lie. So they worshiped and served the things God created instead of the Creator himself…

Be thankful and grateful for what God has given you even if it the only thing you have is breath in your lungs.

>>722071

Maybe because if God had made you a genius or handsome dude from birth you would never get to know Him and would drown in your pride. Look at all the great people in the Bible. David was a shepherd, James and Andrew were fishermen, and Paul had a thorn in his flesh. None of them were great scholars or anything like that.

>>727017

Not the anon you're replying to, but God didn't give - or failed to give - me money that I gambled away. He failed to give me KNOWLEDGE that apparently everyone else, without fail, got in one way or another by the time they were 12 or so.

In a nutshell, I was denied the knowledge that the world IS a war of everyone against everyone else, and that if I wanted good things, I'd have to compete for them and defeat the other people who want the same things. Just by being good, civil, considerate of other people and their feelings, that by itself will NEVER give me good things. No one will ever walk to me and say "you're a really good person, so here's a good job with an excellent pay for you." On the contrary: the best jobs go to those who are more violent and throat-cutting, because "that's just how the corporate world and the work world work."

I'm not even complaining that I can't be violent; I'm complaining that I was absolutely impeded to know that truth in time to be able to protect myself in this war of all against all. And when I was unable to protect myself, no God appeared to protect me either.

Why would God allow my parents to make it so I couldn't know that truth at the appropriate time? It makes no sense whatsoever. If God showed up and gave me that knowledge, or left a note on my desk or something, He wouldn't be messing with anyone's free will, so the free will excuse doesn't apply here. God simply decided that I was gonna be the one human who'd have to go through life without crucial knowledge that everyone or most everyone else has. Maybe he wanted me to be traumatized by the inculcated inability to protect myself, and then that I grew up poor and unfulfilled, but then what kind of father would want that for his son? Only a sadistic one, which is what God seems to be.

I play devil's advocate too much to be the good guy anymore.

Now I just think people have to suffer and if you live a life of pure joy then I'll be seeing you later for eternity as somewhere you sold your soul and gave up.

Nice to see that the conflicts of mortality is still in the guise of whether or not a few years of being somewhat uncomfortable is worth aeons of torment and reforging. It's not even a challenge anymore with social media and rich, first-world nations.

>>727131

You were spared knowledge and granted extended innocence.

Adam and Eve must be so jealous of you right now, to have had your innocence stripped at age 12 instead of young adulthood.

You can at least recall the sensation of innocent joy, yet you sit back and let your dissatisfaction with the harsh cold of the world prevent you from creating warm shelters for not only yourself but others. But yes, continue to exist and blame the universe for it's own entropy. I'm sure if you scream loud enough the black abyss will eventually answer.

>>726996

>>727131

Finally someone who understands.

>>727157

>pure joy

Can you understand the difference between no joy, or should I say negative versus pure joy, I think you don't.

>>727181

>he still doesn't realize how flawed some people are born

You do realize that suffering in your imagination is different than suffering in reality?

>>727214

>Finally someone who understands that God hates me and is out to get me because reasons.

This is the answer you wanted to hear? To be validated in this blasphemous heresy so you can continue your "woe is me" pity party? Between an abusive father and being a bullied outsider, I drowned myself in this mentality for years: thinking everyone hated me and the world was out to get me and that I was a hopeless lost cause, doomed to failure and loneliness and alienation. Predictably, it got me nowhere, and God and professional help have both been part of the healing process.

Also, I can't believe I did not catch this the first time:

>>726650

>I'm in an irreversible shape.

Deriving a twisted form of pride from how one is so uniquely beyond any form of help, is also emblematic of this mentality. Do you realize how arrogant and prideful it is to claim that your condition is so especially hopeless, that not even the God who controls the cosmos can mend you?

You really do need prayer and professional help. God help you.

>>727223

>This is the answer you wanted to hear? To be validated in this blasphemous heresy so you can continue your "woe is me" pity party? Between an abusive father and being a bullied outsider, I drowned myself in this mentality for years: thinking everyone hated me and the world was out to get me and that I was a hopeless lost cause, doomed to failure and loneliness and alienation. Predictably, it got me nowhere, and God and professional help have both been part of the healing process.

Why are you like that, you're dishonest to both yourself and me. Nobody said anything that disproved me, that's why I said that.

>that not even the God

I never claimed he couldn't, he could in less then a second but for some reason doesn't want to and the more I live the more I offend Him.

>>727181

>On top of that you have heard the advice almost certainly before, if not in person then in a movie or song. But you rejected it.

With all due respect, but you assume too much. Right there you're assuming I grew up in the US or in any civilized part of the world where information flows more or less freely. That's not the case at all; I grew up in a 3rd world shithole where it wasn't difficult at all for my evil parents to keep me locked away in a bubble, with no access to the vital information I was talking about.

Anons like >>727158 might argue that I was lucky to be locked up in that blissful bubble, but the problem is that every bubble eventually bursts. And even if they didn't, it's still not right to make your child physically and mentally incapable to fight back against the violence that the world will try with all its might to initiate against him. Because at some point, the world will succeed in attacking you, no matter how hidden away you are, and no matter where in the world or in what circumstances you live.

I wanted God to literally materialize in front of me and give me the bildung I needed in order to be able to fight back the real world as needed. >>727223 mentions professional help twice in his post. I couldn't agree more. Without HELP, you can't pull yourself up by your own bootstraps, although I'll do the assuming now and say that 1st world people seem to believe that they can. What is seems to me is that they're just conveniently ignoring the hidden sources of power that are available to them, but not to unfortunate people in their own countries or in other parts of the world. But that's a whole other story.

What good is it to "hear the advice, if not in person then in a movie or song", if the advice is given in a language you can't understand? Sounds like a cop-out for God: "hey man, I did send you the info you needed, remember that Chinese guy screaming in your ear when you were 8? It's totally your fault that you didn't take the initiative to start learning Chinese by yourself when you were 3, so you could understand it by the time you were 8. Just because I'm God, doesn't mean I can do everything for you if you don't put in some effort yourself."

HELP. Professional or otherwise. Because you can't save yourself at 8 years old. And I did the best I could to stay alive, literally with no help from people or God, and even if it meant I had to become a zombie.

>>727214

>Finally someone who understands

Glad my post could be of use. To reply again to >>727181, posting in places like this is pretty much what I can do "to make sure that others know and are spared the pain of what [I] experienced." To do more, I'd need much more power than what I do have. But I still do what's in my power to do - even if I know that there are people who will just claim that I'm an entitled little bitch who wants God to do all the work for him. I guess you just can't avoid those kinds of apologists, but we do what we can.

>>727241

>Why are you like that, you're dishonest to both yourself and me. Nobody said anything that disproved me, that's why I said that.

No, you just don't want to acknowledge anything that disproves you. You hear and ignore it/distort it into your warped worldview to continue to drown yourself in despondency. Your heart is hardened.

>>727214

>>he still doesn't realize how flawed some people are born

>You do realize that suffering in your imagination is different than suffering in reality?

I mean you're talking about not having had the knowledge about how competitive business / work is. Compared to many of the strifes people can encounter, it's hard to say that's the biggest form of suffering one can encounter.

>>727269

>talking about not having had the knowledge about how competitive business / work is

thats not me unless you mean basic human existence with business and work.

>>727271

Wtf, I love my life now

There is a reason why the term "OP is a faggot" exists.

Your own faggotry and suffering is your own doing.

If you allowed to be bullied in school, the it's your fault for being a pussy.

If you allowed yourself to be scammed by a stranger, then it's your fault for being naive.

If a bird shat on your shoulder, then it's your fault for not being careful.

If your parents hate you, then it's your fault for being a disappointment.

If you got raped by a pederast priest, then it's your fault for being such a faggot.

>>722071

So that thou will haveth the gift of the challenge.

The challenge will indeed make you strong.

>>727272

>When you say you had to become a zombie, do you mean you had to eat human flesh to survive?

No. It may come as a shock to you, but some of the people who make that kind of comment mean it in a metaphorical way.

So, metaphorically speaking, what I meant was that the only way I found of staying alive, as opposed to putting a bullet in my own head, was by renouncing feelings of any kind, specially but not limited to feelings of belonging with the human race and being a human myself. I had to do that because of my parents' grooming me to be unable to fight back evildoers and protect my integrity, which meant I could only enter relationships to be exploited by people. So I had to eschew relationships altogether, which is only attainable if you switch off in your brain a great deal of what makes you human.

So God gave me the enemy that turned me into a less than human being AND the means of surviving as such a deformed creature, carrying the trauma in my head for as long as I live. Terrific. That's all the more evidence for my conclusion that God is a sadistic winnie the pooher. He wants me alive and in pain I can't assuage, just for His depraved amusement.

>>727279

>If you got raped by a pederast priest, then it's your fault for being such a faggot

The fact that the likes of you can get away with that kind of comment is precisely why we all need to be allowed to develop enough strength to respond with fire to violence initiators like yourself. If I could kill people like you with my bare hands, I wouldn't even care that God is a sadistic winnie the pooher, because then I could be doing a lot more than what I presently can to make this world a better place. It wouldn't make any difference that God doesn't care, because us people would be doing the work that He refuses to do, so winnie the pooh Him and the violence-initiating monkeys that he favours over the righteous who don't initiate violence.

>>727279

Things I couldn't control are my fault? By that logic we might as well don't call bad things done to others as sins, they had ways to prevent them even though the didn't really.

If you do not suffer, you do not grow.

>>722071

Because without diversity there would be no change in the world. You might be stupid but you have the same potential to improve as others(as long as your brain is not completely defective). For example a genius would go from making one million per year to 10. You can still go from selling food in a fast food to being an accountant. The change might be on the same magnitude but from different levels.

>>727468

Please tell me how waking with dread, being afraid and hating your life, and wanting to kill yourself(and almost succeeding) from young age a good thing. Especially when you watch everyone else have AT LEAST a normal, if not much more than that. Please tell me how this makes you grow, everyone still sees me as an inferior and talks behind my back, if not even outright.

>>727783

But that was because of His belief, me because I'm alive. And after all I'm just an inferior human.

>>727778

Of course I'm not going to tell you that a life of suffering is all good and a blessing, but it did lead you to being here on a Christian "forum" if you will, caring about the word of God, while the people living "normal lives" are perhaps much less focused on Christ.

>>727785

And that somehow will lead me to a better end, if anything the people who did bad to me have thousand times better chances. I mean, there are enough saints who lived great lives and then repent.

>>727786

Except that lives focused on meaningless things aren't great. Seems like you've got your priorities mixed up. Maybe in the eyes of Christ you're leading a much worthier life than they are right now, isn't that what it's all about?

>>727788

>Except that lives focused on meaningless things aren't great. Seems like you've got your priorities mixed up.

I don't think you even understood what I wrote.

>Maybe in the eyes of Christ you're leading a much worthier life than they are right now, isn't that what it's all about?

I'm not.

>>727790

I'm not a native speaker, so maybe.

Or perhaps you didn't understand what I meant.

Either way, anything that is not filled with love for God or your neighbour is vanity.

All the normalities of life outside of this are unnecessary or even obstructive to a life fully committed to Christ.

I think you're better off bringing your concerns to a priest (and God Himself), they'll be of more help than a bunch of strangers, well-meaning but still, on an anonymous imageboard.

>>727784

>And after all I'm just an inferior human.

You said it yourself. A servant is not greater than his master. If Jesus Christ suffered and died, anything less than that count that as a blessing from God and praise Him with what you have.

probably because if you were smart you would not have made mistakes that led you to seek out god's existence, you would just be soulless and think you are the center of your perceived universe, as if you were perfect when you really aren't, sorta like satan

>>722131

Not yet, that is.

>>722074

no, suffering is a result of sin. you don't need suffering to have meaning

Who here really believes Jesus ever lived?. Where is the proof as the only writings outlining his life came 100 years after his death. Would they not have at least wrote about him as he lived and of his parents and of his place of death. Nothing , just all third hand accounts.

>>729861

They did, it's called the New Testament

additional support

https://carm.org/non-biblical-accounts-new-testament-events-andor-people

bump

>>729868

Seriously.. the best evidence is actually his followers themselves.

Other than that, not even liberal, secular scholars say the NT was written a hundred years afterwards. Even the prophetic literature is dated in the 90s (Revelation), but some place it as early as the 60s AD as well.

testan something