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For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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The Lord is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the Lord is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?

File: 49d0d9ef326768c⋯.jpeg (14.55 KB, 236x322, 118:161, clay.jpeg)

6cb07b  No.719383

I asked a pastor but didn't get a response. Anthropologically, speaking, Christianity isn't the oldest religion (Or Judaism, not in the modern sense but the pre-Christ religion of God sense), despite the religion's god being responsible for the creation of mankind.

I understand other religions could branch off from preChristianity and morph through distance and the lack of a solidified church stucture, but I don't see anything to suggest God ever just stopped communicating with humanity for a huge gap between Adam and modern humans, so why isn't the Christian God a constant in human worship for all of recorded history?

Or is He, and I'm just not aware? I know the Proto-Semetic people have been worshiping in some way or another since ancient times, but animism seems to predate their worship.

bfc892  No.719384

>>719383

Are we talking about secular anthropology?


e6ba7b  No.719386

>Open up Bible

>Read first verse

>In the beginning


6cb07b  No.719387

>>719386

I know that. My question is why aren’t there older archaeological findings of worship to that specific god, since in Christianity God communicated with Mankind from the start. I know the Bible acknowledges other religions exist and doesn’t get into when exactly they started to exist.

>>719384

I suppose


b5f349  No.719390

File: 460058431db19a6⋯.png (1.3 MB, 1440x1080, 4:3, 1465125517422.png)

>>719383

>Or is He, and I'm just not aware?

You're not aware.People will call me a filthy gnostic even though i subscribe 100% to christianity but here we go.

Consider Hinduism. We believe it's the biggest and oldest polytheist religion in the world and in a way… that is true, but it wasn't the case during the origins.

If you read closely the Rig Veda and other sacred books of Hinduism you realize that

There is Brahman. The one and supreme God.

Brahman has attributes. The attributes aren't separated gods like we believe but… "specialization" akin to our Trinity.

So Brahma/Vishnu/Shiva aren't separated gods, they are still Brahman, but Brahma who appears under a special aspect.

Brahman who create the world = Brahma

Brahman who saves/conserve the world = Vishnu

Brahman who transform/destroy = Shiva

And from those three, you can specialize them ad infinitum but THEY ARE STILL THE ONE BRAHMAN

And all "polytheistics" religions are actually like this, and there are a lot of interesting parallels to be drawn once you realize the """gods""" aren't gods but symbols of the divine.

However, human as fallen, so they've lost this knowledge and added their own rules, creating the "pagan" religions we know to this day. This is why GOD has chosen the jews to keep His truth sacred.

TL;DR Pagan religions were monotheistic but have degenerated towards idolatry and nature/human worship. God has chosen the jews to keep His truth pure in a world of fallen humans… And CHRIST have come to save everyone, the ultimate truth as it was in the beginning, free from all corruption.


b5f349  No.719391

>>719390

humans have fallen*


238a42  No.719392

>>719390

What's your stance on Buddhism and its relation to Hinduism?


b5f349  No.719401

>>719392

Buddhism emerged from Hinduism and, like christianity emerged from judaism, it was an attempt to restore religion as it was back then… A human attempt but an attempt nonetheless, whereas christianity was GOD coming to earth to restore His message.

Buddhism basically says :

"Too much gods, so let's erase them all

and concentrate on karma, charity, good works, fighting passions, etc" that

That being said, Hinduism and Buddhism aren"t that different from one another if you study them both closely, it's simply the "package" that changes, so to speak,


238a42  No.719412

File: 7d8d401cfcc51ca⋯.png (82.35 KB, 160x242, 80:121, CoolJay.png)


8fe3bf  No.719447

>>719390

Thanks for your posts, that was very informative. I did not know just how far back the roots of Hinduism ran.

It does make me wonder just how far back it goes, considering one of my questions is how to reconcile religion and man as a product of evolution, but even “modern” man dated back to prehistory and there would not be surviving archaeological evidence of Adam, for example.


fa878d  No.719479

>>719390

There's also the Hiranyagarbha mentioned in Rig Veda 10.121.


f43420  No.719482

because it would trigger the Jewish, godless secularists


e58bc6  No.719486

>>719482

Christianity couldn’t possibly care if it offended atheists, and there are surely Christian anthropologists


b5f349  No.719488

File: 42eddf7aa80685f⋯.jpg (87.07 KB, 500x657, 500:657, Hildegarde - the universe.jpg)

>>719479

>There's also the Hiranyagarbha mentioned in Rig Veda 10.121.

This is actually very intersting. Hiranyagarbha is an "avatar" of Vishnu (Brahma who preserves the wortld) and is typically depicted as a "golden egg", the heart of the universe…

Why am I saying this? Because Hildegarde of Bingen (a saint from the XIIth century, in one of her many visions saw the universe as a "golden egg" protected by God, and she drew it. Pic related.

That alone proves there was more to ancient religions than nature worship. It might have degenerated by some of their truth is still accessible.

This is why the catholic church had no problem using ancient "pagan" symbolism during the middle ages (christmas being the most obvious one).

Paganism is wrong and idolatry but a truth stays a truth, even if people forgot and defigured it.


d2980c  No.719489

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

I, know i already made a thread for this, but this may actually help you some. As this helped me a lot regarding Pagan Faiths. And also on their metaphysical outlooks on life. So far, this is the only full article i know of where, C.S Lewis touches on Pre Christian faiths in a more full detail; but they may be out there. Finding Works of C.S Lewis, is like finding a hidden gem that so many people have forgotten about it seems.


f43420  No.719491

File: bd8e6d21949e574⋯.jpg (937.32 KB, 989x5094, 989:5094, 1525882211967.jpg)

>>719486

>Christianity couldn’t possibly care if it offended atheists

Oh, oh, sorry I cannot think of a Christian who wouldn't walk on eggshells, so to not avoid offend atheist and try to keep the conversation going. Keep in mind that the majority of church leaders and theologists at universities are consistently trying get approval from secular university/millennials & zoomers which effects their apologetics.

And don't get me started on the dispensationalists


d2980c  No.719495

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>719489

Err, Excuse me wrong vid. This is the one. but the other is also necessary. This, is the big one. And contains the part where lewis touches on the pagan faiths. But they're both very educating.


bfc892  No.719497

>>719486

>there are surely Christian anthropologists

And they are ignored for wrongthink.


313106  No.719567

>>719390

Hindus have Dyaus Pita while Greeks and Romans have Zeus and Jupiter.

The Greeks also had the concept of Theos which came to be used by translators and authors of scripture.


6cb07b  No.719945

>>719488

This is also interesting.


915647  No.721073

It is, people worshipped the living God before Abraham, but it wasn't organised as Judaism before then.


bfc892  No.721078

>>721073

It’s interesting that Neanderthals and Cro-Magnons sprinkled their dead with red ochre, possibly representing blood.


2b09b1  No.724044

>>719387

>My question is why aren’t there older archaeological findings of worship to that specific god, since in Christianity God communicated with Mankind from the start.

Well firstly, bear in mind that most of them date their finds as they're taught by the evolutionary model. If you read "This site dates to…", do not EVER take that number at face value. Look into how it was determined and what assumptions the daters were making. You will always find a smattering of evolutionary thought.

That said, there are some examples of cultures that worshiped the true God. The very ancient Chinese appear to be one, worshiping him under the name ShangTi at first.

The Karen Tribe in Burma is another. They worshiped YHWH, and had an oral version of the Biblical account up until the dispersion of the nations. Once Christianity did come, they recognized it as being the rest.

An anthropological study of the Karen people here: https://books.google.com/books?id=4SsMAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA211 discusses their indigenous religious views: "The third conception in the religious traditions of the people is embodies in the 'Y'wa' legend, which tells of the placing of the first parents in the garden by 'Y'wa,', the Creator; their temptation to eat of the forbidden fruit by a serpent or dragon, etc…Were the "Y'wa' legend marked by distinctive features, we might regard it as one exhibiting only a general resemblance to other traditions extant in other parts of the world, but its parallelism with the account in Genesis precludes this view of the case…

The contrast between the animistic and the Y'wa conception of the creation of the world is illustrated in the lines of the following 'hta' or poem:…'When first the earth was formed,/It was…Y'wa who formed it'……Characterization of Y'wa as the Eternal One is herewith given in two translations from an ancient poem…'Y'wa is eternal, he alone [existed] before the world was made…The life of Y'wa is endless…Y'wa is perfect in every meritorious attribute, And dies not in succession on succession of worlds'"…Besides being called eternal, [Y'wa] is described as 'all powerful' and as 'having the knowledge of all things.' He created man and 'woman from a rib of man,' and he made the animals and placed them on the earth."

And so on. I encourage you to read that chapter: it goes on to discuss their accounts of the first two people being tempted by the serpent to eat forbidden fruit, death coming into the world on account of that, and so on.

It concludes "There can be no doubt but that the above legend…has been largely responsible for the readiness with which the Karen people have accepted Christianity".

So that's a strong example of one culture that did this.


471777  No.724049

File: be77164d14e51b5⋯.png (19.02 KB, 800x800, 1:1, bible.png)

>>719383

OP, of course Judaism isn't the "oldest religion," just as much as Christianity isn't the "oldest religion." Before Judaism, what do you think existed? Read about King Jobab (Book of Job) and see how he worshipped God. What about Noah? What about Adam and Eve? Who do you think taught Cain and Abel to offer burnt sacrifices to God? The problem with your way of thinking is you're looking for a list of rules to follow mindlessly, instead of worshipping God in Spirit and in Truth. God looks at the heart. Christianity is the newest covenant God established with mankind through the fulfillment of the Messianic prophecies laid out in the Old Testament. Jesus Christ is the Messiah and He is the way, the truth and the life.

I suggest you read the Bible literally cover-to-cover. If you did, the answers and doubts you have would already be answered. God bless OP.


620365  No.724374

File: e2f95a548dcf037⋯.jpg (27.16 KB, 352x499, 352:499, 517KM1hLMJL._SX350_BO1,204….jpg)

>>719390

>Pagan religions were monotheistic but have degenerated towards idolatry and nature/human worship

This. Winfried Corduan goes into this in his book 'neighbouring faiths: a christian introduction to world religions'


2c28cf  No.724376


620365  No.724378

>>724376

noice, will go on my list. Corduan's one only deals with the local early religions/animism in one of the first chapters and no isn''t a whole book about the idea for (other's) info.


9d2188  No.724425

>>719390

Consider also the Mesopotamian religion. Anu was the highest god, but by the time of the written records his worship had been largely superseded by lesser entities who were seen as more approachable.


62e0de  No.724430

Christianity is the oldest one, because that's the actual religion that god envisioned with ancient Israel


969224  No.724439

File: e76e9e00be5f6ec⋯.jpg (246.65 KB, 621x792, 69:88, wormwhole.jpg)

>>719488

Symbols are science, not paganism. And you are right that traditions worldwide knew a lot more than we can ever imagine. What did the indigenous people of Africa and America know, before their artefacts and books were destroyed, robbed? What is being lost in the Iraq and Syria right now? What was lost in China's great leap forward, or during the Christening of Europe? All of this points to a consistent war on terror/terra(the feminine, and sacred knowledge) aimed at maintaining the severe ignorance among human beings.


ecbb69  No.724457

File: 73b620e3939746d⋯.jpg (86.47 KB, 705x703, 705:703, 84d8092a.jpg)

>>719383

tfw OP answers his own question

>I don't see anything to suggest God ever just stopped communicating with humanity for a huge gap between Adam and modern humans, so why isn't the Christian God a constant in human worship for all of recorded history?

>so why isn't the Christian God a constant in human worship for all of recorded history?

>for all of recorded history?

>recorded

I

Humans have only gotten into that whole writing thing and writing on long-term mediums for a few thousand words … y'know, a few years before Abram.

II

What records do we have of other gods being worshiped, OP? They wouldn't be little shrines and statuettes and temples and things like that, would they? Y'know, the VERY THINGS God told His followers not to get into?

III

The Book of Job is said to be pre-Abram which kinda undermines the lack of worship theory.

VI

What this guy says >>719390 and I'll throw in Shang-Di, the Chinese equivalent, and endorse anon's statement that:

>Pagan religions were monotheistic but have degenerated towards idolatry and nature/human worship

I very much believe this.

Our ancient-most ancestors knew of the Lord, but a slow and progressive rejection of Him over generations – because their deeds were evil – lead to worshiping forests, lightning, the sun, and all manner of other things that frightened them or they knew they depended on.

So you see, OP, God has always been around.


ecbb69  No.724459

>>724457

ffs

>a few thousand words years

… obviously …


07a410  No.724483

File: e97861d39899a61⋯.jpg (196.53 KB, 500x452, 125:113, moth light.jpg)

>>719488

>This is why the catholic church had no problem using ancient "pagan" symbolism during the middle ages (christmas being the most obvious one).

This post is not in a reply to you, specifically, but more an elaboration of why this has been so, for the benefit of those who do not know the Church's stance and who confuse matters by not seeing certain distinctions.

The reason the Church has seen no problem with this is because what is wrong with paganism is its nature worship, not its use of symbols, which can always be appropriated and given a new use and meaning, a dynamic that exactly describes what the Church has done to make the process of conversion more agreeable for new followers from these religions. It also stands to reason that there is nothing particularly offensive about symbols as such, considering they find for their source the one true God.

The genuine moral concerns for these uses seem to fall to the areas of suitability and scandal. Take, for example, the Cross of St. Peter, a completely Christian symbol, which through the years has received a decidedly opposite meaning from its original, and would no doubt, given the current state of the Church, be considered unwise, at least, to suddenly give it any distinction within the Church.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_of_Saint_Peter


ecbb69  No.724484

File: 13ec713ec19af34⋯.pdf (4.8 MB, The Karen People of Burma.pdf)

>>724044

Since no one here wants to blow monies on a 1922 book …

http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks08/0800061h.html


046244  No.724485

>>724374

can you give us some idea of the contents of this book?


49a557  No.724501

>>719383

Christianity as an organized religion is not the oldest

Not even the Israelite religion is the oldest

In the beginning there was no need due to the direct connection to God. After severing that connection, many other religions sprang up as they came to worship other deities.

Who knows what the oldest is


046244  No.724505

>>724501

According to St. Augustine Christianity has always existed, but in other forms and by other names.


321d7d  No.724521

>>719390

IE Pagan religions didn't suffer a polytheistic devolution. The notion of Deus was the by-product of the personification of Numina. The idea of Gods and Goddesses was not in the beginning and is a degeneration of the prior knowledge of forces and their manipulation, the further degeneration of these ancient pantheons and the rites surrounding them leading to the inevitable disconnect from the supranatural.


1a6c35  No.725594

All the false religions came from Babylon from the Tower of Babel.


8c31c3  No.725662

>>719401

>Christianity emerged from Judaism

Man, prots are some legit morons


63bcb2  No.725677

>>725662

He's clearly talking about Temple Judaism, you buffoon. Can you contain your vitriol for even a second?


201107  No.726831

File: 4c36bcd3fc01a2d⋯.jpg (633.41 KB, 1836x3264, 9:16, 1541936643996.jpg)

File: f3d39c072e5f397⋯.jpg (574.92 KB, 1836x3264, 9:16, 1541936667616.jpg)

File: e47bfe1543cda73⋯.jpg (634.81 KB, 1836x3264, 9:16, 1541936676979.jpg)

File: 669e32eed0c5314⋯.jpg (2.15 MB, 1836x3264, 9:16, 20181111_113849.jpg)

>>724485

>can you give us some idea of the contents of this book?

Can go one better than some ideas m8

It goes into the concepts and beliefs, worship practices and rituals of each of the faiths and makes sure to make a distinction between the 'high' theologian's take and how any particular faith is practiced by regular folk on the ground. I haven't read it all yet though.


201107  No.726844

File: dcd7b904118da66⋯.jpg (694.94 KB, 1836x3264, 9:16, 1541936694151.jpg)

File: 6a55a2711d0b459⋯.jpg (563.37 KB, 1836x3264, 9:16, 1541936700178.jpg)

>>724376 also just realised Schmidt's book is referenced in the intro in pic related


279e3b  No.731217

>>719383

Christianity is the oldest of Abrahamic religions. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Jews no longer have a temple or priesthood. The old Israel is dead. Their rabbinic and talmudic replacement came after Christianity, and it barely believes in the old scriptures at that. It gives the Talmud more value.


2c28cf  No.731956

>>726844

Interesting, glad he included Schmidt. I would hope someone takes a closer look at what exactly what processes they used to dismantle Schmidt's theory and why are they are no longer applicable.


a8aca2  No.733816

>>719383

Brainlet question, why the XII on the image


1a645f  No.733819




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