Salvation and works

Email
Comment *
File	Select/drop/paste files here
Password	(Randomized for file and post deletion; you may also set your own.)
* = required field	[▶ Show post options & limits] Confused? See the FAQ.

Embed	(replaces files and can be used instead)
Options	Do not bump (you can also write sage in the email field) Spoiler images (this replaces the thumbnails of your images with question marks)
Allowed file types:jpg, jpeg, gif, png, webm, mp4, pdf Max filesize is 16 MB. Max image dimensions are 15000 x 15000. You may upload 5 per post.

Salvation and works Christanon 10/07/18 (Sun) 20:05:24 c2fcf8 No.711258

Can you please help me understand the following idea, regarding salvation not coming through works?

In 12 Rules for Life, Dr. Peterson writes “The Christian doctrine elevated the individual soul, placing slave and master and commoner and nobleman alike on the same metaphysical footing, rendering them equal before God and the law. Christianity insisted that even the king was only one among many. For something so contrary to all apparent evidence to find footing, the idea that worldly power and prominence were indicators of God’s particular favor had to be radically de-emphasized. This was partly accomplished through the strange Christian insistence that salvation could not be obtained through effort of worth—through “works.” (Page 186).

He cites Ephesians 2:8-2:9 and Roman’s 9:15-9:16.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

https://www.biblegateway.com/landing/francis-chan/?utm_source=bg&utm_medium=alert&utm_campaign=alert_francischan1004

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+9%3A15-16&version=KJV

Christanon 10/07/18 (Sun) 20:25:30 031414 No.711272

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>711258

Christanon 10/07/18 (Sun) 23:46:33 0dcfb6 No.711353

>>711258

It's exactly as you read it.

Be wary of people who will mis-cite the Epistle of James.

In it, the reader learns that after someone is saved by their faith, they will be compelled, not of themselves, but through the Holy Ghost, to bring forth good works. Works are not needed to go to Heaven, but Christians are expected to do good works out of our love of God who saved us, as a sort of reciprocation.

Christanon 10/08/18 (Mon) 00:23:56 ae2572 No.711368

>>711258

Your first mistake is reading Jordan Peterson.

>>711353

No catholic (or any one else) believes that we are even saved through faith and works even. We are saved by grace through faith, that's the catholic position. Faith is a free gift from God and so is salvation.

If you think OSAS is true though you're just crazy.

Christanon 10/08/18 (Mon) 00:35:15 653d15 No.711376

Paul is concerned with how people get into the New Covenant in those letters. Scholars agree that Paul teaches that there will be judgement by works, which is why he can admonish sinful behaviour and speak of walking in the Spirit.

What Paul sees works as are that which is Divinely enabled, rather than outside of it. So if you dont struggle against sin or live life as if works matter not, you go against those verses by forsaking that which enables you.

Christanon 10/08/18 (Mon) 00:42:35 653d15 No.711383

>>711353

This is a false reading of James. Because he literally says a dead faith which isnt even faith at all, cannot Save him. So by definition, works is necessary for Final Vindication and thus, necessary for Salvation if you are able.

Even worse, James is addressing those who are Saved. So this further show us why one cannot take it as you do

Christanon 10/08/18 (Mon) 17:47:44 c2fcf8 No.711778

Op here. I'm even more confused now.

Christanon 10/08/18 (Mon) 17:58:48 68e2f9 No.711780

test

Christanon 10/08/18 (Mon) 19:06:16 11ccca No.711796

>>711778

Be Christian -> do good things -> go to heaven

Be Christian -> don't do good things -> don't go to heaven

It isn't

Do good things -> Go to heaven

Christanon 10/08/18 (Mon) 19:09:51 170fb4 No.711798

>>711258

>Getting your Christianity from Juden Peterstein

It's such a shame real Christians are either silent or deplatformed. So much many young Christians are just mislabeled jews due to lack of real Christian knowledge.

Christanon 10/08/18 (Mon) 19:17:10 ae2572 No.711801

>>711798

>Juden Peterstein

The one time he could have stood up for a brother in Christ regarding Brett Kavanaugh is when he threw him under the bus. It's rich coming from Peterstein when he himself said he had been falsely accused of sexual assault multiple times. This man is a crypto-juden-gnostic trying to take children thirsty for Christ and mangle it into some jewngian gnostic nonsense. He should be deplatformed and exposed.

Christanon 10/08/18 (Mon) 19:18:06 ae2572 No.711802

>>711798

actually one better is we should try and recruit some people from his fanbase. They may find our vibe on christianity a bit refreshing.

Christanon 10/08/18 (Mon) 19:36:24 f8897e No.711808

File: 0c0da4a9444d40a⋯.png (593.62 KB, 1024x640, 8:5, d91e25217ee1e83bb25422bc00….png)

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c3a2.htm

Faith is what leads you to salvation. Works are a result of a true faith.

You can not gain your own salvation by your works only, you can not even merit the forgivance of one single grave sin by works only.

Even if you would dedicate your whole life to helping others, spreading the Gospel, improving yourself etc etc but for some reason reject Jesus' sacrifice and God's truth and think that your actions are good enough to give you eternal life then you are wrong and will not be saved.

If you say you are a Christian and believe in God, but live a life full of sin, you are not repenting and are hurting others etc then it's a sign that your faith is false and dead.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

>Matthew 7:16-20

So basically:

>Salvation comes through faith

>Works, while theoretically not strictly neccessary, are a natural result of a true living faith

This is the Catholic opinion. You can read it worded better, more accurately and in detail in the catechism. Don't let strawmanning protestants tell you otherwise.

Christanon 10/08/18 (Mon) 21:08:21 0dcfb6 No.711840

>>711808

I’m glad there’s some people in the RCC who don’t believe world are needed for salvation. But this isn’t the official doctrine of the church, or else every RC up to you has been lying to me or ignorant of their own religion.

Christanon 10/08/18 (Mon) 21:08:40 0dcfb6 No.711841

>>711840

Works*. Not “world”

Christanon 10/08/18 (Mon) 22:35:05 ad1e64 No.711874

>>711840

It's not either/or, faith and works are opposite sides of a coin. If you believe Jesus is lord, but continue to live unrepentantly sinfully, what does that say about your faith, which by all means should reduce you to fear and trembling and shape the entire way you live?

>Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven

The strength of one's faith is known only to them and God, but actively carrying out God's will is a pretty foolproof way to know you're doing well.

Christanon 10/08/18 (Mon) 22:50:35 91a994 No.711879

File: eb1e4db5d9c65cd⋯.jpeg (226.56 KB, 786x3099, 262:1033, dd9aa5f77a13dd5354a9cec69….jpeg)

Christanon 10/08/18 (Mon) 22:52:14 15c41c No.711880

The way I understand it is if your faith is true and alive and on God you will be compelled to do good works not as in you have to but you will desire to.

Christanon 10/08/18 (Mon) 22:57:35 0dcfb6 No.711882

>>711879

Uhh uhh you’re missing the Church tradition!

Christanon 10/09/18 (Tue) 14:02:30 c2d20e No.712220

>>711879

So if God said something once it doesn't count?

Christanon 10/09/18 (Tue) 14:09:48 bd3278 No.712221

File: 3996130cdb0aa85⋯.jpg (28.04 KB, 460x332, 115:83, 3996130cdb0aa8515103009313….jpg)

>>711258

>1234567

>eat da poo 'n' pray then go to heaven

Christanon 10/09/18 (Tue) 14:33:01 f8897e No.712229

>>711840

>But this isn’t the official doctrine of the church

It literally is. Read the link I posted. If people told you otherwise then they were uninformed or you didn't understand them.

To me this is a simple concept so I don't get why we have this thread like every 2 days. I think I'm just going to copypaste my post every time a new one appears.