/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

By Orthodox understanding, heaven and hell are states of soul, not dimensions, realms or places.

>I personally sometimes believe that hell is simply nonexistence, that those who do not accept our Lord's gift of eternal life simply fall into nothingness.

no

>If there are no negative feelings in heaven, how can you feel positively about friends and family that are being tortured for eternity?

very primitive. You are in eternal communion with heavenly father,. everything else will be of secondary concern.

>I do not take pleasure in imagining even my worst enemies suffer for eternity. Our God is merciful

oh, how merciful to EXTERMINATE and ANNIHILATE beings made in his image and likeness. this is not mercy. thats disgusting. But As I said, Orthodoxy and now, judging by catechism and announcements of several popes at least, Catholicism says that Heaven and Hell, are states of souls, that depends on attitude of an individual towards God and his infinite love. As sun melts wax, but hardens clay, so does love of God brings joy to saint but rage to damned.

Whatever the case may be, God is omni-benevolent and desires good and only goodfor his children, mankind. so reject the ann*hilationist garbage.

>>586084

>By Orthodox understanding

By some Orthodox theologists, not all of them.

>>586085

>not all of them.

True, but it remains the most popular one and is also returning in the west too.

>>586084

> Heaven and Hell, are states of souls, that depends on attitude of an individual towards God and his infinite love

So if I love God and accept his love, I will be in heaven regardless?

This also doesn't answer why, if hell is eternal death, God is only God of the living.

Bear in mind that Our Lord was talking to Sadducees at Mk 12:27 who, like modern materialists, didn't believe in a soul, resurrection etc. The point He is making is that the soul does exist, and is immortal, and as such God is still Lord over it, regardless of whether it is just or wicked.

>I personally sometimes believe that hell is simply nonexistence, that those who do not accept our Lord's gift of eternal life simply fall into nothingness.

This is a kind of annihilationism which states that God just gives wicked souls a kind of "mercy killing". To put it in worldly terms, they get out easy.

>If there are no negative feelings in heaven, how can you feel positively about friends and family that are being tortured for eternity?

Partly because you realise, with the true perspective of a soul in heaven, that everything on earth was only a pale shadow, and that those "friends" actually had little in common with you at all. Plus, the sheer joy at being with God will either make you forget about them, or just wish that they took the chance that you did.

To be honest I think a lot of speculation about what hell/damnation consists of, feels like, looks like, etc. is beside the point. We shouldn't really care what it's like, other than to know it is a firm rejection of the Lord, and which will separate us from His love, which is the total opposite of what we should be striving for. Seek first the Kingdom.

>>586090

>So if I love God and accept his love, I will be in heaven regardless?

Through this is severely oversimplified, yes.

>This also doesn't answer why, if hell is eternal death, God is only God of the living.

death doesn't mean cessation of existence, but rather separation/rejection/rebellion against God.

>>586088

>returning

It has to have been here before to be returning

>>586074

The historical context of that is the Sadducees, who believed death is followed by non-existence and that there is no resurrection. By saying God is not God of the dead, He is in fact saying no one ceases to exist. In reality sinners deserve eternal torment and God is in fact unjust if He does not give them what they merit.

>>586074

>If our God is God of only the living, and hell is eternal death, what is to be said about hell? That it needs no ruler?

No, the lake of fire is eternal death and not hell. Read revelation 20:14-15

>And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

>And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

You see physical death is temporary, not eternal. As Jesus came back from the dead and so did lazuras in john 11. There are even christians who come back from hell according to luke 16:22-31 and 1 peter 3:20. But no one ever comes back from the lake of fire.

>how can you feel positively about friends and family that are being tortured for eternity?

First off not everyone has the 1 corinthians 15:44 due to ecclesasties 3:18-21 and romans 2:28-29

Second see matthew 13:47-50

>Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.

>But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?

>And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

>For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Oh great. He came and began shitting in the thread. It was good while it lasted. [-]

>>586091

>soul is immortal I stopped reading after this

Revelation 16:3

>And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and itbecame as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died inthe sea.

>>586101

Also see romans 9:15, don't think that justifies pre-destination to hell or heaven though. As romans 9:25-27 can only be referring to 1 corinthians 15:44 due to galatians 4:22-31 and 1 corinthians 15:38

>>586099

Explain how quoting those verses is "shitting up the thread".

>>586100

>every living soul

<How do I gigures of speech?

>>586106

See Memes 13:37, Apostle Brennan basically wrote a whole epistle about how you're a shitposter but a guy that "memorizes the book" doesn't remember his words.

Try harder.

>>586084

I've never understood the reasoning behind this. If Heaven and hell are the same place, why are the damned often described in the Bible as being cast away from God or thrown into the outer darkness, etc.?

I've also heard there is some sort of belief in Orthodoxy that before Judgement Day, a damned soul can somehow be prayed out of Hades. How is this reconciled with the impassible "great chasm" between Abraham's Bosom and torment in Luke 16:26?

>>586106

>Explain how quoting those verses is "shitting up the thread".

You have literally not quoted a single verse. The power is in the word of God, not in numbers that designate subsections and sentences.

>>586119

<memes 13:37

>another gospel not in the Bible, the post

galatians 1:6-12

>I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

>Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

>But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

>As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

>For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

>But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

>For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Life's what you make it

The verse in question was addressed to the Sadducees, who believed in no afterlife. IIRC, the verse was Jesus basically cutting through their BS and getting straight to the point, saying that there is an after life, and even those who have died yet live awaiting judgement.

>>586139

Not sure if 80s pop or ccm