/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>575178

They're Ok, I guess. Their ancestors didn't subvert to pisslam, so thats a big plus for them in my eyes.

Pretty heavily heretical since their canon is hilariously broad

>>575178

They're fine. They have some cool traditions.

>>575180

I wouldn't classify them as heretical, but yeah their canon is pretty weird.

>>575185

Are they the "we wuz the keepers of the Ark" Church?

>>575185

>I wouldn't classify them as heretical

m8 they've literally added to scripture

>>575178

I think they're good Apostolic Christians. I think they were converted by the Syrians, who are the oldest Christians. Also, I think their only doctrinal difference from Catholics and the Orthodox is miaphysitism.

>>575178

>mon*physites

>>575199

>implying protestants haven't messed with scripture.

>>575209

bbut anon, when protestants do it it's fine, it's tooootally different, like totally

>>575206

Some of them are og converted jews and animists.

Some of their conversions from the The Syriac Nine Saints and Sadqan missionaries.

A part of it is due to coptic blessing of St. Atanasius, and with his church they have a close relationship to this day.

>>575215

Well they're okay in my book, they have the sacraments, they have the sacramental priesthood, etc. Correct me if I'm wrong. I feel the same about the Orthodox, popes say you're heretics and schismatics, but I still think that have as much chance to be saved as any Catholic. I think all Churches of the Apostolic tradition should unite already to counter the real heretics that are the protestants from converting the unsuspecting Chinese and the poor in South America.

>>575212

>>575209

>>575214

Protestants didn't add to scripture, though. Took stuff OUT, yes, but they didn't add to it.

>>575222

Potatoes, potatos or whatever, anon.You get the point.

>>575178

There is a popular book among Orthodox called "Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy" by Fr Andrew S Damick. It compares Orthodoxy with almost every faith in the world, Christian and Non-Christians, and even the most obscure faiths.

Conspicuously absent from the book is anything about the Ethiopians. The maim reason is because anyone who knows the real life of that church knows they are a lot closer to folk animism and they have no lived comprehension of Christian theology. Fr Andrew decided not to touch that can of worms with a 10ft pole lest he be embroiled in a scandal criticizing/exposing how backwards and ridiculous African Christians are.

>>575237

It's the same with many "Muslim" nations in Africa: syncretism combining local superstitions and folk magic with Islam.

>>575237

>backwards and ridiculous African Christians are.

Eh, it's a big problem, even with Catholics. I'm not sure about liturgical rules and overall discipline being enforced. I mean, look at what's happening right under the pope's nose, now imagine what's it like in Africa.

Based esthetics

Beautiful liturgies

Heretical as fuck - they agree to the soul-destroying heresies of Dioscorus and Severus

I hope they come back to the Church somday

We have a Coptic family at our parish, and an Ethiopian family too. They're nice.

>>575237

The bizarro syncretism crap is in rural areas. In areas where the bishops have solid control, they're doing fine.

>>575221

>syncretism

boi

Be obedient to your own bishop or convert to another faith.

Your own faith disagrees with you, and excommunicates you for doing so.

>>575260

If you want to speak about doctrine, post v2 doctrine teaches that even protestants can be saved. So I'm not uttering heresy when I say the Orthodox have good chances to be saved, especially since you have valid sacraments and don't die mired in mortal sins like protestants do.

As for syncretism, I think all that Catholic/Orthodox differences are mainly political, if not contrarian, in nature. They are certainly quite petty. and most certainly not pleasing to God.

>>575264

Vatican II says nothing of the sort. Lumen gentum changes its tone from previous documents like Unam sanctam, but doesn't actually contradict it. The point is simply that even if it is a damning sin to not be in the Church, ultimately God alone decides who is saved and who is not, and it is possible that people outside the Church were saved (indeed, you have saints in certain Catholic calendars who were not in communion with the Church at the time). But how and when this reconciliation happens is a mystery, and it does not change that you must obey to the Church's dogma to be saved. It's not that you can be saved aside from the Church. That there is no salvation outside the Church is basically the one thing all Church Fathers could agree on. But simply, Vatican II recognizes that the charismatic boundaries of the Church are wider than her canonical boundaries. Having valid sacraments certainly doesn't mean that they save.

Either cease to misread the documents of Vatican II or become an Anglican, since you seem to be advocating a form of branch theory. We're not one big family. It's a distressing fact, but all the more a reason to end those schisms that tear us apart today. But these schisms are very real, and the mutual anathemas have real weight.

>>575264

>If you want to speak about doctrine, post v2 doctrine teaches that even protestants can be saved

Even Buddhists can be saved in the context of invincible ignorance if they obey the Law written in their hearts, so what?

As long as they love Jesus and uphold the morals, that's all that counts.

>>575266

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000806_dominus-iesus_en.html

Read points 16 and 17. I deliberately said post V2 because things such as the above came afterwards.

>“Therefore, these separated Churches and communities as such, though we believe they suffer from defects, have by no means been deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Catholic Church”.66

>>575268

I should've been more specific, JP2 said Christ doesn't deny salvation to the efforts of protestants churches, effort being the crucial word here.

>>575271

What does "means of salvation" mean?

Boy the Vatican sure has bought into marketing speech, very sad

>>575276

Eh, maybe this passage from the document is clearer:

>The Churches which, while not existing in perfect communion with the Catholic Church, remain united to her by means of the closest bonds, that is, by apostolic succession and a valid Eucharist, are true particular Churches.59 Therefore, the Church of Christ is present and operative also in these Churches, even though they lack full communion with the Catholic Church, since they do not accept the Catholic doctrine of the Primacy, which, according to the will of God, the Bishop of Rome objectively has and exercises over the entire Church

The above is basically what I said earlier, in full accordance with papa teaching, as this proves.

>>575277

>prots

>apostolic succession

>valid eucharist

Boy you're not very good at this

>>575279

I wasn't talking about prots, sorry I misunderstood you. Here's about prots:

>On the other hand, the ecclesial communities which have not preserved the valid Episcopate and the genuine and integral substance of the Eucharistic mystery,61 are not Churches in the proper sense; however, those who are baptized in these communities are, by Baptism, incorporated in Christ and thus are in a certain communion, albeit imperfect, with the Church.62 Baptism in fact tends per se toward the full development of life in Christ, through the integral profession of faith, the Eucharist, and full communion in the Church.63

>>575269

Here's your (You)

>>575280

There is literally nothing objectionable in that paragraph, just a lot of weasel words and marketing speech

>>575283

Well it's certainly opening the doors when it comes to protestant salvation, the Church never wrote anything like this before. There was never a notion of a perfect and imperfect communion either. So all in all, it's a significant development.

Also, read Ut unum sint, again, this is a sharp turn when it comes to protestants, the pope even said that saints come from all Christian groups

http://w2.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_25051995_ut-unum-sint.html

It is very ambiguous speech, it's actually a point of great contention. I personally do not think it's good but hey, what can you do.

>>575288

I agree that we're not in a good situation but we haven't fallen into formal heresy yet. Yet.

>>575199

>Oldest bible

>REEEEE THEY ADDED TO SCRIPTURE NOW GET THOSE FILTHY BOOKS OUT OF MY BIBLE WHICH DESCENDED FROM HEAVEN IN THE 17TH CENTURY

>>575237

>The maim reason is because anyone who knows the real life of that church knows they are a lot closer to folk animism and they have no lived comprehension of Christian theology.

Any good sources or discussions on this.