/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

Target the source. Fight to stop the overprescription of opioids.

I have no idea what to do about existing addicts.

Addicts are not innocent victims. Treating them like they are is part of the problem. They bought the ticket. One way or another, they bought the ticket.

Drug addiction is a self-cleaning oven. You mention fentanyl like it's a problem instead of a solution. Unfortunately fresh people just keep getting fed into the oven, including the actually innocent people who have to live around addicts and gangs.

Some countries are so far gone that the only way to recover them would be instituting martial law, declaring all dealers, gangsters, and customers outlaws that can be killed with impunity by anyone, and deploying death squads working in coordination with police to kill them in public executions. The problem would be solved in a few years. Go Medieval. It's messy but so is a narcostate.

I saw my hometown destroyed by drugs and gangsters competing over access to the US market. I watched a half dozen people I knew in high school kill themselves with drugs. One guy got shot in the back of his car. One got hacked to death with a machete. One ended up in a mental hospital. No tears. They all bought their tickets. They all decided to feed their blood to this machine so that it might better devour others.

If you kick drugs and repent fine. You're no longer a threat. The state should be concerned with criminal gangs becoming more powerful than it. If they have to resort to frontier justice to restore law and order that's within the scope of their powers. Thankfully most countries aren't that bad off yet, but they're just exporting the worst of the problem to other countries anyway.

Of course the powers behind the throne want the poor as weak, stupid, and miserable as possible, so drugs are a good thing as far as they're concerned.

>>571255

>>571680

Murder is a sin.

>>571687

Killing in war is not murder.

>>571687

Killing drug dealers is not murder so whatever I guess?

>>571687

The state declaring outlaws is not a new practice. Where do you think the word outlaw comes from? What do you think it means? Killing outlaws is by definition lawful killing, and not murder. Likewise, agents of the state carrying out summary executions is by definition not murder.

>>571688

If it is a war, then the addicted are victims of war, not soldiers. You specifically said:

>>571680

>declaring all dealers, gangsters, and customers outlaws that can be killed with impunity by anyone

And agree with that policy.

Also:

>If you kick drugs and repent fine.

If you murder them with impunity, how can they repent?

Murder is a sin.

>>571690

>declaring outlaws

So, we should kill everyone who gets a parking ticket?

>>571690

If you want to shoot people and get away with it, become a cop in a black neighborhood. You'll get on the news and you'll be twitter famous, but you'll never go to prison.

>>571692

Killing in war is not murder. Addicts are not victims. They are perpetrators. Are the civilians working in factories to supply an enemy country with the guns they use to kill your soldiers off limits from your bombers because you consider them "victims of war"?

Summary executions by state agents are not murder. Calling things sins that are not sins is a sin.

>>571693

Outlaw is not a synonym of criminal. The technical legal definition is someone the authorities have declared beyond the protection of law.

>>571694

Thanks, Reddit.

>>571696

That sounds like an awful lot of excuses to "kill everyone I don't like". God is Love. Stop making excuses for hate.

>>571688

Not a just war. They're victims of actual criminals, not expendable trash.

>>571696

>Are the civilians working in factories … off limits

YES! Civilians are off limits. Just because you get to blow them up in Call of Duty doesn't mean you get to blow them up in real life.

>>571680

We should be striving to reduce the amount of harm caused by addiction. An important part of this is helping those who are addicted and bringing them back into society. Simply culling off a section of the population because they've made poor decisions is not the solution. When people have the right support networks in place, the destructive blow that drug addiction has on communities and families is reduced, and in certain communities where sobriety is cherished there is almost no such impact.

Everyone has made mistakes, and everyone has sinned; for this reason we offer them assistance and salvation respectively. Redemption is an essential aspect of Christianity regardless of denomination. I know that there are many parts of my country that have been adversely affected by drugs, but these are also the same parts that have lost their connection to God and let the sin of drunkenness infect them. The people I have met that have the strongest aversions to the use of intoxicants have almost invariably been pious Christians or similarly religious-minded people, and so it does not surprise me that many who are not inclined towards sobriety and moderation are exactly the opposite.

>>571696

Am I a perpetrator of slavery for the fact that my clothes are made by sweatshop workers in China, or that my support of my country's military makes me a supporter of endless wars in the Middle East by proxy? This is a false equivalency, just as you say that factory workers are accomplices in the genocide. They are working because they must; a cursory glance at history will tell you enough about the laboring of well-to-do people for nefarious purposes; most are blameless.

>>571702

>>571699

>>571697

None of these are actual arguments.

Extrajudicial executions by state agents are by definition not murder.

Just war theory is theoretical and has never been practiced by any state in history during any war.

Just war theory calls to minimize civilian casualties not to eliminate them altogether. There are situations where civilians are legitimate targets in war by any standard including just war theory. Such as when civilians are supplying the enemy with material aid.

Addicts ARE criminals.

Go back to Reddit.

>>571707

>my support of my country's military makes me a supporter of endless wars in the Middle East by proxy?

Even a broken clock is right once in a blue moon apparently

>>571709

>Extrajudicial executions by state agents are by definition not murder.

Yes, it is murder. It may not be legally murder, but it is the unlawful killing of a person. The death penalty needs to be abolished entirely. All men are to come to Christ, but you rob them of that chance when you kill them.

>>571709

>Addicts ARE criminals.

Liquor is legal. So is nicotine and caffeine and sugar, all highly addictive substances. You gonna run around shooting everyone enjoying a latte?

>>571707

You're basically riding into an Old West town in a limousine, seeing the streets littered with corpses, and the sheriff holding the members of the gang responsible at gunpoint, then flipping out, grabbing the gun from the sheriff's hand, and screeching, "NO! JUST BUILD A MODERN SUPERMAX PRISON WHERE THEY CAN BE REHABILITATED YOU HATER!" then hopping back in your limo and riding off into the sunset. Thanks, hero.

>>571709

Looks like someone's been reading the wrong book. Put down the Qur'an, friend.

>>571712

The Bible nor any real church teaches that the death penalty is wrong under all circumstances. This is your opinion, and it's wrong.

>>571713

We're talking about illegal substances. Do you have autism?

>>571715

That's rather disingenuous to suggest that I'm somehow unaffected by the issue; like you, I know people that I went to high school with are in prison, dead, or otherwise crippled by drug addiction. Few of them were friends, but there's no doubt that the loss of their faculties, or even their lives, has had profound effects on their friends and families.

Dysfunction begets dysfunction. If oppression of innocent people is the cost of solving our drug problems, then what will be the solution of our martial law? Violence and peace do not transfer well from one to the other, which is why the tough decisions require careful deliberation and planning before they are executed. This war on drugs has been fought for nearly 40 years to a null effect; something new must be done.

>>571719

Legality has nothing to do with what he's talking about. He's talking about the unrest that comes from droves of broken and lost people feeding into a system that exploits others and exacerbates societal problems. Sex addicts do the same through the spreading of venereal disease, scam artists and charlatans do it through cheating and conning people, murders do it through…etc.

>>571215

ask durerte (joke)

>>571233

exactly. basically you have to extract them from the social niche so they wont relapse, because habits die hard. I wonder if it could work also for fapping addiction.

>>571723

You said yourself that you're American. No, you aren't effected. No, America isn't one of the countries I'm talking about where martial law is the only solution left. You actually have the money and resources for things like rehab programs and actual law enforcement and courts and prisons. Those options aren't on the table for the third world countries your drug habit has destroyed, spoiled pig.

>>571712

Pick up a dictionary any time

>>571723

Legality has everything to do with what I'm talking about. I don't give a damn what false equivalence you and he want to cling to. You aren't logical.

>>571732

And yet curiously I haven't suggested the use of any of those things. I suggested that we have communities lead by either pious Christians or well-to-do moral figures that work towards bringing people affected by the drug wars and helping them recover through productive alternatives.

>>571735

Legality is only a small part of the argument simply because alcohol exists. It is sanctioned for consumption by the state and yet it's addiction has caused similar levels of suffering for the public. This is why I'm not arguing from that side, I'm arguing from the side of assisting those who need help in battling their addictions through a system that is more likely to stick. If you can strengthen a community against addiction, it is less likely to be devastated by it.

>>571709

>Anyone I don't like isn't saved and should die

Go back to /pol/ or /r9k/ or whatever hole you crawled out of

>>571738

Unfortunately not everyone on earth is a good Christian. The narcos already have their own religions. Thanks for tossing a tract out the back window, though.

Liquor stores aren't funding organized crime (unless they're fronts) and aren't the primary income of the third world drug cartels we're talking about so your point is moot.

>>571760

Authorized agents of the state in certain countries already undergoing destabilization declaring martial law and extrajudicially killing criminals who commit the crime of purchasing illegal substances on the black market (and therefore directly funding criminal organizations so powerful that they threaten the sovereignty of these states) is not the same as killing everyone I dislike. So go back to gradeschool and learn how to read the words in front of you before you spout another hysterical strawman. Recognizing the fact that addicts are the support base of the drug cartels does not mean I personally dislike or hate addicts. If you want to win a war against an enemy the best way is to take out their support base. I don't hate Japanese people, but I recognize that strategic bombings ended World War II.

The sinfulness of buying illegal drugs isn't up for debate. You know it's a sin. So is stealing and robbing to afford your fix. So is killing people during robberies. So is working for a criminal organization in exchange for drugs.

But the relevant point isn't that these are sins. It's that they're crimes. Crimes are under the jurisdiction of the secular authorities. Sovereigns have the right to punish crimes against their law how they deem necessary. Some sovereigns are engaged in civil wars against narcos that would require martial law and extrajudicial executions to win. Letting the wars drag on forever ending in defeat and the establishment of narcostates will cost more lives than martial law ultimately.

The enforcement of the law and the protection of state sovereignty does not imply any judgment on the souls of the individuals killed by the state. I'm sure that a good many souls have been saved on death rows. I'm sure that a good many Christians died in the terror bombings of civilians during World War II. Unfortunately states have to have more material concerns on their minds when it comes to such situations.

I like drug addicts. They're chill. We should kill Chads and carreerists instead.

>>572072

hello fellow christian.