/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>554067

> Matthew 24

>"The Day and Hour Unknown"

“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

>>554068

The Bible should be interpreted in its historical context, not later theological thought. For example, the Book of Daniel was written from 170-164 B.C by a pseudonymous author caught in the middle of the Maccabean revolt; Daniel was probably a legendary figure that didn't even exist. The "prophecies" in Daniel are accurate as to what happened during the revolt and the situations surrounding Antiochus IV up until the events describing his death and the extension of the war which suggest that the prophecies in Daniel 8 and 11 were written before these events and failed to come true. We see similar things in Ezekiel and Jeremiah.

>>554070

"Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened." (Matthew 24:34)

>>554074

>generation

The word "generation" there in Greek is γενεα (genea), which can also refer to a family, stock, nation. (Strongs, definition 2b) The NASB also has a footnote here next to "generation" saying "Or race"

Another form of the same word, γενος, is used in 1 Peter 2:9 where the KJV says "But ye are a chosen generation…" and the NASB, NRSV, ESV, pretty much all the modern translations, say "But you are a chosen race…"

Matthew 16:28 Mark 9:1 Luke 9:27 ["here be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God"].

^ while these are about the coming of the kingdom in the form of the establishment of the church on Pentecost, whereas Matthew 24:34 is about the end of the world. And so I believe they are speaking about different groups of people. You will notice also that these other verses don't use the word "generation."

>>554079

Nope, I agree with rational human beings. Genetic fallacy based off of some kind of ad hominem, not an argument faggot.

>>554079

Also, Jews wrote most of the Bible, retard. Have fun hating the group of people that your Lord and his early follower belonged to.

>>554067

Repent before the lake of fire draws ne'er

>>554083

No argument I see.

>>554084

The Bible, which is known to be 100% disproven, always puts forth the strongest of arguments!

>>554085

>bait

>>554086

100% not disproven, I mean, as it is the true word of God

>>554088

>>554086

Then give me a valid argument based on logic, reason, and facts with verifiable sources.

>>554081

Okay let's evaluate what scholars say about Daniel. They say Daniel (at least the ending chapters) was during the Maccabean revolt, but if the author was supposedly written during the 6th-5th century (because of the other characters and cultures within the books) why place it in the 2nd century. Their response because what the books writes resembles too closely the the events that happen in the 2nd century-in other words, in the scholars perspective if something happen as "prophecy" it must have been written after the events. So even if Daniel was written 3 centuries earlier, the scholars still have to categorize the "prophecy" after the events occur, because of the commitment against supernaturalism.

Why do you think they place the Gospels after the destruction of the temple?

>>554082

>Pharisaic Jews today is the same 2500 years ago

The blue pill wasn't might to be eaten, goyim.

>>554090

You're basing your entire argument off of the presumption that the supernatural exist which history can neither validate nor invalidate only to the extent where it goes beyond measure, because of this, historians and scholars have to do their best to interpret history from the most logical and straightforward approach based off of good evidence that is well regarded.

Anyway, I did state above that there were prophecies the author of Daniel did write before they happened, the only problem is that they never happened, yet before we get accurate information about the reign of Antiochus IV and the situations he faced up until the author tries to predict his death and also tries to predict a war between Egypt and Syria which never happened.

>>554093

I'm a Deist.

>>554094

OH boy…

>>554096

Pantheistic Deist to be specific.

>>554097

>Pantheistic

>Deist

I know you're trying to get a rise out of us but this thought saddens me to no end

>>554098

Do you by any chance have a valid argument that proves the Biblical prophecies or refutes mainstream academic scholarship? Or are you just going to resort to /pol/ memes?

>>554101

I'm on the shitter and I thought I'd comment on these posts because I'm trying to entertain myself. If you want help there's thousands of Christian sites who can help you; if you don't find this one receptive to your plight you can try a different one.

>>554082

There is a major difference between the Hebrew people and Ashkenazim-Khazar jews. Sure, the Hebrew people killed Jesus, but they are the not the infamous supremacists of today.

>>554074

The generation that lives in the tribulation times will not pass until all those things have happened. He was not talking about the people listening to Him at that time.

>>554092

>You're basing your entire argument off of the presumption that the supernatural exist

And you're basing your entire argument off the presumption that the supernatural doesn't exist, even though all evidence points to Daniel being written in the 6th century B.C .

http://www.spiritandtruth.org/teaching/documents/articles/34/34.htm?x=x

>>554217

Uhm…Human and Godly natures? hello?

>>554215

No dipshit, did you not read the rest?

>history can neither validate nor invalidate [the supernatural] only to the extent where it goes beyond measure

Here is a REAL source on the book: https://books.google.ca/books?id=9r_Zs7T1nCMC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

>>554216

How come you guys only like Biblical scholarship when it agrees with your beliefs, but when it doesn't you resort to /pol/ memes and become all asshurt?

>>554287

Because the mods refuse to cleanse this board of /pol/ filth, allowing them to stay and fester like a sore, spreading cancer to every thread until people just shrug and say, "I guess /christian/ culture is /pol/ culture, so I better fit in" instead of fighting it and demanding a proper Christian board.

>>554078

/thread

>>554082

Or the group of people who tried to kill Him, killed His followers, and blaspheme Him to this day.

Also, why is a thread which was made just so the OP could call people "retard" and "dipshit" still up?

>>554285

1 Maccabees 11 fulfills Daniel 11.

>>554290

Or maybe it's just you.

>>554217

The same way the Son was forsaken by the Father on the cross, and the same way the Son asked the Father to remove the cup from Him. Git gud or >>>/out/

>>554215

Every single worldview requires the existence of the supernatural, retard, even "naturalism." The genesis of the universe requires that something was created from nothing - this is supernatural; nature doesn't work that way. Biogenesis requires that the inorganic created the organic with the mechanisms of life and DNA - this is supernatural.

>>554504

>The same way the Son was forsaken by the Father on the cross, and the same way the Son asked the Father to remove the cup from Him

>implying there was disharmony in the Godhead

>>554551

>disharmony in the Godhead

>implying Jesus asking the Father in his dual nature of Man-God to remove the cup from Him because his human nature resists it but takes the cup anyway through the power of God is somehow proof of disharmony in the Godhead

>implying this is not proof that there is complete harmony within the Godhead

The book is alright

your understanding of book is wrong op

>>554067

You're absolutely right anon. As an ex-christian I can say studying what academics have to say about the bible really opened my eyes.

>>554078

>>554292

>Another form of the same word, γενος, is used in 1 Peter 2:9 where the KJV says "But ye are a chosen generation…" and the NASB, NRSV, ESV, pretty much all the modern translations, say "But you are a chosen race…"

If that's the case, why don't all these bible translations have "race" in Matthew 24 too? They don't because generation fits within the context. You are just changing the meaning of words because it's convenient to your cause.

>^ while these are about the coming of the kingdom in the form of the establishment of the church on Pentecost,

"For the Son of Man is to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay everyone for what has been done. "

Did Jesus judge every men on pentecost?

The belief that Jesus would bring the end of the world soon is all over the New Testament:

"But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none;" (1 Corinthians 7:29)

"For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven… Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds…" (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17)

"God…Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son…" (Hebrews 1:1-2)

"For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry."

(Hebrews 10:37)

"But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer."

(1 Peter 4:7)

"Christ…was manifest in these last times for you,…" (1 Peter 1:19-20)

"Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord… stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh…behold, the judge standeth before the door." (James 5:7-9)

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass;…" (Revelation 1:1)

"Behold, I come quickly." (Revelation 3:11)

"And he said unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand… He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus." (Revelation 22:10, 20)

"But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come."

(Matthew 10:22-23)

Jesus said there that his second coming would occur WHILE his apostles were preaching in the cities of Israel!

In the following three verses, Jesus says that the generation living at the time would experience his second coming.

"So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done." (Mark 13:29-30)

"So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled." (Luke 21:31-32)

"So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." (Matthew 24:33-34)

>>554216

(((everyone that isn't a christian fundamentalist is a jew)))

>>554220

>>554691

le convenient dual nature, when Jesus is all good he is God, when Jesus suddenly lack knowledge it's just his "human nature". Ok.

>>554691

>remove the cup from Him

This prayer was for the Father to take the cup of His wrath away from the saints through Jesus. It's the opposite of what you think it means

>his human nature resists it

Nestorius pls, Jesus was sinless

>>554832

>The belief that Jesus would bring the end of the world soon is all over the New Testament:

2 Peter 3:7-9

But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

>In the following three verses, Jesus says that the generation living at the time would experience his second coming.

Like previously said, "this generation" refers specifically to the saved people to whom he was speaking, as we are likewise called "a chosen generation" in 2 Peter 2:9. Not the wicked generation of the world at that time nor some arbitrary timeframe of one lifespan. "This generation" is the people he's speaking to.

>"For the Son of Man is to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay everyone for what has been done. "

And why are you quoting Matthew 16:27 here?