/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>549465

Everyone should just imitate Jesus, the Son of God, once they've been redeemed.

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Shit thread.

>>549465

>21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord, shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him, in whom they have not believed?

Thus Christ says, Faith Alone is not salvific

>John 6

<Being Baptist, aka one who does not believe when Christ says that eating his flesh is necessary

<Useing this to prove his point

lmao

You know what is will of Father? Repentance.

3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that you should abstain from fornication;

4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour:

5 Not in the passion of lust, like the Gentiles that know not God:

6 And that no man overreach, nor circumvent his brother in business: because the Lord is the avenger of all these things, as we have told you before, and have testified.

7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto sanctification.

8 Therefore, he that despiseth these things, despiseth not man, but God, who also hath given his holy Spirit in us.

You know what is will of Father? Works

They gave their own selves first to the Lord, then to us by the will of God

Understanding what is the will of God.

5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your lords according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in the simplicity of your heart, as to Christ:

6 Not serving to the eye, as it were pleasing men, but, as the servants of Christ doing the will of God from the heart,

7 With a good will serving, as to the Lord, and not to men.

15 For so is the will of God, that by doing well you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

16 As free, and not as making liberty a cloak for malice, but as the servants of God.

19 Wherefore let them also that suffer according to the will of God, commend their souls in good deeds to the faithful Creator.

>in b4 James 2

And if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

And now there remain faith, hope, and charity, these three: but the greatest of these is charity.

For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision: but faith that worketh by charity.

>>549631

>Thus Christ says, Faith Alone is not salvific

How? That literally says it's faith alone but to call on him you have to believe and not LARPing

>You know what is will of Father? Repentance.

No. That is "The will of God" Not "The will of the Father". God can be one of three people and Jesus specifically said "Father" in those. Also that one you posted never siad anything about faith so then that would mean non-believers could be saved.

>And if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

Nothing about being saved

>And now there remain faith, hope, and charity, these three: but the greatest of these is charity.

Nothing about being saved

>For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision: but faith that worketh by charity.

Nothing about being saved

Notice none of those say anything about being saved. Because it's like James 2 it's commanding you to do works yes but it doesn't mean you have to, to be saved.

Also Jesus literally says "he that believeth on me" and bothing of works

John 6:47

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

Just posting another verse without explaining this one just makes it seem like you think it contradicts.

>>549637

> Notice none of those say anything about being saved. Because it's like James 2 it's commanding you to do works yes but it doesn't mean you have to, to be saved

How on Earth do you explain Matthew 25:31-46 then?

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

>>549647

Saved people do good deeds. It doesn't say they were saved by those good deeds.

>>549651

I agree that works don’t save, however someone who is saved/being saved will do works. Someone cannot claim to be saved and yet do no works.

>>549653

But it is true that "do works yes but it doesn't mean you have to, to be saved". You do works because you're saved, not to become saved.

>>549637

>How? That literally says it's faith alone but to call on him you have to believe and not LARPing

NOONE can call upon Lord without Faith. Paul is clear about it. One have to do will of Father to have salvific faith. Works as prooven above.

>No. That is "The will of God" Not "The will of the Father". God can be one of three people and Jesus specifically said "Father" in those. Also that one you posted never siad anything about faith so then that would mean non-believers could be saved.

You do know that when apostles speak about God they mean Father? "I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord" There are like dozen times when Christ is called God but it's always clear from context, like one times in Romans 9:5

Also, Trinity have but one will. Son does not will contrary to Spirit, Spirit contrary to Father and Father contrary to Son. Unity in Trinity is eternal and perfect. Christ have two wills, one of them Human but even this is united with his divine will.

And notice, that I never said that faith is not necessary for salvation. I only said what Christ said - Faith alone does not save.

>Nothing about being saved

It literally says that Faith without Charity makes you nothing.

>Nothing about being saved

It literally says that Charity is above Faith.

>Nothing about being saved

It literally says that only Faith with Charity anvaileth in Christ.

>Notice none of those say anything about being saved. Because it's like James 2 it's commanding you to do works yes but it doesn't mean you have to, to be saved.

They literally do. As well as James 2, which I bring up not, but since you inististing

14 What shall it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but hath not works? Shall faith be able to save him?

''15 And if a brother or sister be naked, and want daily food:

16 And one of you say to them: Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; yet give them not those things that are necessary for the body, what shall it profit?''

17 So faith also, if it have not works, is dead in itself.

18 But some man will say: Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without works; and I will shew thee, by works, my faith.

19 Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou, that faith did co-operate with his works; and by works faith was made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled, saying: Abraham believed God, and it was reputed to him to justice, and he was called the friend of God.

24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?

25 And in like manner also Rahab the harlot, was not she justified by works, receiving the messengers, and sending them out another way?

26 For even as the body without the spirit is dead; so also faith without works is dead.

Which is to understood with this:

41 Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels.

42 For I was hungry, and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me not to drink.

43 I was a stranger, and you took me not in: naked, and you covered me not: sick and in prison, and you did not visit me.

44 Then they also shall answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to thee?

45 Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me.

46 And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.

>John 6:47

<Being Protestant, aka one who does not believe when Christ says that eating his flesh is necessary

<Useing this to prove his point

lmao

>Just posting another verse without explaining this one just makes it seem like you think it contradicts.

John 6:52 If any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever; and the bread that I will give, is my flesh, for the life of the world.

John 6:54 Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you.

John 6:55 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day.

This is explanation. You boast about faith yet you have not faith for If thou had faith you would believe but only those who Father draws believe for many are called but few are chosen

>>549647

>but the righteous into life eternal.

Romans 4:5

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Also that's from a more unclear story. And I think Jesus even said he tried to make them unclear around the mid of Matthew

>>549665

>NOONE can call upon Lord without Faith. Paul is clear about it. One have to do will of Father to have salvific faith. Works as prooven above.

It says if you call upon the Lord you're saved but you have to just believe in him first. That's faith alone.

>You do know that when apostles speak about God they mean Father? "I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord"

Jesus specifically said the "Father's will" in Matthew 7 and John 6 not "God's will"

>They literally do. As well as James 2, which I bring up not, but since you inististing

Watch the video in the OP post

>John 6:52 If any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever; and the bread that I will give, is my flesh, for the life of the world.

>John 6:54 Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you.

>John 6:55 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day.

If that was all literal then that woukd mean all you have to do is communion once and your saved forever and don't need any works or even faith.

>lmao

Not an argument

Also there's more than just John 6

John

1

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

3

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

4

14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

5

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

7

38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

8

24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

11

25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

12

46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

14

1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

16

27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

20

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

>>549745

> Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness

Works don’t justify, but a person who is justified will do works, such as helping the poor. We don’t need to do works in order to receive grace, but a person touched by grace will do God’s will.

> Also that's from a more unclear story. And I think Jesus even said he tried to make them unclear around the mid of Matthew

If you can’t interpret this “unclear story”, then maybe your own antinomian beliefs are very shaky.

>Works don’t justify, but a person who is justified will do works, such as helping the poor. We don’t need to do works in order to receive grace, but a person touched by grace will do God’s will.

Tbey mist likely will but it says " But to him that worketh not" so at least a few don't

>If you can’t interpret this “unclear story”, then maybe your own antinomian beliefs are very shaky.

He says "me" a lit so maybe it's about accepting Jesus but there are much more clear verses that just say you only need to believe to be saved.

>>549896

>so at least a few don't

No, they all do. 1 John 2:3

>>549899

Later in 1 John he says the commandment is to believe on Christ and love your brother. Also people that just got saved haven't done any

>>549910

>Later in 1 John he says the commandment is to believe on Christ and love your brother.

This word is plural, not singular, and the context of it is how to know who your bother is, not how you are saved.

>Also people that just got saved haven't done any

People who just got saved have the desire to do good and given the opportunity they will.