/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>532073

Christ's ministry in the heavenly sanctuary.

Nothing happened.

>>532073

what indeed, OP. what indeed.

If /pol/ figures out when the apocalypse will occur, you can rest assured that the rapture will not occur then.

Surprisingly enough, God was right again when He said that only He knows the hour.

>>532073

I might've taken a shower that day, I don't remember.

Remember, remember, the 23rd of September

The day in which nothing happened

>>532073

Rapture happened. Welcome to the Left Behind.

>>532110

Why must reddit post here? Why did fools here try to advertise on reddit?

>>532112

What does that post have to do with reddit?

>>532110

>It sounds so medieval

<The Great Middle Ages of Theology and Light of Reason

<Anyone believing in "Damnation is about disbelief only xdd"

"No."

>>532110

medieval?

oh it's much more primitive than that

God by definition of being the sole subsistent Being, is the sole source and arbiter of Morality - everything He does is Right, and anything antithetical to God's will can only be Wrong

and since God is also the sole source of life - for He is Life - then anyone that rebels against The Eternal God is choosing Eternal Death

moreover, God is infinite in His every attribute, so God is infinitely and eternally Angry or Wrathful against that which is Wrong - His infinite hatred for Sin having no end

so no, this isn't merely 'medieval' as you think it; we're in Blood for the Blood God territory

and no man is capable of shedding enough blood to appease Him

>>532110

It's simple because you're making "belief" a simple light switch that can be turned off or on, either light or dark. It's rather something more akin to a doorway, that allows entry or prevents it, and even that doesn't come close to encapsulating it.

Ultimately your hang-up comes from a lack of understanding related to what Christian belief really entails in terms of effect on the faithful.

>>532134

God is God, and denying the validity of the Old Testament is denying the Trinity. Marcionists aren't allowed to post here.

>>532134

>At least try to explain yourself

No one before Luther belived "Sola Fide". Simple facts.

>>532134

Also, to touch on what you said, God never contradicts Himself, despite what you may have heard. Further, Christ is the fulfillment of the Old Covenant. He is the perfect culmination of what the Old Covenant stood for and the realization of thousands of years of prefigurement.

>>532110

>Anyone think the whole 'Those who believed are saved,'

That's what Jesus said

Mark 16:16

"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever doesn't believe will be condemned."

>>532134

>It doesn't sound very… nice.

It's not about being nice, it's about Truth.

>>532137

Faith and belief, I know they cant be switched off like a light and is an inherently strong makeup of a religious person. I just dont get why it's allowed, why somone having this faith makes them enter eternal peace for accepting/bowing their heads, compared to someone who doesn't, is the latter a rebel perhaps? A rebel against what? And why should their lack of faith in Him mean inevitable damnation. Do you understand my issue?

Marcionism isn't what I'm relating to, although, the philosophy behind OT God being naughty is similar to my complaints in relation to the legality of "eternal damnation".

I'm not denying The Lord of the OT nor the Trinity of which I strongly believe, I'm arguing for answers as to why the OT Lord expects people to come and be faithful when threatened with destruction, which I feel is a very humanistic ideal - even though it's writing in a form within the bible. Am I confusing anyone? Are my questions legit?

>>532138

My explanation of 'Non believer = Hell' is Lutherian? What's your point here? I'm not too familiar with this part of Lutheranism

>>532139

>God never contradicts Himself, despite what you may have heard.

But is there explanation for why His personality changes from OT to NT? You cannot deny that OT's Lord is an unforgiving and to some people, a cruel, unforgiving one.

>>532144

>Mark 16:16

And I'm questioning the reasoning for this as its such an overly assertive thing for a Lord who is so loving.

>>532134

<Thinking the Old and New Testaments don't go hand in hand

The Old testament points to Jesus. It prophesied Him. accordingtothescriptures.org/prophecy/353prophecies

The Bible is a complete package with both Testaments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZsZLDWWZMs

<I'm not arguing, just debating on why such a theological standing exists

>(James 4:5-8 KJV) 5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? 6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. 7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

>(2 Corinthians 12:20-21 KJV) 20 For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults: 21 And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.

There's a spiritual war going on right now, If someone seeks God they'll find Him, and you'll also find what manner of spirits you've been listening to up to that point.

Here are some videos giving an overview of the spiritual war:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fKrFeX8dRY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5wbmiaib6o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc_J2k4Cdp8 (4:40 - 17:35)

>(Matthew 7:7 KJV) 7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

When you look, you'll find Jesus and the Record God holds:

>(1 John 5:4-6 KJV) 4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? 6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

>(1 John 5:10-11 KJV) 10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

>>532146

>Mark 16:16

Well you said "I'd rather inspire to be more like Jesus" and then you reject what he said? That does not make damn sense.

>>532113

It expresses the pathetic views that are typical for plebbit. Let me cherry pick some.

>>532110

>Anyone think the whole 'Those who believed are saved,' and 'Those who didn't believe' are not saved'. It's not even based on those who were good people vs bad people, it's just, "Believe what X says or you'll burn forever". It sounds so medieval and psychologically

Thats a funny way of spelling "Apostle John got a vision of the End times from God as a gift. Maybe while on shrooms(1)". No, the Revelation of St. John has been written in the late 1st Century, is therefore not Medieval. Something like a middle age was totally alien to mankind at that time. It wasn't furthermore not informed by a humanist philosophy that hasn't even emerged before the 12 centuries later.

>"welp, you're lost. See ya!".

Goonspeak. If you are neither your 40s and nor from Something Awful, you have no business speaking that literal meme language. I think this about covers why we think you are some spastic from plebbit. Users like this person is the reason why /v/, /a/ and other older boards never advertise on that hellhole.

(1) Psychodelics can get you closer to God or scare you away from him. This is why some Catholics suggest a general confession before doing these

sage, because this about meta and not about false end of the world no° 10340853046570239*e^7865

>>532148

More like Jesus in that of his good will and peacefulness. And I'm not denying what's written in Mark, I'm asking why it's written. Why must people have this faith, or else. It's the urgency of this needed faith that's troubling me, not that it is needed. I agree, it is needed. But it's urgency and threatening of its denial is why I'm asking questions.

>>532147

>(James 4:5-8 KJV) 5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? 6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. 7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

>(2 Corinthians 12:20-21 KJV) 20 For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults: 21 And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.

I love this. But i'm not questioning it's authoritativeness. Refer to my comment above as to why i'm asking for answers.

Those YT vids scream Pastor Anderson-like mindset/Christianity on steroids so i'm not going to listen to them, but I feel that the Holy Spirit found me, more so than I found the Spirit.

I just have a lot of questions but I feel most of them will be found when I finally go through the Bible properly.

Thanks for the concern though.

>>532149

Get a hold of yourself, Urkel. I'm trying to find a genuine answer to what my just be a dumb question and you're going off about Website wars.

My Medieval comment was about the thinking behind "Believe or burn" , not the Biblical origins. Get your head out of your ass

>>532150

Learn to speak right; lurk more before posting.

>>532153

Learn to explain your motives right; lurk before sageing.

>>532150

>Get a hold of yourself, Urkel.

More goonspeak? People asked why people called you plebbit and I have pointed out what reeks like plebbit.

>My Medieval comment was about the thinking behind "Believe or burn" , not the Biblical origins.

So do you think you can literally fight the devil with a chain whip or that your head literally starts to burn as soon you acquire the Holy spirit? The burning means getting thrown into Hell that has been prepared for the Evil One and his angels, not you. I have seen a lot of such literalism in anime and Japanese vidya about the supernatural and it starts to worry me. I reject that by the way.

>>532157

Word your Question better then? People have already given you good sources to research. On the question why you need faith to become a better person and therefor fulfill law and thus getting closer to God: Nonchristians can generously give alms, be loving, not steal nor covert other people posession, they could stop killing, and could fast, but what they can't do is resisting Lust. This problem has made some Christians martyrs for chastity. Another thing they can't do is getting the "funky" idea that all human life has value, because it is an Icon of God, therefor Holy and they are therefore souls to be lead by Throne and Altar (Christian Monarchy) or souls that have certain rights given by God. Faith matters.

Another thing: You come here with a decorum that is ayylien to image boards and now you want to rule? You don't get rule! Be grateful that we don't insult you and shitpost you to dead like /a/ does and Just go away with sperging out.

>>532150

>Why must people have this faith, or else.

Because God is actively keeping everything alive and He is not obligated to continue doing so. I don't take my life for granted, I received life from Him and by the same right He could take it back if He chose to. You are not really self-sufficient. All God would have to do is stop supplying life to a person who decided not to accept His gift, because he's not obligated to keep doing this indefinitely. Rather, you would have to explain why God is required to keep giving forever to those who rejected him and all the things they received from Him throughout life. See what I'm saying?

>>532163

Also THIS.

>>532146

>is the latter a rebel perhaps? A rebel against what? And why should their lack of faith in Him mean inevitable damnation. Do you understand my issue?

This comes from a misunderstanding of sin. From a purely cultural standpoint we're encouraged to think of sins as "cookie in the cookie jar" actions. Things we want to do that have little to no negative effect on us, but are forbidden from us for some arbitrary reason. I'm going to try to explain why that's not true in the most concise way I can.

God is good. This is easy enough to say, but part of the nuance of this statement is that God is goodness in and of itself. From God, goodness has meaning; all goodness comes from Him and is ultimately derived from Him. God made everything that exists, all things we can and cannot see both in the material universe and outside of it. Because God is good, he made creation to be like Himself – also fundamentally good. In that way, creation is called "very good" in Genesis and men were created in the "image and likeness" of the Creator. But again, when I say good, it hearkens back to goodness, which is really more a state of Godliness.

Despite our inherent goodness, God gave all intelligent creatures free will to rebel against Him do that which is not good, or evil (forgive me, Calvinists). The fallen cherub Satan was the first to exercise this right of free will – in his case, out of pride and desire to usurp God. Satan won over a chunk of creation to his side by painting sin as something inherently worthy of merit (good). However, sin literally means "missing the mark." It means falling short of God's will for us by opposing the goodness he made us to be. Opposition to absolute goodness, to God Himself; this is sin. Sinful actions, in truth, impart no benefit to us whatsoever, only extreme and existential harm. Any gain they give us is an illusion, meant to lure us away from the reality of the situation. Sinful actions are like powerful radiation kept in a cookie jar. Opening the lid does nothing but give you cancer. However, because of Satan's deception and ongoing pettiness, sin is everywhere in the world because it's made to look good when it's (by definition) not. The ungodly is made to seem godly, opposition from the wellspring of creation made to look healthy.

For the sake of brevity, I can sum up one of the main points of Christ's earthly ministry by saying that He promised eternal life to those who had faith in Him. There's nuance to this, in that following Scripture/Church teachings and participating in the sacraments allows the Holy Spirit to dwell within us, changing a fundamental part of our being and allowing the temporal to participate in eternity. But more to the point, part of this belief entails following His commands to abstain from sinful actions and believing that they are sinful.

In the Old Covenant, atoning for sin was a long and painful process of sacrificing and elaborate ritual, since it is the very real process of washing your being clean to return to its original state. Under the New Covenant, God has made this process infinitely easier in that it primarily hinges upon our faith. A faithful person tries to abstain from sin and live a holy life, as God asks us to. A sinful life is one in rebellion from God's inherent goodness, a life in slavery to evil and pointless servitude to Satan. Faith is what we need to live, the hinge on which we either rebel or don't. That's why a faithless life is one that brings a person to damnation, because it is sinful, and in that rebellion, and in that rebellion from absolute goodness. And being absolutely good, absolutely godly, God cannot abide by sin, the absolutely ungodly.

>>532146

>But is there explanation for why His personality changes from OT to NT? You cannot deny that OT's Lord is an unforgiving and to some people, a cruel, unforgiving one.

I can deny this, and rightly so, but I will admit that there's an illusion of cruelty that can be given off through His interactions with the Israelites in the Old Testament. This relates directly to the people he was dealing with, the culture and values of people that put more emphasis on the strength of the god they worshipped than on 'being good people' like we do today.

Many people are scandalized by this and I respect your strength of will for having doubts but not giving up your faith. If you're interested in this, I found Fr. Thomas Hopko's talks on this to be very informative.

http://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/hopko/scandal_and_the_old_testament_part_1

There are lots of hilarious videos on YT right now in the aftermath. The sooth sayers are setting different dates (today or tomorrow are popular ones), and still accusing their critics of being "scoffers"

>>532163

I understand this way of discourse. It makes sense. I accept this as an argument and valid answer to my question but I feel there's more answers (like this) to the same question also. As if there's more than one sole reasoning.

I wish I could know them all or find some guidance.

>>532166

>Sinful actions, in truth, impart no benefit to us whatsoever, only extreme and existential harm. Any gain they give us is an illusion, meant to lure us away from the reality of the situation.

This is very true.

I appreciate your post, it really helps me to understand this whole subject a bit better.

>>532167

Thanks, i'll give this a listen.

There's quite a bit I am unsure of in the scriptures and the culture of the church but somethings telling me I NEED to not be wavered and wonder off. I just really want to understand these things and find an understanding and logic behind these things.

>>532150

<why somone having this faith makes them enter eternal peace for accepting/bowing their heads, compared to someone who doesn't, is the latter a rebel perhaps?

It's a matter of what spirit you follow. The group of three videos in my last post expound on it greatly. Sorry for the long wall of text, it needs to be 3 posts.

The bible says we're body, soul and spirit.

>(1 Thessalonians 5:23 KJV) And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The soul is subject to the spiritual.

>(Romans 13:1 KJV) 1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

>(John 4:24 KJV) 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

There is the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

>(1 John 4:6-7 KJV) 6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. 7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

>(Galatians 5:22-23 KJV) 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

>(Ephesians 2:2 KJV) 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Satan is the spirit of error

>(Job 1:7 KJV) 7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

>(Matthew 16:21-23 KJV) 21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. 22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. 23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

>>532193

The spirit we follow is counseled with our heart.

>(2 Corinthians 4:18 KJV) 18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

>(Proverbs 1:5-6 KJV) 5 A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels: 6 To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings.

>(Proverbs 20:5 KJV) 5 Counsel in the heart of man is like deep water; but a man of understanding will draw it out.

If you don't want to counsel with God in your heart, then Satan and the fallen angels are eager to take that place.

>(Psalm 81:10-12 KJV) 10 I am the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt: open thy mouth wide, and I will fill it. 11 But my people would not hearken to my voice; and Israel would none of me. 12 So I gave them up unto their own hearts' lust: and they walked in their own counsels.

>(1 Peter 5:8 KJV) 8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

We're given armour for a reason.

>(Ephesians 6:11-12 KJV)11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

>(Isaiah 30:1-2 KJV) 1 Woe to the rebellious children, saith the Lord, that take counsel, but not of me; and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit, that they may add sin to sin: 2 That walk to go down into Egypt, and have not asked at my mouth; to strengthen themselves in the strength of Pharaoh, and to trust in the shadow of Egypt!

Satan had a whole system set up before the flood

>(Ezekiel 31:3 KJV) 3 Behold, the Assyrian was a cedar in Lebanon with fair branches, and with a shadowing shroud, and of an high stature; and his top was among the thick boughs.

>(Ezekiel 31:6-9 KJV) All the fowls of heaven made their nests in his boughs, and under his branches did all the beasts of the field bring forth their young, and under his shadow dwelt all great nations. Thus was he fair in his greatness, in the length of his branches: for his root was by great waters. The cedars in the garden of God could not hide him: the fir trees were not like his boughs, and the chestnut trees were not like his branches; nor any tree in the garden of God was like unto him in his beauty. I have made him fair by the multitude of his branches: so that all the trees of Eden, that were in the garden of God, envied him.

>(Ezekiel 31:16-17 KJV) I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth. They also went down into hell with him unto them that be slain with the sword; and they that were his arm, that dwelt under his shadow in the midst of the heathen.

>>532195

In the end, the counsels of the hearts will be manifested.

>(1 Corinthians 4:5 KJV) Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

God wants us to live good, godly lives with God.

>(Isaiah 42:5-7 KJV) 5 Thus saith God the Lord, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

>(Ezekiel 36:27 KJV) 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

>(John 14:15 KJV) 15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

>(John 14:21 KJV) 21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

>(Romans 8:1 KJV) 1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

To tie this all together.

>(John 8:31-36 KJV) 31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? 34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. 35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. 36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

>>532077

No one got my joke :(

Well, here you go! The new date is in 2024 and it's the Revelation 15 sign that's the real sign guyz!

September 24th happened.

>>532499

I think it's September 24 2024.Kind of easy to confuse because the guy throws out so many numbers and he thinks all of them are important.

I'm still not sure why Jesus *has* to return during a Jewish holiday feast. He is coming like a thief in the night, so it'd make more sense for Him to return at a time when nobody is looking.

>>532073

A weeb on /a/ got married to his waifu in vr after spending over 497 houra of modelling and animating.

Oh and there seismic activity in Mexico and North Korea, but no happenings.

>>532134

>Cuphead

What is the "Dark Souls of waiting for the rapture"?

>>532073

you got left behind anon. posting from heaven rn.

>>532084

But what about His Son?

>>533724

God is God. When Christ spoke about the Father knowing the hour, He was speaking as the perfect man, the new Adam – essentially saying that no created thing, even the perfect creation, could ever know the hour. However, Christ is both fully God and fully man, meaning He knows the hour insofar as He is also part of the Trinity.

>>533672

internet is fast as fuck, awesome