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File: 1453784871931-0.jpg (218.6 KB, 633x758, 633:758, Viking feels.jpg)

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 No.9438

So I was an atheist, and a christian before, and it should be obvious why I am here. I need help learning how to become pagan. I can't say I believe in gods, but I think of them as laws of nature personified, without a will. This is probably wrong, but I have been a fedora for too long. Most of my ancestors are from Northern Germany/Denmark area, or England. I have found websites but so much of it is sjw, magical shit, or website which supports mutts, or non-European pagans. Any real websites I find have basically the exact same stuff in the sticky (word for word in some cases). I would like to know more about your gods, and goddesses, and how to practice asatru, before I make a decision. So help would be appreciated.

 No.9442

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You already ARE pagan. The odinic aryan heathen folkway is ingrained in our blood. It is a natural expression of our genes. This is something you don't have to learn because it's all already there

But to help you out, the writings on the Odinic Rite website are a very good place to start


 No.9443

>>9442

>>9442

Also Red Ice Podcast and Renegade Tribune have good pieces on european paganism too


 No.9444

>>9442

How are the gods viewed in asatru? I get they are not meant to be buff men sitting in the sky but, after being a fedora for son long I struggle with believing a concept of gods other than physical laws personified (like gravity, or orbit around the sun with changing seasons) or ideal archetypes to strive towards, not physical free will entities.


 No.9445

Here are some quick links:

Odin's Volk: http://odinsvolk.ca

Database: http://libraryofasatrulore.wordpress.com/links/#groups-orgs

Prayers: http://valhalska.webs.com/prayersandblessings.htm

Shrines/Knowledge: http://www.northernpaganism.org/shrines

Be warned, the NorthernPaganism site is run by a leftie; you will see the idea that you can worship Odin by taking dick in the ass or being a tranny come up. Only use the site for ideas of how to build an altar or what (normal) things you can do to honor or be more like the gods.


 No.9446

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>I can't say I believe in gods, but I think of them as laws of nature personified, without a will.

>How are the gods viewed in asatru? I get they are not meant to be buff men sitting in the sky but, after being a fedora for son long I struggle with believing a concept of gods other than physical laws personified (like gravity, or orbit around the sun with changing seasons) or ideal archetypes to strive towards, not physical free will entities.

The fedora vector towards heathenry is usually Sagan's logic on the matter.

>Our ancestors worshiped the Sun, and they were far from foolish. And yet the Sun is an ordinary, even a mediocre star. If we must worship a power greater than ourselves, does it not make sense to revere the Sun and stars? Hidden within every astronomical investigation, sometimes so deeply buried that the researcher himself is unaware of its presence, lies a kernel of awe.

The difference is you apply this logic a bit more broadly than just the sun. You can't live without the forest, or the sky or the field so a reverence of the spirit of those things is important too. Where a lot of post-christians get it wrong is they just swap "god" for "odin" and resume their old religion. You don't just "dear Odin please help my sick mummy and help me get closer to you amen" like you did to the semitic santa klaus.

Generally your relationship is first and foremost to your fellow denizens of midgard, mortal, immortal, spiritual and otherwise. A lot of neo-heathens neglect to leave offerings for the various wardens, spirits and so-on because they're too busy praying to Odin… Sometimes they even neglect all the other GODS for that matter.

That is also another vector to belief, people who themselves are paranormal investigators, mediums, occult tinkerers or outsiders who tend to bump into the spirits and "others" whom exist outside the christian ability to explain, fit into scripture or even acknowledge outside of "they iz demons n shieet". First you understand there is more to reality than either the church of fedora of latter-day marxism or the church of semites can explain and so you have to unravel it all from there. In my case I was a (barely/officially) christian boy whose family didn't care much so I basically grew up in the woods (I tend to joke the forest is my mother and the sky is my father, considering how much more they did in my upbringing than my actual parents). When you're left to your own devices in nature without a strict regime of modernism or semitism you tend to just take things as they come and not try to fit them into anything.

I'd advise you to go out and try the same but the problem with fedoras is that they can't believe in anything that doesn't slap them right across the face… Yet, to experience some things you have to be open to them. It's akin to refusing to open your eyes and only believing what touches you because if you never use any higher senses you're never going to sense anything higher. You would have to go out there as a child does, just being in the forest and not disbelieving anything could happen. You can be your own "meme magician" to a degree. The relative effect of belief and disbelief tends to be much higher when you're around less sapients, even if other spirits are near you then I'm strongly theorising that you can push them away from yourself unless they're much more powerful or much more numerous than you. So spiritual perception/spiritual stealth is a "stat vs stat" in that regard, you can want to see or be open to seeing something far more than it doesn't want to be seen. Or maybe some things want to be seen by humans but only humans who will treat them nicely and respect them (some varieties of fae/dryads/hulders/"tailed-and-sometimes-horned-and-sometimes-animal-legged-humanoids"). All of this weighted by how much a society believes in things, the number of people who believe in them, the number of people around and so on. I've no doubt in ancient scandinavia when there were less people and all those people believed it could happen then troll-women with tails and sometimes horns coming out of the forest to spend time with people and sometimes even help them with their tasks in exchange for the company or a shared meal was an actual and relatively common occurrence.

I guess I'm rambling but my point is you're caught in a negative feedback loop. Relativity/Magic/Memes or however you prefer it is an actual and I would argue primary force in the universe. Whether we're in a simulation that aims to meet our expectations or if thought is an energy that reverberates through other energies (matter being dense energy) I can't say. I really prefer not questioning it too much. If it's a simulation then I'm going to log out when this character of mine dies and go back to my "real life" having played a very interesting game on my day off, or, I lead a very interesting life in a very interesting universe.


 No.9447

PS: Here's a book all about coming to believe. I'm not sure if /asatru/ takes .epub but I'm going to give it a try anyway. We have a lot of people asking "how to believe" and "how to become heathen" lately so it can't hurt.

Torrent link if the upload fails (I'll be seeding): https://thepiratebay.se/torrent/11142334/Summoning_the_Gods_-_Collin_Cleary_%5BDerHammer%5D.epub

If you have the money then buy the book yourself obviously, but in this case if you cannot afford it then it's information more important than material things.


 No.9448

>>9438

Here's a streamlined 101 reading list (which I ought to turn into the foundation of a recommended reading list graphic in the future):

>>8981


 No.9451

>>9438

>>9448

Decided to take my own advice and made it. Here ya go:

>>9450


 No.9478

To be quite frank, a lot of the standard explanations for the gods (egregores/super tulpas, honored dead, anthropmorphized nature, anthropomorphized folk soul, Jungian archetypes, etc.) come off as cop outish to me. Like "spiritual but not religious" or wanting to be a part of a religion/spirituality/ or folkway without being perceived as a "supernatural believing loon."

Why can't the gods just be man's attempt to understand and categorize the unknowable and uncategorizable? The holy and numinous powers? Sure, Thor is not literally a red-bearded man with a hammer and a chariot pulled by goats across the sky, but those characteristics are just man's attempt to try to approximate the nature of Thor in a fashion that even an everyman can kind of "get." A supernatural deity whose strength and power are comparable to that of the stalwart oak, or stubborn goats.

Not a deity who was believed in hard enough and clapped into existence like Tinkerbell, or a mere symbol for nature or an archetype, or some dead guy from long ago who was prayed to hard enough over the course of thousands of years… but just Thor unto himself (or "itself" considering even calling Thor "him" like he's a human being is also a product of my overclocked monkey brain trying to make him graspable on my mental level.)

Hel, I can even buy them all collapsing into each other into some greater cosmic whole akin to Hinduism. But there's something about reducing them to symbols or super imaginary friends that were believed in hard enough that has a desacralizing effect.

Of course these are just my thoughts. Ask five Heathens about the nature of the gods and you'll get five different answers, as it should be.


 No.9494

>>9478

>egregores/super tulpas, honored dead, anthropmorphized nature, anthropomorphized folk soul

I'd say D. All of the above.

Enough people believe in a spirit and it can be Tulpa'd, enough people believe it has domain over an aspect of nature and it will, enough people believe the tulpa is the warden of their völkisch will and the being will recognise the symbiosis that feeds it and act accordingly.

Its why I happen to believe that while christ isn't the son of one singular god (perhaps wasn't even an actual figure), he's surely a god at this point on account of the one billion people believing and feeding him. The fact christendom is growing browner by the day makes this fact all the more worrisome, but I digress…

As for what the gods /originally/ were and what /originally/ made people visualise a one-eyed man with raven.., to have openness of being one can't really get hung up on factualism and sciencism. You can try to understand the mechanics of things and still be open to being, you can ponder how spirits work and still meet and speak with spirits, but if one becomes consumed by the whys then they're a materialist all over again and often the thing they're trying to understand closes themselves off. I've known paranormal investigators to "lose their touch" for this reason, they become completely involved with cataloging and answering the paranormal to the point that they stop being open to it just being there and so they stop being able to sense or see it any more.

So that's my perspective anyway. You have primordial godhood which is probably much less personified and with much less individualist "being" and much more raw elements and aspects. As people begin to perceive and believe and transpose themselves over it, so it begins to gain its own consciousness and awareness of itself AS a self.

I think gods as we have them wouldn't be aware and acting as they are without us, their followers. But they would certainly still exist. That holy places, holy people and populations feed and direct them and in term the super-spirit senses a need to protect and act in the interest of its power base is as emergent as the anemone and the clownfish. It also makes sense on some level every conquering religion and people understand and intuit the need to wipe out the holy sites and followers of the previous people even if their teachings would otherwise forbid such action (le oy veus gevult armoured man of doctrinal hypocrisy, for instance). When groups of people go to war, so too intrinsically do their gods.


 No.9500

>>9494

Fair enough. I think my issue with this concept is that I have a hard time viewing something that is the creation of man as being "holy" or "sacred" or "numinous."

If something is created by man, then it can also be manipulated and informed by man, which seems base to me. My conception of the holy involves something that is independent of the creation of man, and thus informs and directs man, not the other way around.

Thus I imagine the holy as existing independent of man's beliefs, and that man simply intuited and recognized the holy, and built themselves and their lives around that.


 No.9501

>>9500 (GET Checked)

>My conception of the holy involves something that is independent of the creation of man, and thus informs and directs man, not the other way around.

Nothing is independent though, we're all interconnected (one of the awarenesses that separates us from the christians) and so nothing is completely above and separate from anything else. Ants still inform and direct us in some ways. We could not survive without bees even if we're by every measure a higher form of life.

So too I believe with godhood. Measurably more aware, knowledgeable and existing on an immortal and immaterial plane beyond our abilities… But before there was a body of followers to give context to primordial force and pre-conscious energy it was exactly that, not anything with a will or ability. A primordial ooze of potentiality.

You could argue about if the tulpa-gods people actually interact with are actually in any way connected to the supreme godly essences (the revelation of which made people will them into being in the first place)… but people do still meet physically observable one eyed elder men on wild hunts or formerly crucified prophets on the road to damascus. Related-but-separate phenomenon or not.


 No.9506

>>9501

Though I find "primordial essences shaped by man" a bit more agreeable than outright complete invention by humans, I still cannot say I'm completely sold.

For one thing, there is just too much hypostasis among pagan deities around the world. Even all the way in Japan, they have tales of a storm god doing battle with a gargantuan sea serpent (a storm god, whose myths also recall elements of Hercules):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susanoo-no-Mikoto

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamata_no_Orochi

Some deities with commonality can be explained away by the fact that they are all spun off from an umbrella ethnic group's worldview, i.e. Indo-Europeans. Thor, Perun, and Hercules having common ground fit into this explanation. But the Japanese, a non-Indo-European group, also has a mythological figure who is essentially a conglomeration of Thor and Hercules?

Cultures around the world getting lucky and all coincidentally willing very similar deities into existence is of course ridiculous. A more logical answer might be the universality of the human psyche when willing deities from the primordial essence; but things like the Thor-Hercules-Susanoo connection across races and geography still come of as a bit too specific and coincidental for comfort. It would be one thing if they were just deities associated with strength and thunder.

But:

1. They all face a monstrously gigantic serpent;

2. Both Hercules and Susanoo's serpents are multi headed.

3. All are known for rage episodes, which cause both Susanoo and Hercules to be cursed to seek atonement, and both find atonement through the slaying of the serpent. (Susanoo immediately, while Hercules eventually, as the Hydra is only one of the 12 trials.)

4. All had iconic magical weapons

Those are waaaaaaaaay too many specifics to be written off as "the product of universal archetypes" in my book.

I think an even more sensible answer is that all these cultures intuited deities that already existed, and interpreted them through their unique cultural lens.


 No.11465

>>9506

Logically I would say that is because of folk tales which may have been spread by the ancient civilizations ~10,000 years ago which had been destroyed. But through trade routes these common tales spread and thus many cultures have similar mythologies.

Spiritually I would say it is just because there are gods, and they are interpreted by these groups as they are/appear to be.


 No.11477

>>9446

>but the problem with fedoras is that they can't believe in anything that doesn't slap them right across the face

Recovering fedora here. This is absolutely true. Fedoraism is actually a pretty complete philosophy, and you will get results from it (assuming you're the more Epicurean-style rational atheist, and not some screeching commie faggot who rejects Yahweh only to replace him with Marx).

But, like he said, the philosophy is so complete that you end up entrenching yourself in it and losing touch with other worlds. The logical extreme of this is being an autismo.

And frankly, OP, if it were totally complete, you and I wouldn't be here, would we? Let's stick around and learn more together.


 No.11582

>>11477

OP, I have preformed two blots now, and wear my Mjolnir almost everyday at home listen to Nordic Volkish music, and German Volkish music, because my family are all Nordic Germans with some Danish ancestry, but I still don't really consider myself religious. I have experienced some weird shit that I can't explain since I started but I still have trouble believing in a god/gods that cares about this group of people on this one planet in this one system in this one galaxy, in this entire universe. But that is maybe because I still think of gods/goddesses as their personified images, even though that is only to help us identify with them. I struggle with any higher power not only mentally but philosophically. I just cannot bring myself to fully believe in a higher spirit that in un-measurable but can alter the physical, and I don't believe that beings should be placed ahead of one's volk such as Christianity does. For I believe that the White man at his highest potential is God (in that at our race's highest potential our race would become immortal and all powerful at least for in the sense that we are still individually mortal and corruptible), and that the world belongs to us, not to a higher power. I want to believe in Asatru, but I just don't think anyone can explain Gods to me in a way in which I can believe it. But maybe I have to find them myself… I don't know, I'm rambling on, but I am planing on picking up "summoning the gods" and maybe that will give me answers that I seek. I have tried watching some christian explanations for their God, just as a guide I don't believe or want to believe in that cucked religion, but no luck yet. Maybe I'm just too dumb to understand.


 No.11607

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.


 No.11608

>>11607

>>11607

Ah fuck nevermind that was meant for the music thread




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