/asatru/ - Asatru / Heathenry / Paganism

Oh this can be explained quiet well.

Isolation from theological rivals and lack of infrastructure: the romans for example already had a culture of theological debates priour to christianity (ciceros de natura deosum for example) due to their excellent trading networks to other cultures and riches that allowed them to entertain a philosophically active upperclass that wrote their shit down due to enough freetime.

This continued in the late antique were polytheists and christians were equally powerful and had to use arguments against each other.

But even then, the amounts of surviving roman theology are exeedingly sparse due to the rareness and brittleness of paper in general and a good amount of purges.

The extensive works of the polytheist theologe celsus are for example only known by a christian commentary's quotes against him.

Another example would be the arab pagans, these had trade and literacy by infrastructure but no theological opposition as their monotheist neighboors the jews sticked to themselves thus the idolaters never had to justifie their position in an equal standoff on argumentative paper but by hymns and prayers alone along the fact that they reigned supreme.

As muhammed rose to power so quick, the only counter argument the muslims recorded from their vanquished foes were appeals to their ancestors "your fathers and their fathers did it like this! ;_;" along the failed attempt to simply put the gods beneath allah and pray to both as all religious conflicts were pacified before.

Back to the germanics.

These neither had much trade going on so they rarely if ever got in contact with nonpolys before nor could they support the infrastructure to sustain a thinking class that wrote stuff down aside from the occasional poem such as the hildebrand song.

So word of mouth sufficed to keep the religion in the same way ancient people rarely got the idea to write dictionarys about their own language.

As christians came their persuation skills honed by centurys of debate with roman pagans basically steamrolled the natives, albeit war and many centurys of penalisation was needed to actually end the practizes.

>the weak

Funnily the amount of pagan shit that got injected into christianity speaks against the notion that the old beliefs were utterly inferiour.

Now, counter question:

Why is there not much secular/scientific debate between 700ad and 11th century in northern europe from christian sources?

Yeah, they lacked the infrastructure and needed cloisters of permavirgins to copy bibles all their life to at least produce scripture themselves, its not easy if youre not at the mediterran sea and the muzzies just capped the trade to the orient..

so basically they were lazy and had no motivation to.

you'd think that a culture that reveres its ancestors would want to safe-guard its traditions for its future progeny.

>Isolation from theological rivals and lack of infrastructure

Christianity became a rival, they had thousands of years to respond to it and solidify their teachings and thought.

Did they even have paper and ink?

even mudpeople like Indians thought to write down the myths of their people and religious beliefs and laws.

It's part of keeping track of your history.

Germanics/norse didn't even write books of fiction or poetry, fucken retards

>>12078

>thousands of years to respond to it

Now you are just baiting.

Christians showed up in northern europe as small sects with differing teachings in the heavily romanised rhineland around 300ad.

Actual contact and the push for governmental conversion into christianity happened under theodisos the second which was 400ad but only extended to france and the rhineland up north.

Then came the sack of rome by arianist christian goths and what is understood to be the dark ages.

During that time some backwater polytheist kingdoms hit by migratory waves, huns and not much else contact do not speculate about how someone could refute their gods as this necessity makes no sense if noone comes along to initiate it.

>did they have no paper?

No you historically illiterate, not even the christian occident had paper until 750ad.

People in the north wrote their stuff on bleached leather if anything at all as they had no papyrus and that stuff does not withstand time well.

Bibles were valuable as fuck and needed a vast cloisterstructure to produce them, sometimes reusing or cannibalising older works such as that one time they found ancient math underneath an early medieval bible.

Pagans indeed were too lazy for that effort and concentrated on metallurgy instead for example.

Also

>even mudpeople

You faggot, the indians did not always miss their loos and actually wuz once pretty great.

They had cities with tens of thousands of people just as the majas who also wrote their shit down because it became inevitable at such a scale of people you have to organise.

Northern people had smaller settlements, thus only a primitive bureaucracy not any different to the one introduced by charlemagne for his empire was needed along the part ive already mentioned that the upperclass that has the time on their hands to produce intellectual stuff wasnt numerous enough to bring forth many extravagant people to hold religious debates and write them down on top of that instead of keeping it with limited poetry.

What you may argue for is that christians picked the mediterran legacy up fast enough to have a superiour organisation towards the tribals that only had recently begun to form kingdoms and more sophisticated feudal structures thus they were justified to wipe out the old belief structures as they saw it fit.

But that would be some might makes right argument and way besides the point about why some people advanced to the point of a writing culture and others not.

>>12081

that may be true, but the germanics fucked up future generations

now we don't know their version of history or their religion or their values or anything.

They are worse than the native americans or africans who were too lazy to record anything they did. So now future generations have to LARP and "reconstruct" their culture using comic books and hollywood sources and christian sources.

I feel ashamed to be european.

>>12082

>I feel ashamed to be european.

actually the greeks offer us consolation, they are the heart of europe. and the fact that they converted to Christianity is only a sign of their intelligence and foresight.

I dunno if Christianity is true but I know monotheism is true, there is only one God and all these powerful archetypes are just imaginary projections and basically superheroes, but don't deserve the word 'god'

>>12082

>worse then native americans and africans

How?

These

>>12082

Why shame though?

A lot of beliefs got continued in the saintcults and the european nations often have a rich and artful christian and secular heritage alike, nothing to be ashamed off.

>>12083

>monotheism is true

Well, even the christians and strict monotheists like the muslims couldnt detach themselves from angels, while most polytheists had some kind of chiefgod on the contrary.

While angels were sorted into good ones and bad ones it is a bit fishy that the people who claim to get their commands from a messenger first and not god himself often are quick to discredit other peoples angels/gods as frauds and demons.

So listening to people telling you your angel is a shit because their angle told them so on behalf of god does not convince espeacially if the finall argument is done with fire and sword.

Christians have an edge in that case as it is god himself reincarnatiing as human to set things straight, but what he said is heavily distorted and accompanied by dozens of variations, including the gnostic ones as well.

If you are a monotheist in the abrahamic sense, then the deities are not imaginary projections but selfreliant spirits made by god or fallen demons who claim worship for themselves.

That "imaginary projection" thing sounds like you'd make a fine member of certain hindubranches who think like this or as a deist who leans on the old god-proofs but without having to attach the baggage of having to proof the trinity or muhammads ascension into heaven on a winged hors along it.

>>12079

>>12079

>Germanics/norse didn't even write books of fiction or poetry

nigger lots of sagas were either drawn and scratched onto runestones or written down by icelanders, there were runepoems and stuff, if christcuckoldry hadn't come along and had the runestones destroyed then we would still have some

>the weak should fear the strong then, holy crap give me a real answer

Hitler lost, and we've been getting progressively more and more steamrolled up the ass by the "stronger and more dominant" force of Liberalism/Modernism/Marxism ever since.

By your own logic, you should embrace being a transgenderqueer panromanticsexual castrato skunk fursona fairy otherkin with Dr. Who headmates. They're running the show right now and have been for the past half century, give or take, and are thus the "strongest."

Just as Conservatives have risen up and fight back against Liberal dominance and await it's inevitable collapse, so we rise up once more against Judeo-Christian dominance and await for it's inevitable collapse.

>>12088

Not to mention the fact that Christianity has only been around for about 2000 years give or take. 1000 of those years were spent trying to subjugate Paganism, and only partially succeeded considering how much of Paganism had to be absorbed and compromised to.

Only 1000 measly years later, Christianity is being eaten up by it's bastard child, Marxism, and Paganism is already rising up again. About 2000 or so years of existence, and already showing signs of wear seems mighty feeble in comparison to the thousands of years of Paganism before the coming of Christianity.

>>12089

>holy crap give me a real answer

By the way, here's more of a real answer you might be looking for; one void of any historical over-explaining whatsoever.

The cold hard truth is that the traditions and worldview were so damn strong, they didn't need to copy them down. It's ingrained in the heart and soul of red-blooded Europeans. The Christians, by preserving it through their written word and adopting their traditions and customs ultimately took it up the ass a little from the Heathen worldview in order to ultimately emerge "dominant."

And look at the state of the current Folkish Pagan revival: Who. Ultimately, Is. Leading. The. Charge?

Not the Greeks; not the Romans; not the Egyptians; Not the Celts; Not the Slavs.

Not one of these much more well preserved and/or more "civilized" Pagan traditions had even remotely stepped up to the plate until the Germanic revivalists came onto the scene. (and no, the Wicca perverted versions of Celtic and Egyptian faith do not count.) Out of all the Pagan traditions on Earth, the so-called least well-preserved out of all of them has unequivocally taken up the torch of a return to a true Folkish, Conservative minded Paganism.

In terms of spread and presence, the other branches are still trying to get their act together in comparison to the Northern European tradition. All without having to have "tons of sacred scriptures, academies and commentaries on their scriptures and commentaries on their commentaries."

Let that sink in for a bit.

That is how strong this worldview is.

It is literally slowly reviving itself out of the equivalent of nothing but scraps in a cave.

If that isn't pure raw strength, I don't know what is.

>demands answers to his le intellectual challenge

>doesn't know how to properly reply to a post

>>>asatru

>>12076

>religions texts of pagans

Writing as we know it was mostly invented by Latins, between Rome and Greece. This influenced the creation of the Bible, which was the first time a text was considered holy and opposed to the world. The Germanics you refer to did not have a writing system, everything was oral, like the archaic Greeks. Pindar used writing to keep track of things, all the matter was performed orally and usually with variation.

religious text like the Bible is really a degenerate form of worship because its cut off from the world.

other than that your post is shit-tier bait

>>12088

Exactly. Truth is Truth no matter how many guns are on its side.

Reading is a relatively new concept; human evolution by far predates any adaptations we've made to deal with the written word as visual animals.

Northern Europeans merely didn't have selective pressure to need to use the written word all the time, other than as signifiers.

Oral Tradition. Our ancestors had a much better memory and absolutely no need for writing. And if you're not some bullshitter or materialist douchebag you'll know they also had psychic powers. This throws everything you 'know' about the past out the window.