/arda/ - Tolkien's Legendarium

There might have not been much point posting this here as I'm pretty anyone who bothers checking in already is aware of this. I'm pretty sure one of the paragraphs was actually written by yours truly as a deliberately vitriolic shitpost, though with the kind of fire-and-forget quality discourse I prefer, I can't be sure.

Wouldn't jump to the conclusion that the degeneration of popular depiction of elves, following the need to "balance" the critters of fantasy settings, is so much the work of the echoing usual suspects, but the result of the crippling inferiority complex common among nerds. It comes as no wonder that so many neckbeards are obsessed with similarly degenerated depiction of dwarves as heroic hairy fat manlets with uncouth mannerism.

>>2137

But that's wrong you fucking retard. Elves in Tolkein were part of a dying culture and civilization, like the later parts of Greece and Rome, by the end of the trilogy they sail off giving up the land to the younger races. The elves were unwilling to fight, hiding away in their communities as the world fell apart around them while the young races being more virile attempting to fight off their ultimate destruction.

Further ALL of the preceding races were of a far greater power level in Tolkien, The Wizards, Balrog and Tom being examples of how overpowered everything used to be and comparatively still are.

>>2142

shit I should not have impulse responded since a lot of this seems covered

>>2142

>Greece and Rome

>saying Greece and Rome aren't White.

>>2146

Some would argue that meds and whites are two separate races. Regardless it's undeniable that hellenic civilization did give way to germanic civilization during the middle ages.

>>2147

>Some would argue that meds and whites are two separate races

Those are either Lefties or muds like Nicholas Taleb who are trying to decrease the White Man's accomplishments by saying "ayo hol up Greeks was Niggers n sheet".

I wrote a short essay about modern depictions of elves in regards to the way Terry Pratchett illustrates them and where I think the attitude comes from.

I think the post in the OP is a bit off-the-handle but it's not wrong about everything.

>>2159

Care to post the essay? I'd like to read it.

>>2165

‘kay

ANGRY ABOUT ELVES

I think Terry Pratchett’s attitude about elves, and the modern zeitgeist about elves as snooty ageless sissies which I observe in the world of tabletop gaming & modern fantasy literature, comes entirely from a modern anti-classism sentiment that shows up on all levels of our society.

(To wave the hand & say that Tolkien and co. omitted quite a lot of creepy details about elves, is a critique that holds no water. He attributed the abductions and the terrorization of early man to his goblins, which he all but said were elves of another kind.)

Pratchett was a man of the 20th century and all his human villains have been the wealthy and the elite and well-bred. We Americans take that to heart from our revolutionary roots (before us, “rebel” was a pejorative). We see a race of human-like creatures that do not grow old, do not get sick, and always affect an air of gentle superiority and condescension while looking down on us. Pratchett was a cockney and a lower-class man, and we natural born rebels would identify with him when he takes these “higher” beings and vilifies them to an extreme degree. After reading Lords & Ladies and The Science Of Discworld II, it’s very clear to me Pratchett intends them as his supreme Evil.

Whenever my GM makes the elves out to be the source of all the trouble in his games, or when I read online about “working-class-hero” type dwarves & humans, verbally shredding the elves up and down for being effeminate, ignorant, “posh” snobs, I get a sense of an ideal being dragged through the mud.

>”What makes them so special?”

>“Who said they had the right to look down on us?”

>”What’s so great about him we gotta call him King? I didn’t vote for him!”

It’s gotten to the point that anyone who disrespects elves strikes me as someone with an inferiority complex. The only other explanation is that it’s a reflexive backlash against a perceived overrepresentation of the elves as unquestionable paragons, and dragging them down becomes cathartic and feels original.

There are old tropes that, while outdated, are still fun. The white explorer being mistaken for a divine being by the savage natives is one. The inverse of this is Finrod Felagund encountering Men for the first time in Middle-Earth. The white explorer always meets nobility of character in the unwashed natives, and both he and they are better for having met. The idea that a hypothetical superior being meets the likes of us and finds us not only endearing, but enlightening, does not feel demeaning to me at all.

TL;DR: elves are cool & you don’t like them cuz they’re better than you.

>>2173

>t a perceived overrepresentation of the elves as unquestionable paragons

It's interesting that is that the backlash is so prevalent that it has become wjat seems to be the overrepresented thing

>>2174

that's the pendulum people keep talking about

>>2137

some of those are wrong. no elves liked fortresses, caves or anything else. they are definitely forest associated.

>>2213

You brought up the witcher in the other thread.

It's probably because I don't read modern fantasy novels, but I've noticed all these negative elf stereotypes in memes more than in any actual works. Off the top of my head, the elder scrolls is a serious with asshole elves, particularly the high elves, because high = bad if you're a normalfag writer. The Eldar from W40k also seem to be assholes.

>>2214

Didn't the Noldor love building fortesses eg Gondolin? Doriath's main city was caves too.

>>2220

Close to all notable Elven settlement was a cave or a fortress, often both. Sindar build what was pretty much bunkers, and Noldor build castles even in peaceful Aman like Eru damned autists. Lothlorien is a distinct exception, and the explicit reason for that is presence of powerful magic. Legolas points out that the stone of Eregion remembers the Noldor, not the trees. Clearly they weren't that much into the forests.

>>2214

Spotted the fa/tg/uy