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File: 1447522422738.jpg (118.4 KB,625x626,625:626,tolkien graffiti.jpg)

Tolkien and Counterculture Anonymous 11/14/15 (Sat) 17:33:42 No.203

Any oldfags out there who can speak to Tolkien's role in counterculture in the '60s and '70s?

I know he hated the hippies, calling them a "deplorable cultus", and I think I once heard of him referring to them as his "misguided children" (though I can't find sauce on that right now), but I'd like to get some perspective from someone who was around back then. The only perspective I currently have is from my Dad, who was a non-degenerate halfway-hippie, the kind who appreciated Tolkien from his Catholic background as much as for its anti-industrial and anti-war themes, and who carved "Frodo Lives" in the walls of shelters in the Adirondacks during week-long backpacking trips instead of spray-painting it in the cities.

And, perhaps even more importantly, what role does Tolkien play now in counter-culture? It seems like /pol/ embraces him, despite his hatred of nazi ideology, simply for the purity of his Anglo-Saxon mythology.

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Anonymous 11/14/15 (Sat) 18:05:31 No.205

There is, unfortunately, no separating the 60s counter culture from Tolkien.

There is a subsection of his fans that tried their best to fight it. Tolkien Society for example is a product of that.

>What role does Tolkien play now in counter-culture

He's as important to the alt-right as he is to new left. Different is the new left feels the need to insert PC racial equality everywhere, while the alt-right can't help make analogies that Tolkien didn't welcome.

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Anonymous 08/29/16 (Mon) 02:08:10 No.488

>>205

What analogies?

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Anonymous 08/29/16 (Mon) 06:48:14 No.498

>>488

Orcs are niggers/muzzies/kikes, Rohan is x country, Gondor is y country. Tolkien did not like allegory

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Anonymous 08/29/16 (Mon) 17:01:14 No.503

>>498

Tolkien hated allegory, but that doesn't mean there is no symbolism. While I reject most of the /pol/-inserted metaphors, it seems too coincidental that if you lay a map of Europe over middle earth, Mordor is Turkey, and that enemies tend to come from the South and the East. I don't believe that this represents a specific country though, but rather the traditional western experience of invasions coming from those directions.

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Anonymous 08/30/16 (Tue) 04:19:16 No.514

One of the things that made Tolkien crazy was the constant hordes of people coming to him with their own interpretations of how the novel was supposed to be. He only ever really just liked building worlds and wasn't really huge on trying to politicize or self-insert too much into anything beyond the environments he created. The Shire represented his growing up with nature and the beautiful simplicity of English life in the country. His experience with the Great War reflected in the Dead Marshes.

For years people claimed he was writing about World War II despite his constantly insisting otherwise. Even now after he's dead people are trying to turn the books into something they're not but I suppose its really just testament to how influential they are.

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Anonymous 08/30/16 (Tue) 11:04:41 No.518

>>503

Mordor is the proverbial enemy. Its how we see our foes. Thats why it resonates

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Anonymous 08/31/16 (Wed) 09:45:43 No.531

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>503

i just realised something

Mordor Morgoth

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Anonymous 10/06/16 (Thu) 02:30:59 No.581

>>503

tolkien can hate allegory all he wants, doesn't mean people can't read into his works more than he consciously did when he wrote it

sometimes the artist is oblivious to the depth of their work

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Anonymous 10/08/16 (Sat) 21:01:14 No.584

>>581

Tolkien was smarter than a modern country put together. I don't subscribe to applying politics to his world.

Tolkien wrote something that goes beyond simple "this is x, and this is y". There was no clear cut comparisons to be made, there was only what you choose to see in the book.

Applicability, not allegory.

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Anonymous 12/28/16 (Wed) 01:58:31 No.640

>>514

he said he hated allegory for its insincerity, but he never took issue with people finding inner meanings in his work. What he hated was people insisting that he deliberately inserted symbolism everywhere.

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