[ / / / / / / / / / ] [ dir / asmr / egy / fur / polk / pone ][Options][ watchlist ]

/agdg/ - Amateur Game Development General

AGDG - The Board

Catalog

You can now write text to your AI-generated image at https://aiproto.com It is currently free to use for Proto members.
Name
Email
Subject
Comment *
File
Select/drop/paste files here
* = required field[▶ Show post options & limits]
Confused? See the FAQ.
Expand all images

Welcome to AGDG, have you ever made a game?
See also: /ideaguy/ | /vm/

File (hide): 1451701512990.jpg (26.89 KB, 294x400, 147:200, 20110119061733-ian_stevens….jpg) (h) (u)

[–]

f1265f (2) No.24661>>24797 [Watch Thread][Show All Posts]

>tfw you have completed all of your work but you have to wait for your artist to finish the shit

How do I deal with this /agdg/? It's been a few months already since I got this artist (I'm even paying for his services) for my visual novel. His job it's pretty good, and when he gets on it he manages to make a shit ton of stuff in just a few days, but then it takes weeks to get a new update from him.

At first I wasn't that worried but I'm almost done with everything else. The script is done (in two languaeges), the progamming is done, I will finish with the proofread really soon too, the menus GUI and all that is done too, now I'm just doing some extra touches to make sure it looks pretty.

But the artist is sooooo behind the rest of the team, and it's a fucking visual novel so the artist work it's really important, and I can't just change him for someone else since he has already done a lot of the work and I would prefer to keep the consistency.

Any tips to motivate him to hurry his ass? It's not like I have a deadline or anything since I'm doing this for hobby more than anything, but it has come to a point that I'm already writting for my next work, but I can't really focus on it when I still have the previous one unfinished. I would prefer if I could get fully out of one universe to inmerse myself creatively in the other.

f1265f (2) No.24662

Also I wanted to put this in the general thread but it has hit the limit, just in case someone wants to make a new one.


3bf41a (1) No.24664

There's a new general here, it just hasn't been stickied yet.

>>24615

If you haven't paid this guy fully yet, then you should tell him that you won't pay the rest until he delivers what was agreed upon.


ccfdcf (6) No.24670>>24671 >>24681

File (hide): 1451764668771.gif (3.22 MB, 480x360, 4:3, 1448924374491.gif) (h) (u)

>one artist

>visual novel

Yeah, see, there's your problem. Go look up how many drawfags King of Dragon Pass had.

You're making some ren'py-tier shit, that means the ratio of coding is minimal to the art, meaning that drawfag is the crucial component of the actual development process, not you. And he's probably overwhelmed. And you have no control over him besides not paying. And he knows it.

He's most likely a relative noob and operating waaay outside of his comfort zone, having to solve problems he didn't know he had. Perspective, anatomy, landscape etc. visual arts are a terrible thing, you're always at risk of running into something, that'll ass rape the quality of your work. You sit there and try to imagine how some character's face should look from an upward angle, while smiling, then draw it 10 times, then go into a stupor, snap out of it, then pick number nine and touch it up for 3 hours. And it still looks not only bad, but noticeably worse, than your usual stuff. You realize you lack the mental workshop to deal with this, but you don't have time to crack open a 300 page book. So you go on to the next thing, which also has a 10% chance of stumping the fuck out of you and sucking the fun out of all this.

>and I can't just change him for someone else since he has already done a lot of the work and I would prefer to keep the consistency.

You boned yourself there, didn't you? If he knows you have no ability to exert pressure and are, in fact, the one dependent on him he'll take extra time to:

-go limp and wallow in his own shit over how much of a not-Sargent/Frazetta/etc. he is,

-try to up the quality of his work beyond reasonable effort per piece (in the case of someone who can do a lot in one go this behavior's the rarest),

-just fuck around and find excuses not to work.

My guess is you take two unaffiliated yet similar artists, make them work out a style you all can agree upon and they can work with and ==then== hire them.


a01667 (1) No.24671>>24672 >>24673 >>24751

>>24670

>just fuck around and find excuses not to work.

h-how often does this happen with artists?


9c8a4d (1) No.24672

>>24671

Depends on how unscrupulous they are, but most artists will actually do work provided they feel like they actually have any reason to continue to work. Because of this, it's important to find that balance between respect for the artist and managing them from a "business" perspective. Don't treat them like shit, but don't give them unlimited freedom, either.


ccfdcf (6) No.24673

>>24671

With pros? Almost never. With noobs? Almost always.

Working on something, that they can't scale down or abandon if it proves too difficult is traumatic to them. It's not like programming, that once you figure out the problem you instantly gain the insight to overcome it. An artfag is usually measuring himself against the best in their form/style, sometimes against the best in general, in all of history. The fresher he is the more ego he puts behind his work. The nature of the medium he works with - quality is instantly discernible and for all to see, so it's a lot easier to compile a list of best painters, than car mechanics.

And now he finds himself out of his depth, unable to ace some basic bitch piece, with no time to read and master those 300 pages of Vilppu or Hampton. Hence avoidance and procrastination. Hell, sometimes he will be too uninformed or in denial to be able to progress their skills at all.


bc6579 (1) No.24676

You better hope he won't just disappear one day, fucking artists man


cbccb3 (1) No.24681

>>24670

In my defense I have to say that it's a really small project. There's only 5 characters, with not so many expressions, and I got him all kind of references to work with.

In fact I proposed him to let some other people do the CGs, so he could focus on the characters sprites exclusively (the backgrounds are pictures), but he insisted in that he wanted to do the CG because he needed the money.

So at least I know that he needs money, and until now it is true that he has been more motivated when in need of money.

I know the artist work is stressful but at the same time it's really tough to get that balance between pressure and freedom. Sometimes he just disappear and I don't get anything from him, then some other days he suddenly get motivated and in two days get a shit ton of stuff done. It's driving me crazy.


ad8557 (1) No.24712>>24721 >>24723 >>24724 >>24725 >>24801 >>24846

File (hide): 1452034423496.jpg (154.6 KB, 730x724, 365:362, 3.jpg) (h) (u)

So, to make your own game you need to:

be good at programming

be a good artist to make art for your game

be good at modeling

be good at texturing

be good at making music

anything else?


947aec (1) No.24721

>>24712

Sound effects.


2afc55 (1) No.24723

>>24712

Level design, character design, game promotion/marketing, business management, shit man just watch the credits of any AAA game of the last decade.


ccfdcf (6) No.24724

>>24712

>be good at programming

I think it's enough if you can script in some engine. That's not a lot.

>be a good artist to make art for your game

Good enough to make game assets. High poly sculpts+post production can be enough to fill the "art" section IMO.

>be good at modeling

If you do 3D, then yeah. This portion of the workload will only grow.

>be good at texturing

Getting easier and easier with Substance and whatnot. I'd be worrying about rigging and animation more.

>be good at making music

But do you really need to? I'd go find ready shit I like on soundcloud etc. Make a deal with the authors to modify and sell it to me and use that.

>anything else?

The ability to make good game concepts and be flexible with them. Being able to intuit what will be easy and what will be hard/labor-intensive/impossible to implement in the engine and rebuild initial ideas on that.

Lately I'm beginning to think some people just have it and some don't. A lot of core design decisions in AAA seem moronic to me. And I don't mean the stuff that might've been forced by the publisher/investor retroactively. The starting concept is usually overdone or broken.


1329bd (1) No.24725

>>24712

You just need to be passionate and keep trying :^)


2577be (1) No.24737>>24749

File (hide): 1452195889388.jpg (43.82 KB, 400x297, 400:297, 1425814812893.jpg) (h) (u)

>artist connected

>send message

>no answer

>wait 3 days

>see him connected again

>send a new message

>no answer

I lost him, didn't I?


ccfdcf (6) No.24749

>>24737

Nah, he'll probably resurface in 2 weeks with nothing done and resume work at the same slow and erratic pace. You might want to look around for potential replacement just in case, tho.

Next time hire two people to do the same damn thing. Alternatively someone with a lot of this kind of projects under his belt if you want to put your faith into someone.


f90794 (1) No.24751

>>24671

It's not so much an artist thing, but more of a "guy who thinks he wants to make video games" thing.


948f3b (3) No.24779>>24787 >>24791 >>24882

i fucking hate artists so god damn much, my main problem with them is they NEVER FUCKING READ BRIEFS


feac9a (1) No.24787

>>24779

my main problem is that "I don't do lewd"


3bd60d (2) No.24791

>>24779

I had people that wouldn't even read summaries about the story and character when doing proofreading, then of course they would totally destroy the meaning of some sentences because they wouldn't get the underlying meaning.

Now artists I have yet to see someone to read ANYTHING.


8b1aa0 (1) No.24792>>24808

File (hide): 1452616940637.jpg (85.37 KB, 804x802, 402:401, 1444992144691.jpg) (h) (u)

>be art fag

>reading this thread


ffba2f (1) No.24797>>24805 >>24811

File (hide): 1452647514134.jpg (47.3 KB, 399x600, 133:200, 1450399403880.jpg) (h) (u)

>>24661 (OP)

>and it's a fucking visual novel so the artist work it's really important

Wait nigga what

That makes the artist the majority of the fucking game and the rest of you filler


c93559 (1) No.24801

>>24712

Most of that is dependent on medium. I would say a better plot would be to release a niche game with passable art and sound, but be hella fun to play.

I think the key is you have to find an artist that is really engaged and passionate, someone you could sit down and have a beer with.

This is really hard to find because developing a real bond with someone like that takes time and on top of that they have to have good work ethic, but being willing to work with you.

Of course you could always contract people, but it's nice to really WORK with someone.

TLDR: Make several refined prototypes, post them, get artists that way and then get drunk with them.


3bd60d (2) No.24805

>>24797

There's shit ton more of text than art so I don't think so, make it double since I had to write it in two languages. This is not your hentai game with no plot and just cute girls, it's mostly focused in the story. That doesn't change he's really important, especially since first impressions of art for visual novels is what basically tells people if they will give it a chance or not.

As I said this is a small project so there are only like 5 characters and a few CGs, it's not really that much work compared to your average, but still...


948f3b (3) No.24808

>>24792

if you're not shit please work for me


4a6601 (1) No.24811

>>24797

>What is Higanbana/Uminekos PC versions

You can get away with shit tier art in visual novels as long as your storys good and you put lots of text per page (like Tsukihime does to avoid using so many C.Gs). You generally can easily getting away with a few generic poses for each character and a couple of scenes for the crucial moment if you really want to. Hell, Analog a Hate Story literally only has the 2 characters poses and like 1 scene at the end which they're pasted over and its still vaguely enjoyable if you're into feminist pandering.

That said if OPs artist really is struggling he's either premium lazy, hasn't understood the brief or the novels made up of 1 line dialogue sentences each requiring a separate expression and scene change.


86489e (1) No.24846>>24853

>>24712

to make your own game, you have to be good in programming, and managing period.

minecraft still had programmer art

it had no story

sounds weren't too complex

...wait, unless it was a VN


2055af (1) No.24853>>24880

File (hide): 1453053755729.gif (51.11 KB, 500x514, 250:257, tumblr_inline_nejl9g0T9o1s….gif) (h) (u)

>>24846

>to make your own game, you have to be good in programming

What? You only have to be good enough to ship. Notch also admitted multiple times that he isn't a good programmer (which is probably true), Minecraft was a success because it was well marketed and filled a niche.

Also don't confuse bad assets with low-fidelity assets. Minecraft still has passable stylistics, if you have no idea about art, you'll end up with something that makes your eyes bleed instead.


becf6d (1) No.24880

>>24853

To make this point crystal clear for people.

Notch was an efficient coder, but not a good programmer. Being a coder and being a good programmer aren't synonymous. He could churn out code really fast, and optimize it on the fly too. That doesn't mean it was nice code, just that it solved a problem with very little time spent writing it.

His work was messy. For a small team it was fine, but I could imagine that if he was put on a very large development team, his code probably wouldn't fly so well.

That being said, he got shit done when it came to writing large chunks of code. Yeah, it probably needed a lot of testing, and was probably a bit tedious to follow for other developers, but when it came time to make money from it, it did the job.

The point about stylistics is also a good one.

A good way to look at this is, it took actual decent artists very little work to add further fidelity into the Minecraft art style.

Texture packs such as the Sphax one were a strong emphasis on this. They varied very little from the original art, but simply went for a slightly more detailed approach.


eab835 (1) No.24882>>24945

>>24779

>briefs

what the fuck is that

My experience doing art for people is that they have something in mind, but they're not telling me anything. They'll only tell me if I'm doing something right or wrong or good or bad, but they don't tell me what they actually want, so it's like swimming in an endless ocean. The game may have some weird blocky level design that doesn't support any kind of interesting design, and they're not telling me what the possibilities and limits are, so I'll have no idea what is supposed to be possible. Even worse when the level design is just atrocious, I want to know if I'm allowed to improve or change or even redesign the whole thing, but these things are surprisingly difficult to get out of some devs.

If I try to take the initiative and design the game art properly, I'll get a "yeah that's good" at best and then it falls flat on that. If I give a bunch of examples and ask for their thoughts, they'll just pick one of them as the final decision, even though I was just trying to lead the design process somewhere, not present any choices.

I really want to work on a game project of some kind, but it's so uncomfortable always being so alone and blind during the whole process because the other guy(s) have no idea how to work with an artist or even communicate period.


886493 (2) No.24926>>24931 >>24935

File (hide): 1453396032617.gif (1.08 MB, 680x680, 1:1, 1425477695183.gif) (h) (u)

>Finally get in touch with him

>Says he will start doing shit tomorrow as soon as he finishes some other shit

>5 days passes

>Nothing

I SWEAR TO GOD FUCKING ARTISTS JESUS CHRIST JUST...!!!!


7427c7 (1) No.24931

>>24926

Get them to sign contract when commissioning one for bigger projects.


901e5d (1) No.24935>>24961

>>24926

Why are you still working with that guy?

I mean I get it if he's not professional, but even the most retarded amateur would not be that unstable.


948f3b (3) No.24945

>>24882

post some of your work


886493 (2) No.24961>>25066

>>24935

Talked seriously with him, gave him some strict deadlines, if he don't follow them he's out. I could feel how he was a bit evasive and probably angry, but at the same time he couldn't complain because I'm 100% in the right here. I'm tired of this shit.

The thing is, this is not the first guy, when I started the project I had talks with a few more artists, managed to have a couple of them doing the first sketches, and it was the same shit. No communication, disappearing after a while, inconsistency of work... seriously it's hard finding someone who actually gives a shit about ANYTHING, and this is for everything, but I can't help to think it's x2 true for artists. This all with money on the table of course.

Now the problem is bigger because finding a new artists with the same style that the actual one will be hard and it can totally break the consistency.


454a89 (1) No.25066>>25072

>>24961

The problem with artists Op is they all dreamed they'd be a Picasso for the digital age or something like that and have people swarming to be near them while they drunk fabulously expensive wine and had their dicks sucked by A List movie celebs.

Then they realize that doesn't fucking happen to anyone, art is appreciated but not really in demand and then have to work on things like your project to pay the bills which makes them resent the hell out of you for representing the crushing of their dreams.


ccfdcf (6) No.25072>>25073

>>25066

>faggasso

Please. Naming that fraud as someone to look up to makes me cringe.

Most illustrators aren't like the postmodernist/modernist attention whore trash in "high arts". It's way more about mastery, than prestige.

ofc everyone still likes their ding dong stroked online, especially if they're some insecure brat, but don't compare that to people who'll publicly shit on the canvas in hopes of attaining the rockstar lifestyle.


39f815 (1) No.25073>>25077

File (hide): 1454077521152-0.jpg (126.1 KB, 680x1024, 85:128, 197aef3fbf88d9823dc0b1804b….jpg) (h) (u)

File (hide): 1454077521153-2.jpg (437.81 KB, 1534x1200, 767:600, HRsErpi.jpg) (h) (u)

>>25072

>You will never be as deliciously degenerate as Pablo

But in his defense, he can make some pretty good stuff. See 3rd pic.


ccfdcf (6) No.25077

>>25073

You mean his dad can.

That were his late father's paintings Faggasso used to prove he's not just a hack, who promotes bullshit "art", because he can't do anything else. His later attempts at sketches fall laughably short by comparison,

Hipsters don't like to talk about or spread this little tidbit, because it weakens their own chutzpah by relation. It's all a house of cards maintained by rich and well connected attention whores and the richer yet dopes that buy their garbage as "investments" (and ofc galleries, that can make or break an "artist", because it's all subjective pinioning now).




[Return][Go to top][Catalog][Screencap][Update] ( Scroll to new posts) ( Auto) 5
38 replies | 8 images | 29 UIDs | Page ?
[Post a Reply]
[ / / / / / / / / / ] [ dir / asmr / egy / fur / polk / pone ][ watchlist ]