No.739
We have likely all arrived at similar conclusions in regards to how the world works. So I want to pose two questions:
1.Is there any hope of changing things for the better?
2.If there is, how do we do it?
Personally, I have a very hard time believing that we can prevent the gradual loss of our liberties and regain even a little bit of power over our own lives. We aren't fighting to prevent the New World Order (or whatever you want to call it), we are fighting to change it back. It is very hard not to give into despair and choose a hedonistic life of servitude when looking at the big picture. In fact, this song seems to me like the perfect soundtrack for the 21st Century.
Regarding the method of resistance, there are many differing opinions on this. The Fringe Wizards believe in using magik to fight the Demiurge and liberate themselves as individuals, both the /pol/acks and the /lefty/s believe in revolution and the creation of a new government, while the libertarians like the idea that the free market will fix it. As for me, I can't really think of an effective way we can try to overcome our enslavement as a society. We can only resist as individuals, and in our resistance set the example for others, while fighting the inevitable marginalization of our opinions. I wouldn't be surprised if the people on top were aware of the existence of places online like this, and found it amusing.
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No.741
What do you mean when you say "changing things for the better"? It may seem obvious to you, but it helps to define the problem before you try to find a solution.
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No.746
>>741I mean stopping or reversing the current trends we are seeing today, distopic fiction tropes which are becoming reality, such as:
>Government surveillance over its own citizens, coupled with psychological profiling;>Glorification of manufactured celebrities and poor moral role-models;>Creation of a politically and culturally homogenous society where dissenting opinions are seen as heretical and rejected violently;>Constant incentives for mindless consumption and trivialization of debt;and perhaps the main one and the cause of it all:
>Concentration of power over the flow of information in the hands of a small group of individuals, who also control the wealth.<tinyboard flag alt></tinyboard>
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No.747
I recently watched Rollerball, a dystopic sci-fi film released in 1975, and one of the main points of the movie is that the people gave away their freedoms for the sake of comfort. I think that everyday that our society becomes more efficient, sustainable, and automated, we get closer to the point of no return. The people will never again be allowed to feel any sort of hunger. Control over the media is so strict that the people will never be roused to action in any productive manner. There is a lot of talk of a basic income, and if that is feasible, I think it would be the beginning of the end. How many will opt to live off of their meager income, smoking weed and playing video games all day, fully dependent on the government? When it becomes practical for a majority of the population to live luxurious, comfortable lives, I fear we will never see any sort of revolution again.
In a way, we are already at this point today. Even the poorest of the poor in the U.S. have video game consoles and iPhones and computers. The bread and circuses will never stop for them.
Perhaps, much like Rome, it will be foreign invaders who destroy our own decadent system. Even this is unlikely. The gap in weapons technology between 1st world and 3rd world has never been wider.
But is this all bad? I've always found myself defending Brave New World. From the outside looking in its an appalling dystopia, but, as they say, ignorance is bliss. What is the difference between a sheep trained by the government to love their station in life and take soma when they're feeling down, and a monk who meditates 8 hours a day to become immune to the suffering of life? If reality is simply an illusion, what point is there in preserving aspects of that illusion that cause great suffering? Why not create a perception of reality that will minimize or remove suffering? Finally, is it relevant whether one does these things of their own free will, or if their perception are forcibly realigned by the propaganda of some government entity?
It is innately abhorrent. I do not want it. The thought of becoming a zombie with no personal agency is depressing. However, if I am to be honest and objective, I cant deny that it is a good thing.
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No.748
>>747I also recently watched it.
you draw some terrifyingly accurate points.
Everything relies on a conjunction of innovation in technology. If we are to move froward into a basic income economy we MUST also change the way education is handled across the board. This will be our fundamental battleground against the "elite".
I have some vague ideas of an open stream higher education system that facilitates voluntary drop in drop out mentorship and apprenticeship. Combined with interest free loans from starting buisness or some something similar in the hopes of creating a system of information tranfer that can create an environment where a true free market may unfold. It may be utopian but I hope to see a sythesis of libertarianism and socialism via basic income.
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No.749
>>747
>But is this all bad? ... Why not create a perception of reality that will minimize or remove suffering? Finally, is it relevant whether one does these things of their own free will, or if their perception are forcibly realigned by the propaganda of some government entity?Exactly, the ideal political state is an authoritarian global state whose members believe themselves to be free. It's kind of in place but there's still a long way to go.
>It is innately abhorrent. I do not want it. The thought of becoming a zombie with no personal agency is depressingYou can still have personal agency because you are aware of it. Freedoms are relative, as soon as you're out of one box there's still another the puts limits on what you can do. There are many forces which influence our actions, psychological, cultural, social, biological, and, as a final absolute, physical. But if you become conscious of these boundaries, you have the possibility to live a life free of them.
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No.2243
>>739
>1.Is there any hope of changing things for the better?
Probably not
>2.If there is, how do we do it?
Probably this: https://vimeo.com/60275490
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No.2457
A sense of purpose might help.
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No.2458
>>747
If you think that the ultimate good is the absence of suffering, why not commit genocide, or render everyone comatose?
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No.2731
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No.2732
>>747
>if reality is an illusion
That seems like an unnecessary assumption.
I realise this is an old post but I watched Rollerball recently and I've been thinking on some of the themes.
I think the people of that world are diminished as human beings. They don't feel the full range of emotions, their lives fit inside a 'cosy' little box of consumerism, but their lives are so regimented they are like drones and they're sort of mentally sterilised. Then there are the people at the top who get everything they want, who control everyone's lives and choose what is acceptable and not-acceptable; for them life is a playground and people are like dolls for them. They themselves are like demigods yet their blessing is in their sneakiness, cynicism and keen intuition of how to manipulate minds and hearts.
Like Rollerball, Thus Spake Zarasthustra touches on the same themes. He describes humanity falling into the trappings of comfort and the struggle of 'higher men' who live for something else and how they'll fall by the many attempting to find it.
Charles Darwin's 'The Next Million Years' (from what I've heard of it) describes people falling into a two-class system of governors and governed, and that eventually the higher-ups of this system (being the last wild element) could end up destroying it by their excesses.
Is it hopeless to change? It's a depressing and bleak outlook. The internet is the best weapon but is occupied by the enemy. They own the most popular sites, have shills to spread their disinfo 24/7 and do their best to stupefy and splinter everyone with bad and demoralising content. Then it seems the heroes everyone had growing up were all manufactured fictions and no true guide to action. Westerners are certain to live the consumer life or drop out completely and eke by -- a whimpering life in either case. The way to break out of it may be to become more than the easy life, end the inertia and the passivity of the wageslave or claimant, stop being tied to what we own, stop waiting for death to come over the horizon, but I don't know...
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No.2733
>>2732
or to take back the media and build new infrastructure to subvert shilling and disinfo, and wage a massive campaign to educate people in highly stimulating, easy-to-digest ways (like infographics, maybe throw some titties in) about the true nature of the structure they're in.
No one wants to be a slave. They do want convenience and comfort though. So perhaps you incentivize people to opt out as well..
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No.2735
>>747
Ignorance is not bliss. You are ignoring vital information willfully (in an age where information is available at our fingertips), thus choosing to remain a stupid coward in the face of brutal realities. Suffering is constant, you can not avoid suffering, as long as you are alive you are suffering to a degree. Was it not Buddha who said that suffering is our purity, or something similar to that? Reality is NOT an illusion, especially when you experience pain, you perceive pain as real. So if pain is real, why not happiness? You cannot remove suffering without removing your own life. Empathy, compassion, love, liberty.. these are all things human beings collectively cherish and hold sacred. They are things we wish everyone could have. Your mission is to align your perception with truth, to live in harmony and adapt to what really is, not embracing deception. There is a difference between nescience and ignorance. Also, Brave New World was written by Aldous Huxley who was involved in MK-ULTRA LSD experimentation. You are a brainwashed clown if you think being a brain-dead zombie has any goodness to it.
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No.2736
>>2733
I agree with you, infographics are the way to do that, although so many are disinformation and countering them requires a dedicated effort. I don't know if the NEETs (who else has time for this type of thing) have the morale to do it.
Also to me the alternative news is part of the mainstream news, it's just a different thought loop it puts people on. 8ch and 4chan are owned by "them" too, though have been a benefit.
>No one wants to be a slave. They do want convenience and comfort though. So perhaps you incentivize people to opt out as well..
Seems at the end of the day people have to choose convenience and comfort or adopt the rigour for self-improvement and then risk possible incarceration, humiliation or death trying to break the system. Comfort is a hard habit to break out of.
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No.2737
>>2736
Pay people to do it. And prevent the shills. Literally all one needs to do. Substantial problems, but systemic and rewarding ones.
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No.2740
>>2735
Anon isn't brainwashed, just a sophist.
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No.2745
>>2737
Could possibly entice /r9k brits with something like "NEETs wanted: 5p per post, cash-in-hand, must own a computer and be able to screencap work history". Although maybe there's some Tannu Tuvans on dial-up that could be had for a fraction of that. Some research needed on this.
>>2740
Maybe he does believe it and he's like Zangrief here
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