No.724
Requests for thread topics:
Guy Debord
Jean Baudrillard
Michel Foucault
Marshall McLuhan
The Sociology of Game Shows
Feel free to add to this list or make a post on one of the topics.
____________________________
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No.727
I agree on all of your suggestions, still have been inable to find a current synthesis / critique of Understanding Media in current context althougg i have some ideas.... also adding Joseph Campbell, more specifically the Changing Image of Man connection. I have quite a few questions for discussion on all of the persons listed but sadly not the expertise to begin a coherent topic thread on any of them myself, cant wait to see how it pans out though.
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No.731
To my understanding Debord in society of the spectacle described how a society based on copies, imitations, functions.
Baudrillard, in simulacra and simulations, describes what happens after this trends continues for a while.
Also, Barthes in mythologies, described how this mechanism itself works. To me this book was the one that put the above two together.
What is the sociology of games shows? I searched it but didn't seem to get anything relevant.
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No.732
>>731The sociology of game shows would be examining their place in culture, their popularity and trends, their form and source, and the effects that they have on the viewers.
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No.2036
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No.2055
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No.2216
PhD candidate here (political science) I know quite a bit about continental thought (esp Foucault), and its influence on US Politics. Do you think this board would be interested in an AMA?
I'm new to conspiracy theorism, but, tbh, I'm really surprised at how close some of this stuff comes to 'legitimate' academic theory. I'm impressed. kudos.
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No.2229
>>2216
No need to AMA. You can pick a topic that interests you and make it approachable for the layman in a new thread. Or you could apply theory to current or historical events etc.
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No.2230
>Guy Debord
>Jean Baudrillard
>Michel Foucault
These are the vile leftists who, among others, created "postmodernism," which is the seed philosophy of Cultural Marxism. A lot of their writing is emperor's new clothes. Be aware of them but don't fall into the trap of spending precious time trying to "learn from them."
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No.2236
>>2229
I agree with this poster's suggestion.
>>2230
It is unreasonable to completely dismiss an author because of their political and philosophical positions. Despite my decidedly right-leaning stance, I learned plenty from an introductory book on ideological propaganda written by a marxist. The more complex, political and "unempirical" a topic, the more likely it is that material on it will have a bias of some sort. As such it would be fruitless to seek only unbiased material on that topic, while learning to identify and analyse bias will add a layer of learning.
Even if one disagrees completely with everything that a source states, it is still a learning opportunity in the sense that it allows you a glimpse into the mind of those who disagree with you, giving you the chance to better understand their position. Not only that, but it often provides you with a new perspective on your own beliefs, which is one of the most useful tools for self-improvement.
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No.2248
>>2236
Fair enough. I guess I am still bitter about being force-fed that drek as a college student.
And I really do think 9/10 of it is empereror's new clothes. Sound and fury signifying (pun intended) nothing. The Pomo crowd never passes up a chance to say with 1000 words what could be said in 10.
The worst of the bunch are Deleuze/Guattari and Baudrillard (sp?). At least I felt I learned some actual content worth remembering from Foucault's "Discipline and Punish."
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No.2249
>>2248
>postmodernism is the seed philosophy of cultural marxism
a) no it isn't
b) there is no such thing as cultural marxism
This is why you should actually read what these authors have to say. You might be surprised.
>protip: Judith Butler is a lying kike who bastardized Foucault's theories. Foucault would have hated Tumblr, and he specifically spoke out against the creation of 'gay culture' in Power/Knowledge
The More You Know
>>2229
>>2236
meh, I wouldn't know what to post. It does seem that the 'conspiracy theorist' ideas of propaganda-mind control are basically the "poor man's" Foucault, so to speak. It's why I always find it curious when people start gobbling on about hating Foucault, but then use his very theories to explain how we're being manipulated.
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No.2259
>>2248
>The worst of the bunch are Deleuze/Guattari
What do you not like about Deleuze/Guattari?
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No.2260
>>2259
How do I get started on Deleuze? I hear Foucault considered himself Deleuzian.
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No.2261
>>2259
Not that anon, but Deleuze and Guattari are very hard to read and use a lot of verbose language to express ideas that could be conveyed without such pomposity. Particularly Guattari. Nigga I can't read that shit.
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No.2262
>>2259
>What do you not like about Deleuze/Guattari?
I would agree with the poster above. Basically, poor style and inchoate organization masquerading as depth. Perhaps if I read it in the original language I might get more out of it, but I am not afraid to admit I got next to nothing from the English version of "a Thousand Plateaus" and I consider this the fault of the authors rather than myself as a reader.
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No.2276
>>2249
>there is no such thing as cultural marxism
And this board is now officially co-opted
No surprise given that a lot of the old threads have been buried under literally tons of the most derivative crap and obvious pasta meant to derail most of the very serious conversations we were having here
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No.2280
>>2260
>How do I get started on Deleuze?
A Thousand Plateaus
“The two of us wrote Anti-Oedipus together. Since each of us was several, there was already quite a crowd. Here we have made use of everything that came within range, what was closest as well as farthest away. We have assigned clever pseudonyms to prevent recognition. Why have we kept our own names? Out of habit, purely out of habit. To make ourselves unrecognizable in turn. To render imperceptible, not ourselves, but what makes us act, feel, and think. Also because it's nice to talk like everybody else, to say the sun rises, when everybody knows it's only a manner of speaking. To reach, not the point where one no longer says I, but the point where it is no longer of any importance whether one says I. We are no longer our selves. Each will know his own. We have been aided, inspired, multiplied.”
—Deleuze & Guattari, the first paragraph of A Thousand Plateaus
"deterritorialization" and "rhizomatics"
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No.2298
>>2276
Its true. There is no such thing as cultural marxism. I mean, in one sense, in a scientific sense, there is a thing that is cultural Marxism, in the scientific sense that there are stupid loons out there who believe in this thing they term 'cultural marxism'. So, in the ethnographic sense, and assuming that there is no such thing as objectivity (a very SJW argument), there is a such thing as Cultural Marxism.
But, in the scientific sense of considering the origins of certain beliefs or movements in society, there in no meaningful sense of cultural marxism.
tl'dr:
1) in the sense that there are crazy loons out there who have a nutty conspiracy theory called 'cultural marxism', then cultural marxism exists.
2) In the sense of the most useful way to understand and predict social behavior - that is, in the most objective, scientific way of understanding society - Cultural Marxism doesn't exist.
3) btw, in the philosophical sense of the term, cultural marxism is literally a contradiction in terms. The proper terminology would be (Left) Hegelianism
What you are referring to, when you espouse so-called Cultural Marxism, is a myriad of beliefs, actions, movements, cultures, etc, that have only, in many cases, tangential relations to one another.
>inb4 b-b-but m-muh jooooooos
Yeah, you're a retard.
So, if you'd like to stop being so arrogant in your ignorance, I could actually teach you what is going on. Its sort-of similar to what you think, but different enough that your paradigm is totally ineffective at combating it. Remember what Sun Tzu said, Know Your Enemy
PS. either way, I'm laughing at you
pps. if you don't take me up on the offer, you are are losing... twice
ppps. you're a stupid faggot
>>2280
intersting... thanks
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No.2299
File: 1443260345396.jpg (1.46 MB,3039x4559,3039:4559,0105194307876_013_11817436….jpg)
>>2259
>That pic
I kek'd heartily. Having read a few books by him this easily illustrates what was happening in my mind. Of course, one shouldn't dismiss everything he said. He took political nihilism to its logical extreme. Maybe he was serious about it, maybe it was a thought experiment.
>>2276
(Not him) Explain how "Cultural Marxism" relates to Marxist theory and I will consider what you said. Cultural Marxism has reached meme status and it's an umbrella term for "post-modern degeneracy" nowadays.
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No.2301
>>2276
Just because a poster has a different opinion than you doesn't mean that the entire board has been co-opted. In fact, another anon shares your opinion and posted a series of sources supporting their position here: >>2254. Don't see dissent as a threat, but as an opportunity for discussion.
This anon: >>2298 makes some valid points and except for calling you names for no good reason and being condescending could probably engage in some productive dialogue.
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No.2302
>>2301
"this anon" is me. And, if faggots like that would actually humble themselves enough to ask some pointed questions, I could actually help them to understand their own position better. But, making retard accusations like that won't get far with me.
I literally have so much more education and have read so much more of the source literature that I have no patience whatsoever for that bullshit.
And, claiming that I'm somehow a shill that has 'coopted' the board is plenty 'good reason' to be 'condescending' and tell the truth like it is: anon is an ignorant, and worst of all, at the same time, arrogant, faggot, and anon should commit suicide forthwith.
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No.2308
>>2298
>>2299
>>2301
Have any of you even bothered to check the catalog and see the vast amount of low quality spam that out of nowhere appeared into this board? are you really that stupid to think nobody noticed it?
Specially this>>2302. I would expect this kind of asinine ignorant diatribes from the average pseudointelectual imbecile roaming pol or leftypol, but not this board.
But since its coopted we might as well starting posting memes and other bottom-of-the-barrel appeals to debate that are actually nothing more but thinly-veiled attempts at ridiculing the opposition to censor it
Thats is COINTELPRO 101 level, but then again this entire site seems coopted with pointless discussions about "niggers" and "mudslimes" and other exaggerated remarks used just to destroy any chances of a serious conversation taking place
We just had a daily kos writer pretending to be a fringe lunatic in this site of which we only know because his own stupid amateurish moves (not unlike the one I'm seeing in this board right now) ended up getting the attention of the FBI and landing him on jail.
I guess the handlers for everyone in this board have already notified all involved about it and how not to fuck up to such an embarrassing degree, but you're getting there
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No.2317
>>2308
I just came back after a long absence. I left when the /fringe/-related threads starter popping up. So no, I didn't check the catalog. I just did and noticed the ongoing skirmishes between those who want to discuss cultural marxism and the guy who claims it doesn't exist - he's very repetitive in his writing style.
You mentioned a daily kos writer; are you talking about Joshua Goldberg or is it another guy?
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No.2319
.>>2308
>everything that doesn't agree with my talk radio-inspired garbage opinions is spam
okay, Cleetus, whatever you say.
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No.2333
Rick Roderick did amazing lecture on all of this, start with his one on Baudrillard and then "One Dimensional Man"
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No.2334
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No.2347
>>2299
Sir, do you understand that the concept of "cultural marxism" is not theoretical but practical? It is included within the scope of marxism because "post-modern degeneration" is exactly the practical characterization of cultural marxism, for in order to implement marxism, the population must discard "traditional" (i.e. pre-modern) social mores. Morality can be conceived as the opposite of degeneracy, because while strong unified morality within a culture should (theoretically, when practiced) advance civilization and not degenerate it.
I agree with you that the term "cultural marxism" has reached "meme-status" and I suggest that this is for at least two reasons. First, cultural marxism is ubiquitous in the West because the West is the source of mainstream media, and mainstream media seems to support trend towards marxism, apparently by their promotion of what traditionalists call "degeneracy." For example, it is not a cognitive but a gut reaction for a traditionalist to respond to a Bruce Jenner TV show as degenerate: lying to onesself about mental health is also not healthy, and the risk to children's worldview is obvious. Second, what solidifies the meme status is the general ignorance of people to the trend and its intended outcome. That is, people born in western societies still have a gut aversion, and without "mental gymnastics" don't necessarily understand why they oppose something, only that they oppose it. Thus they can identify what they consider to be "cultural marxism" (and I posit that indeed it is cultural marxism that they observe) however without the ability to describe what they see, they throw the term "cultural marxism" out and call it a day.
It would be easy to accuse people who use the term of being "conspiracy theorists" if not for the fact that the "theory" is widely published and its practice is far from hidden. The only opposition to marxism in general, is those who speak against it. They have no need anymore to hide it from us, since we (the children of baby boomers) grew up accepting that that was just another main idea of the world; we get either marxism or capitalism. Since most people don't care to learn history besides what is taught in schools, we are left with marxism most of the time.
I argue here that just because something has reached meme-status does not mean it is not widely present in a culture as a real concept. "Duck face" is as good an example as any: we all know what it is, we can identify it and perform it, and it encapsulates more ideas than just the facial expression itself. Just because it's a meme does not mean it isn't rampant. If anything, "meme-status" is only more evidence of its large presence within a culture.
By definition, cultural marxism IS a meme because we can all identify it and perform it, and we can all identify it because it is everywhere, or so I suggest.
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No.2348
>>2319
Cleetus isn't a name. An educated person (like one you would assume ISN'T named Cletus) would probably be aware of this, so knowing this I now ask you, is your name Cletus? I assume this based on your lack of displayed intelligence.
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No.2384
>>2249
> there is no such thing as cultural marxism
Yes, there is.
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No.2392
>>2298
You are in error. You are confusing what cultural marxism purports to be, as proclaimed by prominent alternative-right thinkers, to how the masses on /pol/ use the terminology. You think what the term is referring to is marxism, as an academic discourse, but it is not. Cultural marxism is referring to a specific set of goals preached in the communist manifesto and communist literature dating back to the first world war. It is cultural subversion, under the guise of marxist theory.
For example, communists in their literature promote the creation of a dissident black community, who will blame whites for their oppression, and thus further the class struggle that will bring about the "inevitable revolution".
This is what is meant by cultural marxism. However, I suspect you already knew all of this.
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No.2423
The psychology of anonymity
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No.2435
>>2423
>psychology
anonymity is a format not a psychology
the majority of anonymous traffic are bots
attempts to assign a pathology to anonymity are always come from institutional offense rather than objective analysis
a lot of what is discussed here is the mechanics of symbols and semiotics, and anonymity in of itself is a tool, to assign any ulterior motive to anonymity itself is usually in the interest of symbol management in banalizing internet users or to create some sort of an emergent boogeyman
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No.2468
>>2435
What I meant was the way anonymity might affect our minds if at all.
There's >>2101 but maybe there should be a more general thread.
Relevant: http://4-ch.net/net/kareha.pl/1442763088/ and it's X-posts and off-site links.
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No.2470
>>2298
So, if you'd like to stop being so arrogant in your ignorance, I could actually teach you what is going on. Its sort-of similar to what you think, but different enough that your paradigm is totally ineffective at combating it.
What do you think IS going on then? I'm quite interested.
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No.2480
>>2470
don't bother anon. Hegelianism is a nihilistic cancer that was founded for the express purpose of justifying transhumanist-oriented usury of human life. To put it bluntly and cutting an incredibly long story short, Hegel believes that the subconscious is this magical primordial soup that creates thought/thesis and that it is the consciousness's DUTY to generate Antithesis in order to propagate itself through Synthesis. What Hegels ignores is that the subconscious is inadvertently altered by the process which indicates that there must logically be an even more supernal realm of ideological emanation. Marxists hate this because it means there is sufficient ground in believing in a divine presence.
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No.2481
>>2280
oooh I love deleuzian rhizome theory. But unfortunately it's too caustic for the ego.
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No.2507
>>2470
I guess he didn't know
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