No.519
Hi 32.
For the past few years I have worked within government on a program to control the public's behaviour through behavioural economic techniques for altering non-rational human behaviour.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_economicsI have had teenagers in labs for the past two years trying to figure out how to get them to voluntarily install our tracking app. In the end they liked the messaging I came up with, and the app has been downloaded millions of times with rave reviews.
In essence I found that in teenagers it came down to two things:
1. social norms. If you convince them that everyone else is doing it, then they are much more likely to want to partake. This works both because people want to fit in, and because widespread use is seen as a tacit recommendation.
2. opportunity cost. If you demonstrate how much they stand to lose by not downloading it, they will download it more. This technique turns their attention from the risk of downloading it, to the risk of not downloading it.
These two techniques were then wrapped up in messaging which didn't appear to be directed at them, but was instead a passive conversation in their environment. We put posters up all over universities which were a conversation between two students that went roughly like
"hey you wanna come hang out?"
"Nah i gotta go hand in these forms"
"You're not using the new app like everyone else? just download it and meet me at the bar."
By using non-overt advertising, we were able to bypass the ad blindness the teenagers had already developed. In our experimentation we discovered that the teenagers would not consciously perceive the passive discussion in their vicinity as an ad, and would even replicate the prompted lines later among their friends, without realising they were repeating the ad.
In this way, the concept became viral, and we soon started seeing user reviews on the app which exactly matched the advertisements we had primed them with, which further reinforced others to accept the wisdom of the majority.
Happy to answer your questions.
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No.520
Behavioural economics has been all the rage in western governments over the past few years, and is commonly referred to as "the nudge"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsy1E3ckxlMEach government typically has a specialist nudge unit, who are brought in to analyse key problems each department faces.
The nudge specialists will attempt to alter the behaviour of the public without making the public feel they are being controlled. It is usually referred to as helping them make a decision which is better for them, but it is ultimately making them do what we want.
This concept has replaced a lot of older psychosocial and psychopolitical techniques, which often relied on rational actors. It incorporates economic market theories with evolutionary psychology to provide deep insights into human behaviour.
Economists often think of behavioural economics as the study of edge cases and exceptions to standard economic theories. Psychologists often think of it as being nothing more than experimental statistical economics. In reality the insights usually come from challenging the neo-classical idea of perfect self-interest.
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No.521
Thanks for sharing Anon. I suppose it is a stupid question to ask whether these tactic were used for the ACA ad campaign.
That sample convo sounds a lot like the radio ads I heard locally.
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No.525
We created a society in which it is in Power's interest to brainwash the masses. The system approaches its perfection.
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No.537
>>519>>520Very interesting posts. It seems like a concept is more likely to "go viral" if the message is received a certain way. The covert nature of the particular ad campaign's intentions that you laid out was instrumental in its adoption by the students. The viewers of the poster probably felt more inclined to pass on the information to other students since they felt more ownership of its idea than if it had been delivered in a more conventional format.
Technology and media have become central to our lives and have increased our exposure and susceptibility to these kinds of subtle behavioral change methods. The possibilities are a bit scary.
I am in school studying a related field and I struggle with the inherent manipulative aspect to these forms of public media (& new media, social media, etc) campaigns.
What drew you to the field?
How do you reconcile the moral gray area that this research falls into?
Anything you would recommend reading?
Thanks anon.
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No.538
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>The nudge specialists will attempt to alter the behaviour of the public without making the public feel they are being controlled.
Seen this first hand, it's always in a helpful way to solve a "problem". Even if that problem is insignificant statistically speaking and hundreds of millions of dollars are thrown at it out of nowhere you'll still be dismissed as a conspiracy theorist for saying that they're trying to change behaviors for a bigger hidden agenda. When it should be obvious that it is the case.
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No.554
>>521OP here
The Affordable Care Act absolutely uses the nudge, it was also used during Obama's electoral campaign.
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/05/obamacare-rollou-feds-use-nudge-theory-to-get-consumers-to-sign-up-for-five-years-not-one.html>>537I started in UI design which led to User Experience Design, from which Behavioural Economics is a natural progression.
It is a tool, just like other forms of propaganda, the moral grey area is the politics it is used to support and which decisions it leads us to. It is basically the nanny state incarnate "i know better than you".
A lot of this researched is is covered in economics journals, like the Journal of Behavioural Finance and the Journal of Economics. The two big pop sci books on it are "Predictably Irrational" and "Nudge", if you read those two you'll know more than the politicians who use it.
http://dremanbehavioralfinance.org/http://www.amazon.com/Nudge-Richard-H-Thaler/dp/0300144709 Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.555
>>537One thing I will say anon, is that when I got into this, I did agree with the things we were getting people to do and I thought it was all about helping people. We were ending obesity, stopping smoking and making people's lives easier. The one thing I failed to account for was just how involved the intelligence agencies would be in our public health campaigns.
Every message and program we came up with had to be cleared by the deep state, and we often had subtle messaging changes pushed on us by their in house experts. We weren't allowed time to study exactly what effects the changes had on people, but I could make some pretty good guesses.
The reality is that no government in the western world is actually controlled by the public, or by the politicians. Hell, we even had some of our work altered by the deep state in order to make the politicians more likely to support us.
At one point I worked on a plan for the future of government, and it was a long way from what most people today would be comfortable with. I am fairly certain they'll be comfortable with it by the time it gets here though, we are being primed.
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No.560
The gaming industry talks about this as Neuroeconomics, and they have such detailed information about their users behaviour that they are leading the practice in many ways. They are now moving towards a focus on the brain chemistry which drives our irrational behaviour, and are fine tuning the stimuli which drive our purchasing decisions. This has lead to the rise in microtransactions, preleveling and pay to win.
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/RaminShokrizade/20141202/230756/The_Rise_of_Game_Neuroeconomics.php Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.565
>>519>>520This is what I call quality posting. Thank you for taking the time to share this with us, OP.
1. social norms. (social proof)
2. opportunity cost. (scarcity)
This two points are deeply covered and expanded on the book "Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion" by Robert B. Cialdini. The author explains the "6 principles of influence", powerful manipulating tools that are used against us in a regular basis. I recommend everyone to give it a read. You really have no idea how many times we are being manipulated without ever realizing it.
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No.566
>>565*on a regular basis, small typo.
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No.568
>>554>>555I was thinking you might say something like this, and hoping you wouldn't. Very interesting. You had a fascinating career progression from UI design.
CHI is really spooky and interesting.
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No.570
>>560This is one of the comments on the article:
>It is also suggested that Barack Obama was not born within the United States, that global warming is a hoax, and that the moon landing was staged.What a clever way to derail the discussion from the important matters and paint the whole article as a conspiracy.
My question is: When people watch/read any source or material that challenges their beliefs, why the automatic response is to label the whole thing as a conspiracy or some made up crazy shit by a lunatic? (speaking specifically about the scenario where the reader is NOT a do it for free shill with the intention to derail)
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No.571
>>570I am gonna respond to his post and see what his answer (if any) is.
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No.572
>>571>Since you are a first time poster, your comment will be queued for approval. Expect to see it appear in the next 24 hours. When your first comment is approved, you will be able to post comments going forward immediately. Please adhere to Gamasutra.lel it is amazing how moderated comment sections (on politically correct sites) are. I will laugh if they don't approve it. The comment:
>It is also suggested that your response is a subtle way to derail the discussion from the important matters and paint the whole article as a conspiracy. Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.733
>>570>My question is: When people watch/read any source or material that challenges their beliefs, why the automatic response is to label the whole thing as a conspiracy or some made up crazy shit by a lunatic?Just a theory based on various bits of information about neurology:
First of all, as it's your brains highest goal to survive, the limbic brain areal will nearly always make you feel discomfort whenever something is about to change your status quo (which allowed you to survive perfectly fine up to this point), making it also a challenge to induce even good changes within a persons belief-system.
Plus, there is also the concept of consistency. If a person is committed to his believes, even more so if he committed to them in public, he or she is much more unlikely to change them, even in the face of new information. Someone recommended Cialdini in this thread, I think he wrote something on this subject in his book, good read.
Plus, changing your inner network is not fun at all, it's hard work. As far as I know and assuming my information is correct, it takes about 1,5 calories to think a new thought, or integrate it into your neurological web so to say. It takes only 0,1 to think or 'travel through' an already built synapse.
So I my guess (note the word guess) is that the feeling of discomfort, inner need for consistency and hardship of an inner change combine to build the barrier which is so hard to overcome for most people.
That's why we have people like OP, to build the stairs and give us a smooth nudge I guess.
Great thread OP, got me thinking.
Considering your organizations objective to influence the masses, I guess you've heard of Milton Erickson? If so, can you tell us about how his methods find application in your work? If not, what is your prime source of knowledge, or your sources? I really want to get deeper into the field and would be appreciative for any suggestions of good materials/readings/personalities.
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No.734
>>733(I'm sorry for the grammatical errors here and there, I'm not from an English speaking country.)
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No.769
In my highschool entrepreneurship class we learned about repetition (redundantly repeating), appeals to the majority (a million customers can't be wrong, all your friends do this, you should too), empty appeals to reason (#1 thinking now with 25% more reasoning -- more than what, top of what list?), and a slew of other tactics that folks simply now use more subtly and disect more thouroughly.
For instance, repeat a verse in a jingle or slogan or commentary a few times then incompletely repeat it to get subjects to reinforce the message by completing it themselves in their heads (used a lot in pop/alternative music); Or using sock puppets to get people to think their peers really are using some product.
Social engineering has been around for a very long time. Not saying this is nothing new, just that Op could save a lot out research time by reading a single chapter of my highschool business 101 course.
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