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/32/ - Psychopolitics

It's all in your head
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The IRC is active at Rizon's #32.

 No.1108

This is from a thread about "weaponized irony" on /pol/. The entire thread has some interesting posts but this one hits upon some topical points. Thoughts? Is it possible that /pol/ is manipulated through social engineering like that?
>>>/pol/1434239
____________________________
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 No.1127

Something similar seems to be happening to /pua/. All of a sudden there have been ironic pedo posts lately.
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 No.1140

the threads gone, could you give a summary of what 'weaponised irony' is?
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 No.1144

>>1140
Not OP. An idea is repeated as if it is just a joke. Serious ideas are treated as though they're completely ironic so that anyone espousing those ideas will become discredited as a joker or part of the joke.
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 No.1146

>>1140
the thread is archived take a look at the sticky

Weird Twitter and the ironic cloud - https://archive.today/V93Cr
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 No.1151

>>1144
Or, ironic ideas are treated as though they are completely serious so that they become a way to control conversation.
Basically, 'weaponised irony' is a way to muddle and control conversation.

Curious if anyone believes that the case of Ben Garrison and the edits promulgated on /pol/ are an example of an experiment in weaponised irony. At the very least it shows what an outside influence can achieve through a network like /pol/, with real life effects (detriment to his career).
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 No.1157

>>1140

Post serious ideas as ironic, implying that they should not be taken seriously. Anyone who takes them seriously is naive and/or stupid.

Post ironic ideas seriously, implying that they should be taken seriously and that they are a valid viewpoint, and anyone who insists on them being ironic is uninformed.

You can do either of them, both, and if you want to completely derail the topic post everything ironically (which may make people aware of what you are doing) or alternate from irony to seriousness apparently at random.
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 No.1160

>>1157

No one seems to mention that the proposal was never submitted. Are we assuming it was actually accepted?

I think you misunderstand irony. It appears that you interpret it as meaning "satirical" or "nonserious," forgive me if I misinterpret you. An ironic statement is one where there is a reversal of expectation. The way I see it, IMHO, is that irony is a statement with an overt and covert meaning. So an ironic statement is both serious and nonserious. The outsiders view the "serious" or overt meaning of the sentence but the insiders understand the covert meaning. The program they propose is developing a system to decode irony using semantics and even physiological testing.

There is also a different definition of irony which is less about communication and more about inducing a state of wonderment or confusion, like when a fire extinguisher factory burns down. This is what I think the weaponized aspect refers to.

They also propose the below offensive ideas.

From the article:

Without further fundamental research into the neurological and psychological basis of irony, it is difficult to say for certain how such systems might work, but the general mechanism is clear enough: irony manifestly involves a sudden and profound “doubling” of the inner life of the human subject. The ironizer no longer maintains an integrated and holistic perspective on the topic at hand but rather experiences something like a small tear in the consciousness, whereby the overt and covert meanings of a given text or expression are sundered. We do not now know just how far this tear could be opened—and we do not understand what the possible vital consequences might be. Even under the current lay or primitive deployments of irony, we see instances of disorientation, anger, and sometimes even despair. There is thus reason to hope that the irony of the future, suitably tuned, refined, and charged, might be mobilized to ” the enemy or possibly kill outright.


In light of the above paragraph I view weaponized irony as a form of manipulation that induces a state of cognitive dissonance. So I wouldn't necessarily define all shitposting on nazis as weaponized irony because they might fall under satire, slander, etc. We know that governments use sock puppets to subvert online communities, but does it use irony? Hard to tell.

Honestly I don't think 8chan pol is enough of a political threat for the government to be attacking it. I think all the forum sliding and shit posting is literally just people who lack the ability to make constructive posts. And while there are a lot of posts that seem like they must be shills or govt sock puppets, you'd be surprised the lengths that some people who just happen to be useful idiots will go.
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 No.1161

>>1160

It wasn't accepted because it was a satirical proposal. (just to add another level of irony to the whole thing)

The discussion it provokes has value though.
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 No.1168

>>1160
Has anyone considered the possibility that the authors of the article carefully constructed the entire thing ironically so as to make a point about the state of the academic community as a whole, and perhaps to satirize the power hungriness of the DoD?

When I saw this on /pol/ and read the article, I laughed. I didn't assume that the authors were evil and manipulative but assumed the authors were making a joke.

My field of study in grad school wasn't psychology, but having read some legitimate scientific papers on natural language syntax and semantics, and neurolinguistics, and having read some less-than-legitimate, pseudo science published alongside the legitimate stuff. I figured the authors were commenting on that, and to test the intelligence of the DoD grant-givers.
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 No.1169

File: 1426983201124.jpg (152.91 KB,760x596,190:149,overthinking.jpg)

This whole discussion has me thinking of pic related.
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 No.1209

File: 1427498514690.jpg (90.45 KB,750x514,375:257,Better Call Saul.jpg)

>>1157
Okay, help me understand.
Pic related was on the front page of Reddit today with the text "Better Call Saul" ( http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/30iehy/better_call_saul/ ). Is this weaponized irony?

>inb4 pleddit

I was solely browsing Reddit for...research purposes.
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 No.1210

>>1209
>Is this weaponized irony?
I think it's just humor. Honestly, we can't really tell at the present time.

No one here cares that you browse Reddit
If they do, they are in the wrong place
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 No.1241

>>1168
Not really because the information's mostly all out there already. Beside public bid requests from DARPA and air force and naval research, the HBGary Federal hack showed internal documents of a government contractor trying to sell social media influencing botnet software to the Pentagon. And I was personally aware of AI research into decoding irony long before the articles because when I was in university I did AI research.
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 No.1307

>>1209
i think it's serious -- dude is probably fed up of bitchy cops on power trips and using the 'law' against the 'law actors'

in that sense it could be 'weaponized irony'
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 No.1368

>>1241
It wouldn't be the first field of research that was a "joke." Lavender linguistics is the study of how gay people use language, however all of the principles of lavender linguistics are encompassed by sociolinguistics. There is nothing that separates a gay persons speech from another persons speech capability and it's frankly absurd within the current paradigm to assume there would be a difference. It's anything but the null hypothesis. Still there were people who said they were "lavender linguists" and they presented papers and talked about it as though it were its own separate thing. To the semanticists and syntacticians and even the sociolinguists it was a joke. I imagine there are such jokes in every field.

I don't really know anything about AI, but from a discourse standpoint, irony, is just another type of semantic "joke." Your mind expects one thing and hears another. In other words it's not extremely interesting (not nearly as much as an accurate denotation of the copula, e.g.) but, I'm here to learn otherwise!

At first I just thought it was an ironic article about academia and the military industry.
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 No.1605

>>1368

There's no reason it can't both be a joke and be a serious application of weaponized mind-fuckery.

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 No.1610

File: 1430374533101.jpg (42.13 KB,182x255,182:255,1425964491296.jpg)

In terms of mapping social interactions and content algorithmically irony, sarcasm, and 'insider culture/messages' can cause communications actual messages to be hidden in plain sight from AI and skew actual meaning.

Yes,

algorithms are great at picking up concepts via text dialogues, but

things like sarcasm and irony are much harder to detect.

Here's a sarcastic statement that would have trouble being detected:

> I reallllllllllly want to study for my exam tonight…

While

the algorithm may detect and ascribe values to each word it can't

easily understand the concept. In this case the algo would likely think

the user actually wanted to study for the exam a lot.

Another example of sarcasm as a defense:

> You're soooooo smart…

Again, the algo would think that the person was calling someone smart with emphasis; when in reality it's the opposite.

The

difficult is that this type of thing leads to a gray area in terms of

detection where it's hard to actually quantify what is being meant (by

an AI). They may ascribe multiple periods (…) to sarcasm, but it

wouldn't always be correct.

-----

As for Irony:

It'd

have to be a chaining of conflicting terms across a post, I'd presume.

But, it'd also have to factor in if one of the posts was sarcastic.

For irony:

"I'm so tired of these fascist assholes crashing our parades :C"

followed by a post of

"Got this racist fuck kicked off campus! No hate here, assholes!"

Which

has irony embedded in multiple layers, as demonstrated by the

iron-fisted approach to the original problem, and the comparison of

directing a string of identifying terms like "no hate" to a directed

response of ",assholes!" while also somehow recognizing that the order

of distaste towards "fascist assholes" later links to the mentioned

"assholes" in the second comment.

It's rather interesting really,

seems like it'd be a string of codes trying to determine a certain

length that would constitute irony by identifying positive and negative

words, associating them with subjects, and then comparing those subjects

to text-speak inflections such as drawn out lettering. The biggest

problems would likely come from "txt spk" where words aren't so easily

identified as words or misspellings and can create multiple meanings

because people who use shorthand type are usually incredibly stupid.

-----

I'll beak down the first irony example for fun (trying to think in linguistic/language/AI terms):

> "I'm so tired of these fascist assholes crashing our parades :C"

I'm = Self reference

so = Emphasis on next word

tired = Connotation of worn down, energy expended

of these facist = what the self referencer is tired of

crashing = verb associated with destroying or bringing down

our parades = our herd mentality group/club that they are in opposition of

:C= memetic text face indicating a frown

The

interesting part here is that using a verb like crashing an AI would

need to associate likely synonyms based on contextual clues. I think it

could easily be done in code. Synonyms and like-word-replacement seem to

be key.

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