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No.51864
I posted this on /b2 originally. It did not go well. Maybe this is a better home for my interests.
I'm interested in alternatives to mainstream history. Recently I have been watching videos from this guy on his The Observation Deck channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaKuosQRAchAOrN0-y4SW1A
I'm wondering if any of you have similar interests or interesting links on this subject.Feel free to post them here and share what you know.
It seems like there was a massive slavic empire which spanned most of Eurasia from the Caspian sea to the edge of modern China. It was called Tartari. Probably wiped out by the Mongols.
There was a mud-flood of some sort which buried ancient buildings all over the world, which were later dug up and repurposed as 17th century buildings.
The dating of history is a huge lie. For example they say Pompei was burried in 79 AD but ancient maps show it existing right up until the 16th century. A Russian mathematician named Fomenko asserts in his 'New Chronology' that a huge chunk of time was simply made up by the church using copy pasta'd centuries with the names simply changed. Including the dark ages which lack any written record because they simply did not exist.
The paracas skulls are a completely different species of people with elongated skulls. They were highly intelligent and had advanced civilizations including what we think of as ancient Egypt. Look at any of the depictions of the old pharoahs with their elongated skulls. This ties into many theories of the Pyramid of Giza being used as a power plant, not a burial chamber. Ancient advanced tech that has been covered up, including antigravity and free energy.
There were giants all over the world, who had their own cities and civilizations, but they have been erradicated and the history of them has been covered up. The Smithsonian played a large part in destroying the many many skeletal remains of giants found all over the Americas right up into the early 18th century.
There seems to be so much history that has been intentionally altered to fabricate the world we live in today. The rabbit hole is deep and very intriguing.
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No.51866
>Alternative History
AAAAAAWWWW YEAH BABEEEE–
>Le Grand Tartaria psy ops
God damn it every time.
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No.51867
>>51864
Alternative history is a huge subject, with many different theories all competing with each other. For example, the people like Graham Hancock and Randall Carlson who talk about antediluvian civilizations, are still working within the framework of mainstream history, they just think history goes back further in time than it's normally accepted; while Fomenko and the 'new chronology' movement are working in the opposite direction, towards a history that's no more than 1k years old.
Personally, I tend to side with the 'antediluvians', because their theories are supported by a vast amount of evidence of various kinds (archaeological, linguistic, historical, etc); and also because Fomenko's arguments seem really weak to me, for a variety of reasons. I think he's mixing a little truth with a lot of speculation, and his followers are no better than him.
The channels I follow are:
Bright Insight: this is the best in my opinion. He's smart, open-minded but rational, and his videos are always informative and well-balanced.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsIlJ9eYylZQcyfMOPNUz9w
Ancient Architects: he mostly talks about ancient Egypt, often providing his own theories, which are always surprising and thought-provoking.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCscI4NOggNSN-Si5QgErNCw
Atlantean Gardens: he's a trained scientist who's basically a national-socialist. As such, his videos are well made and offer an alternative point of view on many matters regarding history, anthropology and religion.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0gkKMGpCgyun7OoEOseryg
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No.51868
Yeah? Is it a big fake? I wish you would have elaborated on it. The Tartaria stuff is new to me. I've been interested in pyramids and cyclical disaster stuff for a looooong time but this was a new twist, and there are a lot of old maps that are intriguing.
I've seen the wikipedia entry for Tartaria as just a general term for unexplored areas of Eurasia, but I generally disbelieve anything Wikipedia has to say because of how controlled the content is there. Alternative theories rarely survive long on Wikipedia.
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No.51869
I feel like Fomenko might have been on to something. Powerful people use propaganda to control less powerful people. The book 1984 has a lot to say about how 'The Party' controls history for their own ends. Applying that logic to the all powerful Catholic church across the past hundreds of years and think about the vast Vatican library that is kept secret. Or how about the Library of Alexandria. So much is lost. It's not inconceivable that the history we are taught to accept, is just a big fake based on fantasy and guesswork at best or outright deception at worst.
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No.51870
>>51869
There's no doubt that history is fake to some degree, since every ruler twists and censors the facts to serve his aims. I doubt Nero fully deserved the bad reputation he got, for example. And obviously, since we're on 8chan, everyone here knows that the victors of WWII have successfully brainwashed most people into believing the losing side was pure evil. But to go from there, to saying all of history before the middle ages is completely fake, well it's a big step, to say the least.
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No.51871
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No.51872
>>51871
Also, they a weren't viped out by The Mongols, they were vassals of the Mongols and later ruled Russia as a Tributary Empire until the Muskovites overthrew them and conquered them to establish the Russian Empire.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasion_of_Kievan_Rus%27
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No.51883
OK. Here in the west they give us next to no history of Eurasia other than the big stuff like Ghengis Khan and the Mongolian horde, and even then it's glossed over. In fact the western 'education system' in general is a festering pile of crap designed to produce an endless horde of obedient factory workers and not free thinkers.
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No.51890
>Explorers search for alleged golden cities of Cibola
>Find no such thing, but are told of "Quivira"
>There they had news of Axa and Quivira: where, it was said, “was a king, whose name was Tartarrax, with a long beard, hoary-headed, and rich; which was girded with a Bracamart; which prayed upon a pair of beads; which worshipped a cross of gold and image of a woman the queen of heaven.
>Tartarrax
>Tartar Rex
I wasn't keen on this before and still doubt its veracity, but with this, along with all the historic maps, I'm now unnerved to say the least.
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No.51892
>>51890
>Francisco Vásquez de Coronado leaves priests in Quivira
>Later explorers discover the king is now a devout Marian Catholic
Seems about right.
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No.51901
>>51890
Some of the maps of Tartari that I saw included North America.
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No.51902
>>51890
Why would the king of Tartarians live in America? And use a latin name? Makes no sense to me.
>>51892
Mary wasn't the first 'queen of Heaven' to be worshipped… That title had been used to describe many goddesses before. The cross is also a pre-Christian symbol.
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No.51920
These alternative history "theories" might be interesting if they weren't cooked up by people with very limited understanding of historiography, linguistics, geography and just about everything used to study history. Mainstream understanding of the past is already filled with tantalizing enigmas, so I don't really get the point of getting worked up by these global conspiracy required clustefucks.
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No.51931
>>51920
Do you think mainstream historians and egyptologists have a good understanding of history? They still think the pyramids are tombs, and civilization is only a few thousands years old. Their understanding is outdated at best. I'm not saying the alternative researchers are always right, quite the contrary, but at least they're willing to consider new evidence and aren't afraid to think outside the box.
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No.51979
>>51920
I understand perfectly - it's just so improbable that any of what's been hypothesized could have gone completely under the radar, whether forced or accidental, and only 200+ years later are people finally saying something. What happened to those who had firsthand knowledge? Couldn't have killed them all, could they?
The main thing I'm willing to concede to the theorists is that it was a country prior to the incorporation of Tatarstan. It had a flag which was cited in many different sources - a blue dragon/griffon/whatever on a yellow background. But where was its global relevance, if any? Why focus on this otherwise insignificant Eurasian nation, and not say, Croatia? Else it's the same as I've said - lovely concept, but little evidence.
The thing that gets me though is where the fuck did they get the "Tartar" name from? They could have called it anything, but why "King Tartarrax" of "Tartarorium"?
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No.51984
>>51979
If it's a dragon, could it reference "here be dragons"?
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No.51985
>>51984
I'm not sure what you mean, but 'hic sunt dracones' was written on ancient maps to signify that certain areas were dangerous. What would it have to do with a country's flag?
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No.51988
>>51979
There seems to be several flags throughout history bearing similar resemblance:
Firstly, we have the flag used by the Qing Dynasty, which featured a blue dragon on a yellow background. There was apparently a "Chinese Tartary" as well with Hami Hotun (now known as Kumul - Hotun as I've found out is an early anglicized version of 小村庄/Xiǎo cūnzhuāng which means small village, evidently simplified to Xiǎo cūn) as its capital. Wikipedia article for Hami/Kumul does not mention it ever being a capital of any country or area, though it was highly contested
Next, we have the flag for Somerset, which appears to have the same creature depicted on the Tartary flag, except it's the wrong color and the wrong orientation.
Pomerania in Poland and Sodermanland in Sweden both have very similar flags to one another - a black example of this creature at the same angle against a background of the same color. Apparently these are descended from the flag for the HRE, the main favorite for the Tartards to consider as their Empire, with Ottoman in second.
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No.51999
>>51979
There was a coat of arms for Alexander of Macedon that was widely accepted among the late medieval heraldists, so do you presume Alexander was actually a knight during the Middle Ages?
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No.52001
>>51999
What's with the dragons wearing gemstones on their heads?
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No.52044
>>51988
dude tartary/tartaria was just a generic term for lands relatively unexplored inhabited by Turkic/Mongolic peoples. It wasn't one united empire. It's like if before manifest destiny we called the area west of Mississippi "Amerindia" to designate the region is inhabited by Native Americans. It doesn't mean it's one united empire fucking hell.
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No.52045
>>51999
Alexander has been depicted in different ways in different times and cultures…
>>52001
I don't know, but that detail was also mentioned in Life of Apollonius of Tyana, a book written around a thousand years earlier. Apollonius was a wise man who travelled to India and supposedly saw lots of dragons there. The book said that Indians hunted the dragons in order to get the gemstones on their heads. So it's not just a silly medieval belief, apparently it's quite ancient.
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No.52046
>>52045
I have never even heard of that before. I'll have to get around to reading it sometime. I found it as pdf here https://ryanfb.github.io/loebolus-data/L016N.pdf
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No.52047
>>52046
It's an interesting little book. There's a part where Apollonius meets a group of mysterious men who live in a hidden space and who claim to know everything. From what I remember, they also had advanced technology and were so wise and powerful that kings came to ask for their advice and obeyed their orders. They teach Apollonius about the true nature of the universe, etc, and when he goes back to Rome, he has gained the ability to teleport (which he uses to troll the Emperor).
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No.52052
Alternate history is cool but you Tartaria niggers are annoying. You just throw common sense out the window
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No.52059
>>52044
It's just weird though, especially when you consider how many maps did it. They spent most of the 1800s redrawing Africa when most of it was already known, other than the extent of the Sahara and a couple of inaccuracies. Couldn't they have sent some guy to the top of Eurasia to accurately map the boundaries of Mongolia, Russia, China, and the actual country which became Tatarstan instead of just labelling it all after the latter and then proclaiming it to be the largest country on the planet?
To me, it's more like if a world map, instead of listing the countries such as France, Spain etc. It was just one big "Europa", with the EU flag a good 100 or so years before it even existed. Instead of Frenchmen or Spaniards, they're simply referred to as "Europeans". It just seems so bizarre. Why make up a flag that doesn't exist? Why standardize that flag? I get the "Flag of Nations" source isn't completely trustworthy since it lists "Pirates" and some seemingly fictional "Arabia" and "Jerusalem" flags from a time when both would have been owned by the Ottoman Empire, but why did so many sources of the era seem convinced it was a real thing with a real flag? That's what I don't get.
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No.52068
>Why make up a flag that doesn't exist
It did exist though. But it wasn't an multi-continental advanced nation filled with giants
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tartary
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No.52084
>>52059
No it's not really weird at all.
"The usage of "Tartary" declined as the region became more known to European geographers; however, the term was still used long into the 19th century.[7] Ethnographical data collected by Jesuit missionaries in China contributed to the replacement of "Chinese Tartary" with Manchuria in European geography by the early 18th century.[8] The voyages of Egor Meyendorff and Alexander von Humboldt into this region gave rise to the term Central Asia in the early 19th century as well as supplementary terms such as Inner Asia,[9] and Russian expansionism led to the term "Siberia" being coined for the Asian half of the Russian Empire.[10]"
It was basically a name of a region.
https://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/ru-16_h.html
Also that's clearly a flag of the Kazan Khanate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khanate_of_Kazan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrakhan_Khanate
They're conflating scattered mongol remnants with many asiatics/turks in general and incorrectly applying the flag of the Kazan Khanate to the region as a whole.
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No.52085
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No.52127
>>52044
This. It's the same as thinking the Sahara is some great empire, simply because it has a name.
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No.52186
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No.52189
>>52186
Wow, how did you even find out about him? That's some pretty obscure stuff. Have you read his books?
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No.52201
>>52189
well he's kind of a meme in serbia and ex-yu countries, i havent read his books but i've seen youtube videos of him talking about the subjects, some of them are pretty funny but i haven't gone much into it
since i'm a native of his language if there's interest, i could read and write summaries of some of his books
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No.52203
>>52201
If he's just a crazy old man writing about his crazy theory, you probably shouldn't spend time and effort translating his books. But a general summary would still be nice, just to know how he came to his conclusions.
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No.52205
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No.52206
>>52203
he seems pretty serious about it and he's spent a lot of his life propagating the theory
from serbian wikipedia, "herodotus says that in the east mediterranean a bay is found for which the greeks thought is a lake, and he calls it "serbonidos limne" (transcribed into cyrillic), for which deretic claims to mean "the serbian lake"
googling σερβονιδοσ λιμνε (the original name) brings up this link:
https://books.google.rs/books?id=NIY-AAAAcAAJ&pg=PA784&lpg=PA784&dq=%CF%83%CE%B5%CF%81%CE%B2%CE%BF%CE%BD%CE%B9%CE%B4%CE%BF%CF%82+%CE%BB%CE%AF%CE%BC%CE%BD%CE%B5%CF%82&source=bl&ots=huKWN0fPie&sig=ACfU3U0roP6GMTsrq8nNza1k-ztFpIxEiA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjskf7ZzKLjAhUlAhAIHTP3AdgQ6AEwAHoECAAQAQ#v=onepage&q=%CF%83%CE%B5%CF%81%CE%B2%CE%BF%CE%BD%CE%B9%CE%B4%CE%BF%CF%82%20%CE%BB%CE%AF%CE%BC%CE%BD%CE%B5%CF%82&f=false
but since my latin has deteriorated over the years, and i've never formally studied attic greek, i can't confirm nor deny his claims
then there's a couple of unsourced claims of toponyms all containing "serb" as their root, most of them in the balkans but one in england, serberiam, whose name was changed in the 15th-16th century to salisburry (google gives me https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salisbury)
then he claims that the ancient name for sofia, bulgaria's capital, was actually serbica instead of serdica (this one may make sense, since the serbian cyrillic lowercase B (б) is very similar to greek lowercase D (δ
then his book "Serb people and race, New Vulgate" is supposedly entirely based on the old testament, but not treating is at as a legitimate historical source, but rather as a basis, which he then compares to other historical sources, and from that derives his conclusions
as a bonus, an entirely different historian claudius ptolemy mentions a nation called serbs in illyricum, modern day herzegovina (bosnia and herzegovina)
that's just from wikipedia but i don't think anyone cares enough for me to read the books
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No.52576
>>51864
mud flood brainlet, its the stupidest thing around
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