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File: 38175532f5e05fc⋯.png (866.03 KB, 2208x1242, 16:9, LOTR pill.png)

 No.32557

Is LOTR based off ancient Atlantis? Is Conan the Barbarian and Hyboria the age before it? People tell me that if you talk about this on 4chan the threads get 404'd.

 No.32558

>>32557

Please don't make Tolkien and Robert E. Howard roll in their graves.


 No.32559

>Is LOTR based off ancient Atlantis?

Well, there are sunken, lost lands (Beleriand, Numenor), so it probaby takes inspiration from myths like Atlantis and Ys.

>Is Conan the Barbarian and Hyboria the age before it?

Nope, it's a different setting. There's nothing "before" Tolkien's writings, it starts from the utmost beginning. If anything it could be after the Fourth Age, but it's a stretch.


 No.32562

>>32557

As far as I know, Tolkien based LOTR on European mythology with some Christianity mixed in. He obviously knew about Atlantis but I've never read the books so I don't know how much of an influence it was.

I'm pretty sure Atlantis existed and was the source of many ancient civilisations. According to Plato, Atlantis was founded by Poseidon, the brother of Zeus and Hades. What's interesting to me is that you find the same deities in Sumerian mythology, except they're called Enki (Poseidon), Enlil (Hades) and Anu (Zeus) and they rule respectively over the sea, the underground and the sky. So Enki was the one who founded Atlantis, and according to Sumerians, Enki was also the god who liked men and wanted to protect them, while Enlil found us annoying.

After the flood, the Atlantean tradition lived on in Egypt and other countries where the survivors had found refuge, but mainly in Egypt. However the true history of Atlantis was remembered only by a few priests. For most people the Atlantean kings, which had been the progeny of Enki/Poseidon, became gods themselves.

Now that I think about it, there are definitely a few themes in LOTR that could be traced back to Atlantis. For example the elves and other deities, who are immortal but sometimes mix with humans, creating men who live longer than usual (this is what supposedly happened when Poseidon founded Atlantis, he took a human female as his wife and their children became the first kings). The idea that some bloodlines are superior to others, and that the golden age ends when the blood starts getting too diluted. The idea of a far-away land inhabited by the gods (this is how Atlantis was considered when it still existed, and this memory then survived in some mythologies). The idea that at some point, all the gods left, and men were allowed to rule over the earth.

Still, I wouldn't say that LOTR should be considered history. At best, it's based on mythology which is based on history. I find it sad how so many people become obsessed with LOTR, which is fantasy, when they could be studying history, which is just as interesting (and unlike LOTR, it's also true). Instead of trying to learn the made-up Elvish language, why not learn ancient Greek or Sanskrit?


 No.32564

>>32562

>Enki (Poseidon), Enlil (Hades) and Anu (Zeus)

But that's completely wrong. Enki is more like Hermes, and doesn't rule over the sea (as if Sumerians gave a fuck about the sea); Enlil doesn't rule the underworld and is a divine king, more like Zeus; Anu is a god of heaven, father and king of the gods, but no one cares about him, so he's kind of like Uranus. The two triads aren't really comparable and stem from different mythologies.

And if the myth of Atlantis wasn't Plato's invention, why do all mentions of it stem from his work? Such a splendid and powerful civilization would have left some trace other than some old priest who conveniently told the story to Critias' ancestor before it disappeared forever. Yet Homer, Hesiod, Berossus, Manetho, countless papyri and tablets are silent.

As for Atlantis being the primordial civilization from which all others derived (something that Plato doesn't even hint at), that's even less believable. Did all those peoples just forget about their cradle? Why are the oldest civilizations so far from the Atlantic Ocean, deeply rooted in the prehistoric valleys of great rivers?

>The idea of a far-away land inhabited by the gods

Atlantis was inhabited by men, not gods, men that were defeated by the noble Athenians. How it was considered when it "still existed" is not something you or anyone would know.

The fact that gods have to live somewhere doesn't really call for an historical explanation.

>The idea that at some point, all the gods left, and men were allowed to rule over the earth.

What idea? That would have never crossed the mind of an ancient man, for whom the gods were very much present and world-ruling.


 No.32566

>>32564

>The god Ea (whose Sumerian equivalent was Enki) is one of the three most powerful gods in the Mesopotamian pantheon, along with Anu and Enlil. He resides in the ocean underneath the earth called the abzu (Akkadian apsû), which was an important place in Mesopotamian cosmic geography.

http://oracc.museum.upenn.edu/amgg/listofdeities/enki/

>When Enlil was a young god, he was banished from Dilmun, the home of the gods, to the Underworld, for raping his future consort, the young grain goddess Ninlil.

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Enlil

>Anu was described as the father of the 50 "great gods," as the god of heaven, lord of constellations, king of gods, and the father of spirits and demons.

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Anu

The similarity between the Sumerian and Greek trinities is pretty obvious…

>And if the myth of Atlantis wasn't Plato's invention, why do all mentions of it stem from his work?

They don't, that's just a popular misconception. Check this out:

http://www.atlantisquest.com/Timeline.html

Atlantis was talked about centuries before Plato, it just had slightly different names or it wasn't referenced to by name. The oldest known account is 6,000 years old, in other words, as old as writing itself.

>As for Atlantis being the primordial civilization from which all others derived (something that Plato doesn't even hint at), that's even less believable. Did all those peoples just forget about their cradle?

No, which is why so many cultures around the world have a flood myth, but the memory has faded and become distorted after so many generations. Keep in mind that we're talking about a story that's 116 centuries old. It's a miracle that it has even survived this long. Ignatius Donnelly spent almost a hundred pages talking about the traditions of Atlantis in his famous book 'Atlantis, the Antediluvian World'.

"We thus find the sons of Ad at the base of all the most ancient races of men, to wit, the Hebrews, the Arabians, the Chaldeans, the Hindoos, the Persians, the Egyptians, the Ethiopians, the Mexicans, and the Central Americans; testimony that all these races traced their beginning back to a dimly remembered Ad-lantis."

>Why are the oldest civilizations so far from the Atlantic Ocean, deeply rooted in the prehistoric valleys of great rivers?

You answered your own question. In ancient times, it was considered a good idea to build a city or village near a river, because it provided easy access to water.

>Atlantis was inhabited by men, not gods, men that were defeated by the noble Athenians.

When the Athenians fought them, the Atlanteans were no longer what they once had been. The first 10 rulers of Atlantis were all sons of Poseidon, they had divine blood flooding through their veins. After many generations however, the divine blood became diluted with human blood, and Atlantis became corrupted and warlike.

>How it was considered when it "still existed" is not something you or anyone would know.

Plato tells us that Atlantis received gifts from many foreign countries, and as far as we know it was the richest, most powerful, most civilised country at the time. Thus the Atlanteans would have been considered gods by the less civilised peoples of the world (even disregarding the fact that its kings and princes were descendants of Poseidon).

>What idea? That would have never crossed the mind of an ancient man, for whom the gods were very much present and world-ruling.

World-ruling, sure, but from afar. The actual physical rulers were human, ruling over other humans, while in a remote past you would have answered directly to a god.


 No.33007

>>32557

>Is LOTR based off ancient Atlantis?

No. Part of the Silmarillion is though (Númenor, it's even referred to as Atalantë).




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