/v/ - Video Games

or you could use a mouse and a keyboard

>>16915610

Enjoy your carpal tunnel.

That looks too cluttered, remove some buttons, especially the share button, and the touchscreen.

I don't give a fuck about touchpads or headphone jacks or whatever other gay shit they throw on to controllers these days. All I want is a sturdy, good quality, gimmick-free, dualshock-stick-layout controller, but with 6 face buttons instead of 4.

It would be the perfect controller for emulation, whether it's Genesis, SNES, Saturn, or N64; virtually all bases would be covered. Except for the Wii, but I ain't talkin bout that Wii. Sheeeit

>>16915612

That actually happens more with controllers than mouse and keyboard since your hands stay in the exact same position the entire fucking time you underage cunt.

>>16915588

>✡share✡ button

Get the fuck out of here. The perfect controller is a keyboard and mouse.

>>16915730

I wonder what playing videogames with two joysticks instead of analog sticks would be like. If you had eight buttons always within reach on either joystick, you'd never have the issue of sacrificing movement or camera control to press a button. I mean, assuming you don't already do some insane claw-grip on your gamepad.

>>16915767

>Did PS4 games actually even use the touch-screen for anything besides just turning it into a GIANT SELECT BUTTON?

Yes, in Japan they use it to write Kanji.

>>16915730

The new PS5 controller has no advantages over what OP posted, and it has quite less features.

>>16915792

Pretty retarded, there is a reason why joysticks are not used for small, quick movements (what most games do) but for constant, directional input.

>>16915792

play Steel Battallion and find out

>>16915830

>share button

>gameplay

the two buttons below the left stick in OP are going to be prone to accidental pressing

the two buttons below the primary 4 on the right mimic the placement of the black and white buttons on one of the Xboxhuge controller designs. The worst one. Move them to the upper right of the primary 4, making it resemble the comfy of the 6-button Genesis/Mega Drive

the two buttons on either side of the top of the touchscreen would be very inconvenient to press no matter how you hold it. What function could they possibly have that can't be handled by start and select?

>>16915767

I actually have one of those already. It's alright for what it is, but it feels cheap as fuck (the shoulder buttons wobble like hell, and the plastic in general feels more like something you'd pull out of a happy meal), and it's also way too light weight for my tastes. It used to just fall out of my hands whenever I lifted my thumbs, because what little weight it did have was up near the shoulder buttons, so I ended up opening mine up and sticking some coins to the hollow insides of the grips to balance it out.

There's also the glaring omission of analog sticks (and triggers), which means it's useless for the N64 and later systems, as well as controller-based PC games. I basically want a Hori Fighting Commander but with better build quality, dual analog sticks, analog triggers, and rumble because who doesn't love rumble. Then it'll be the only controller I'll ever need.

>unless the issue is that you don't want to swap controllers EVER

That's the dream man.

>>16915862

>muh share button

Whether you like it or not, Normies love taking screenshots and so do channers. Did you also miss all buttons being remappable from the OP?

>the two buttons below the left stick in OP are going to be prone to accidental pressing

Not if they are recessed buttons.

>one of the Xboxhuge controller designs. The worst one.

Which is why the most used PC controllers are directly based on the Xbox Controller S. Shit opinion tbh.

>Move them to the upper right of the primary 4, making it resemble the comfy of the 6-button Genesis/Mega Drive

Bad suggestion, you can easily press 3 buttons at once with a single thumb on the current layout.

>the two buttons on either side of the top of the touchscreen would be very inconvenient to press no matter how you hold it.

>implying people can't press the equivalent PS4 buttons

Which is why they had non-essential functions.

>What function could they possibly have that can't be handled by start and select?

Start=In-game menu

Select=Pause

Home=Steam Overlay, Console Home, Emulator Menu, Minimize to OS…

>>16915730

>That feel when you're a programmer who's gotten used to mechanical feedback, and there's shit all options for ergonomic mechanical keyboards

Guess I'll just continue rotating my keyboard all over the place like it's a fucking compass needle

I'm fairly sure that taking breaks and doing wrist exercises every couple of hours alleviates these problems anyway. I've never had issues and I've been working for 5 years on top of playing tons of vidya including MOBAshit greatly in the past. I get more worried about my back posture.

>>16915648

>All I want is a sturdy, good quality, gimmick-free, dualshock-stick-layout controller, but with 6 face buttons instead of 4.

360 controller with Elite extra buttons/programability would be perfect to me. I still like the XOne, but 360 has a better weight and tougher shell.

>>16915967

>normies

>channers

>>16916090

Too small for my tastes. Great when I was a kid, but only fitting for manlets and or Japan. Same with PS2 tbh.

>>16916100

I mean PS in general.

>>16915944

Jeez, I often see Hori praised so I had no idea the build quality was so bad. But like I said, you can remap Z/C to L1/R1 for genesis/saturn emulation and it works fine even if it's not authentic. For N64 emulation, retroarch by default has a feature where holding R2 changes the face buttons to all be c-buttons which works well for a lot of games, but it's not perfect so I feel you there, a conventional controller with 6 face buttons would be pretty nice.

>>16915976

There are people who use controllers for MOBAs?!

>>16915980

Elite's extra buttons are paddles prone to breaking, as are other "133t gamer" equivalents I've seen like Razer and Scug.

>>16916100

My hands are huge and I've never had issues using either The Duke or Dualshocks. I can't empathize at all. Do you use the tip of your thumb or the entire thumb to press buttons? Because it should definitely be the latter.

>>16916211

This has always confused me as well, I wish they'd post a picture of themselves holding a PS controller.

>>16916211

I don't recall exactly, and now I can't test it again since I've dumped most of my equipment. I'm 6'5" though, if that's any indicator of my hands.

>>16916332

>Too small for my tastes. Great when I was a kid, but only fitting for manlets and or Japan

>I'm 6'5" though

Anon, you're taller than 99.559% of Americans.

>>16916343

*Adult American Men anyways, assuming an average of 5'9.3", and an SD of 2.94".

>>16916343

In any case, the Xbox is just right to me (but the 360 was the best).

>>16916355

That doesn't seem entirely different than me. It could just be that I'm too used to XB/DC sizes.

>>16915610

>>16915755

>Get into a vehicle

>Can only go full speed or no speed

>Can only slam the steering wheel fully left or right to turn

Ah yes, flawless control scheme.

It should be shaped like the steam controller.

Best Ergo

>>16915725

>Everything today is the same dual analog setup with quad face buttons and triggers for good measure.

That's because microsoft COMPLETELY dicked over the Direct Input scene. Which annihilated third party peripheral manufacturers.

>>16916397

That track pad/lack of right analog stick killed it for me though. I literally tossed mine in the trash. If I want a mouse, I'll just use a mouse. Trying both in one is a terrible idea.

>>16916380

>Being too blind to read the numpad

>Not using the mouse to turn

>>16916225

>look more MOBAs up

>even LoL is coming to consoles

wew, PC cancer is spreading

>>16916354

>B-belkin Nostromos are competitive in FPS/RTS

Those together are a worse options than either a keyboard+mouse or a plain controller. Ironically, they are better tools for non-gaming applications.

>How about Select, and Start

>muh share button

>Hold Select - Minimize

Did you miss that all buttons were re-programmable to whatever you wanted too?

>Wrong, it's for fluid directional change and acceleration.

Acceleration is constant directional input, dummy.

>The reason we get nice quality of life things like lock-on for 3rd person action games is because of the limitations of controllers.

No, it was because casuals suck and needed help. Controllers are fine without lock-on/auto-aim, you just need to git gud and we can't have that in [current year].

>>16916404

The touch pad works great if you use it in conjunction with gyro, it's pretty shit by itself.

>>16916354

>Have you ever heard of "simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" or how about "right tool for the job"?

>wants simple, specialized tools

>on a thread meant for a controller than can play anything

People joking with KB+mouse are one thing, but you took autism to a new level.

>>16916410

I didn't know I could even do that. Not as straightforward as a stick, but better than the trackpad alone.

>>16916373

>Needs 21 keys and a mouse to halfass what two sticks do

So much for the masterace.

>>16916409

>RTS

Who the fuck said RTS nigger.

>worse options than either a keyboard+mouse or a plain controller.

>worse than a controller

This has to bait

>Did you miss that all buttons were re-programmable to whatever you wanted too?

And yet you felt the need to have a separate button anyway like a fucking retard.

>No, it was because casuals suck and needed help. Controllers are fine without lock-on/auto-aim, you just need to git gud and we can't have that in [current year].

Go play the original version of Ninja Gaiden and then play Black. The one camera change where they focus more on the boss made some of them far more enjoyable and less janky. Also tell me how to have all the benefit of analog style movement independent from the camera, can maintain focus on an object, and have access to the face buttons at the same time. Protip you can't dipshit.

>>16916422

>>16916425

>Assigning throttle to a single axis that doesn't lock

>Try to throttle up to half, keep fucking up because you have to keep your thumbstick in the exactly half position between center and the top edge

Yeah no thanks, I'll just press 50% throttle and take my finger off the key.

>>16916476

>Lock-on is QoL, not a "needed" feature

I'd say that heavily depends on the game, God Hand and DMC would be a nightmare without lock-on.

>>16916476

>needs to use 21 keys because he can't learn skills that 6-year olds can handle

>kek

Yeah you're just bullshitting at this point. You're not going to be able to hit 60% throttle using a fucking analog stick and your thumb, buddy. Sorry.

>The joke is that MechWarrior has a well-designed control scheme that doesn't require you to push thumbsticks around just to move, which you need to do all the time anyway

Sure pal, whatever.

>>16916489

>A modern PS controller Share/Screenshot button though AND a touchpad…

And it's unneeded shit.

>How about this then?

Get rid of the grip buttons, they're liable to accidental pressing. Ax the touch screen, extra button, and move start, select, and turbo to the center. Make the 6 face buttons smaller and in uniform rows.

too many buttons

I will tell you right now that the wii's biggest problem is lack of buttons. Maybe this is obvious but it really bugs me. The Wii controller was set up so that no matter what there would only ever be 4 easily reachable main buttons (start and select don't count also not counting the D pad).

When in Nunchuk mode, you can reach C, Z, A, and B, and when in Sideways/NES mode you can reach 1, 2, A and B.

This was a huge fuckup, as it goes against the standard amount of 6+ set decades before. What this meant was that emulating any game other than gameboy or nes is fucking awful, to the point that nintendo made it compulsory to use a classic controller when playing SNES or N64 on the Wii. Why the fuck did nintendo think it was okay to only have 4 easily reachable buttons? Even if you include Waggle that is still one button short.

>>16916476

>Also tell me how to have all the benefit of analog style movement independent from the camera, can maintain focus on an object, and have access to the face buttons at the same time. Protip you can't dipshit.

>The devs wanted all the benefits of analog input controllers gave to be able to freely move/do stuff while being able to constantly track an object

>moving goalposts

I articulated the reasoning further. Why the fuck else would you want to remove the need for an input to free up a hand to put in other inputs? Are you some kind of mutant with three thumbs?

>As I said, Lock-on is QoL, not a "needed" feature. A knowledgeable anon like you should already be aware of that.

It's needed because games like Ninja Gaiden require analog input to navigate a 3D space filled with enemies that want to push my shit in and not being able to track an enemy that might blindside me later because I had to jump or god forbid I press the X or Y button to attack. It frees up my thumb so I can focus on pressing the face buttons and ignore the analog stick for camera controls. The alternative is constantly resetting the camera quickly which was the system the original had and made bosses like Alma far more frustrating than it ever needed to be. It allows games of this type to make encounters fast paced and more difficult because the devs don't have to account for the time lag switching from looking and doing.

>You seem upset. I'm sorry that you can't appreciate having more options that can be used whoever you like.

I'm not against more inputs. I'm against thoughtless additions like face buttons all over the place or a goddamned touchscreen. I agreed with things like the peddles that became popular in high end controllers because that doesn't detract from already existing functionality by putting the fingers that aren't normally doing anything to work. Adding face buttons next to the analog stick that is typically mapped to movement will create games that will force me to decide between being able to move and pressing a button, or games that just ignore them because they don't want to frustrate people. I remember this being the exact reason the Black and White buttons are the bumpers now because its more usable and devs assigned more meaningful actions to them because of it.

>>16916406

<Being too blind to read the numpad

>Having to move your hand all the way to the other side of the keyboard just to choose between 10 different increments of speed instead of, again, instantly just choosing the exact right speed you want with your thumb

>Having to move you hand from the basic movement keys and other vital actions for any reason

<Not using the mouse to turn

>Fusing steering and camera together

If I'm in a vehicle how do strafe and shoot if the mouse turns the vehicle and the camera? Or do you control the camera with the keyboard like it's 1992?

>>16916745

>>Having to move your hand all the way to the other side of the keyboard just to choose between 10 different increments of speed instead of, again, instantly just choosing the exact right speed you want with your thumb

<Not just moving your hand off the mouse because it's right next to the numpad

I think you vastly overestimate how much time and effort moving your hand takes. That is how I play MechWarrior. You can also just press W and S to move the throttle bar if you want until it locks – the acceleration of your 'Mech is always slower than how fast the throttle pip moves so it's a non-issue. Unlike a controller there is no grip that I am settled in for the entire time. I don't use home rows when I type either, yet I somehow still reach 60 WPM.

Also, I maintain that the "I can choose exactly the right speed with a thumbstick" line of reasoning is utter bullshit. If your throttle locks (stays in the same position after you set it, which means that moving thumbstick forward "accelerates" and continues at the same velocity after it centers), then you have to make sure you never accidentally move your thumb up and down while trying to turn, assuming you are also using that stick for turning and you want to maintain the exact same speed. If not, then you have to maintain your thumb in an awkward position for a long period of time to maintain said speed, if you don't want to move around at full speed or not move at all. I have never seen a console game that has locking throttle, by the way. There is a reason MechAssault were vastly simplified games compared to the PC games. In reality, most racing games on consoles use triggers which are another axis on modern controllers, which works well enough for most games but is still imprecise. However, triggers are usually not available for use in a game which also requires shooting. You are also completely ignoring the existence of mice with more than three or four buttons and the scrollwheel which is used for throttle by some players but not my personal choice because it's too fiddly.

>If I'm in a vehicle how do strafe and shoot if the mouse turns the vehicle and the camera? Or do you control the camera with the keyboard like it's 1992?

I was talking about throttle controls specifically since you had mentioned racing games, so I was thinking about driving a car when I wrote that. The MechWarrior diagram was just a good example of the throttle controls so it was the first one I thought of and now that's apparently the direction this discussion has gone. It's a non-issue in MechWarrior because you aren't trying to maintain traction on a road, so you don't need to turn that precisely, especially when you can just torso twist for fine aiming adjustment.

Really, I'm amazed you haven't even brought up the best example of vehicle controls on a console, which is probably the Warthog from Halo. Precise turning and throttle all in one stick and it feels natural and intuitive. Best driving experience I've had on console to date and it honestly impressed me. But again that game does not require you to stay on a track to avoid losing a race, so the simpler controls suit it.

>>16917183

Yeah, Microsoft shat on peripheral support completely, which is hilarious because I can use my DualShock 4 on Linux and through Bluetooth with no additional drivers. The LED even lights up.

>>16917183

Does that keyboard come without those gay ass lights? and in DVORAK

>>16917293

>lights

You can turn them off

>layout

It just uses standard MX keycaps, in addition to having a keyswitch hot-swap gimmick.

Honestly a shame the Optimus keycap screen meme didn't take off, aside from its new functionality, it would solve both of those things, too.

>>16917183

>$150 because they're crowdfunded boutique gaymur gear

Mechanical keyboards have gotten a lot cheaper over the years but let's not pretend 150 for a keyboard is some kind of aberration. I'm glad after being shit on for the first one Wooting is at least still innovating.

Personally I thought the best controllers were the PS2 and PS3 controllers, everything is in the right place and there weren't any gimmicks to them

>>16917486

>original xbox controller because it had extra buttons

They don't because the black and white buttons were moved to the bumpers in the 360. The reason was to lesson the workload put onto the thumbs while putting idling fingers to use.

>OG Xbox

2x Analog sticks

2x Clickable buttons in the sticks

6x Face buttons

1x 8 way Dpad

2x Triggers

1x Start

1x Select

Total Inputs: 22

>360

2x Analog sticks

2x Clickable buttons in the sticks

4x Face buttons

1x 8 way Dpad

2x Triggers

2x Bumpers

1x Start

1x Select

Total Inputs: 22

>>16917490

>there weren't any gimmicks to them

Sixaxis was definitely a gimmick, and all my PS3 controllers' analog sticks seemed to wear out much faster than my PS1 and PS2 controllers, but yeah besides that they were fairly solid. Pressure-sensitive buttons too, I wish that had caught on more.

>>16917466

Were mechanical keyboards always so expensive, or is it just economies of scale? I remember back in the '90s when they were standard (still rocking my ADB Extended II w/ USB adapter) even on midrange machines.

>>16917841

It's more that they became a niche product, and the less mass produced something is, the more expensive it becomes to produce.

>>16917841

>Were mechanical keyboards always so expensive, or is it just economies of scale?

Most likely. The cheap and shitty membrane keyboards became popular because they're cheap making mechs a niche product until they became vogue again when people rediscovered typing on them was better jewtubers also helped push them. Now that they're popular again people have begun to invest in ways to get cheaper manufacturing or design form factors that cost less like the tenkeyless boards.

People itt seem to want more inputs but putting a bunch of buttons everywhere tends to make things worse. I feel like the easy and obvious solution could be adopting what the keyboards do by adding buttons that act as modifiers. You could easily quadruple the number of inputs on a controller with only 2 new inputs. The back peddles the premium controllers keep adding would be perfect for these. also put the start and select buttons where the OG xbox used to put them. This is the only thing that still annoys me to this day that they don't bring back

>>16917486

I started off like that (racing), but I've built my whole setup now with a TV as my main display. A lot of PC games have turned out well with a controller, but I still use (wireless) mouse+kb occassionally. Some of Corsair and Logitech gaming centric wireless stuff is still good for online use.

>>16917985

Just to add, I'm about 8 feet away and doing 4k/60 fps as much as possible. It isn't bad at all.

Felt like mentioning this since some would think I'm gimping myself.. but the refresh and resolution isn't bad at this distance.

PCs are true console killers in every sense of the word now.. and deliver everything consoles promise (but never do).

>>16917987

Are you playing on an OLED tv? I've heard they're pretty good for gaming for visuals usual OLED problems aside.

>>16917994

Unfortunately not. It's just a Samsung LED that's a few years old. LG just announced late last year some OLEDs that also have G-Sync. I'm gonna have to get one, I think.

>>16917994

Aside from the lifespan problem which could be completely fixed with wear leveling firmware, the main problem with OLEDs is that they're TVs, like all digital TVs are the nanosecond-latency OLED panel is saddled with a laggy controller chipset. The fastest I'm aware of is 6.6ms for the newest LG OLED TVs >>16918001 mentioned, which is middling at best compared to bottom-end gaymer PC LCD monitors from over a decade ago.

>>16917833

It shouldn't have been a gimmick – much like every other motion controller – but it seemed to have such awful input detection that no developer wanted to use it. Although, it seems that developers are reluctant to use even good motion controls to make their games feel better.

>Pressure-sensitive buttons too

Those were in PS2 controllers as well, although the only games I know of that made use of them was MGS2 and 3. Hurr durr, new thing complicated, what is tutorials? Just ignore new thing, make game same as always.

>>16918106

>the only games I know of that made use of them was MGS2 and 3

And most racing games though you really ought to use wheels/pedals for that anyway.

>>16917647

>The reason was to lesson the workload put onto the thumbs

lmao, you never played with an Xbox Controller S if you think they realistically put any extra workload on the thumbs. The natural thumb placement had you move mm at most for the extra buttons.

And the poster you are replying to is just implying they should be added as extra option on the already GOAT Xbox One/360 form factor.

I fucking hate how 360 controllers have become the default for PC gaming pads, I far more prefer the SNES/PS design.

The 360 controller looks it was designed for people who grip the entire controller with their entire palm.

>>16920534

>sony steals snes design

>oh no, we need analog

<nintendo just dumps a stick somewhere random

>two can play that game!

>dump two sticks somewhere random

Wow, yeah, great idea.

>>16920534

>The 360 controller looks it was designed for people who grip the entire controller with their entire palm

That's because it is, gripping it with your palm allows your fingers to be free to press buttons instead of holding the controller. How is that possibly a bad thing?

>>16920584

idk why everyone is putting the two extra face buttons on the bottom below A/B and not with the saturn design.

the sega saturn is the closest thing we will get to a pocket sized fightstick and thats truely a shame.

optimal controller for me would be

2x symmetrical analog sticks (top or bottom i dont care. I just want games using only dpad and face buttons to not be stilted)

dpad thats not ass (think NES or psvita for a good dpad)

L3 and R3

2x triggers

2x bumpers

6 face buttons in the A/B/C X/Y/Z format

start/select

optional home button

I dont think im asking for much here.

>>16920675

my hands are over the face buttons you fucking mongoloid. the only games that dont require face buttons to be constantly used are shooter titles which are much better when designed and played with a kb/m anyway. play any platformer or fighting game and youll realize just how much of a mistake removing the face buttons really is. if i want to throw a crouching jab into a fierce lightning kick i need those buttons already under my fingers

>>16920687

try playing dark souls with paddles and tell me how intuitive and fun it is.

im not sure which games you even play if they dont use more than eight buttons. modern games require face buttons.

>>16920694

Soulsbournes on console are built around camera control with the second joystick just like most console shooters, so your right thumb is sitting on that stick most of the time to begin with, not over the face buttons.

>>16919196

>lmao, you never played with an Xbox Controller S

>implying

The placement was better but if you think it's better than the more usable bumpers then you're a retard. The only thing the black and white buttons ever were or will be is a glorified menu button the S controller didn't change that.

>And the poster you are replying to is just implying they should be added as extra option on the already GOAT Xbox One/360 form factor.

I was breaking the myth that the OG xbox had more inputs than the 360.

>>16920669

The only way 6 face buttons in the Saturn layout will work is if you remove the right stick entirely. No matter how you arrange it the last 2 buttons will be too far for anything meaningful to be mapped there for most games because the default use for the right stick is to look around in 3D games, which are the vast majority of games.

>>16920694

>Modern games require face buttons.

Some do and Dark Souls shows how intelligent button mapping can overcome the limitations of controllers. Mapping the weapon actions to the bumpers and triggers allowed you to move, attack/block, and control the camera at the same time. If you added paddles and the ability to use your ring/pinky fingers you can even do 5 things at the same time with only 2 new inputs. Imagine doing all the above while being able to dodge and use an item.

Last time I used one of the larger modern controllers (and it's been a while) I felt like most of the holding was being done by my palms. Anyone ever think of fingertip buttons on the back side of the controller for the useless fingers like the pinky? Maybe stick a throttle lever down there or something if that constrains hand placement too much. I don't know. I can't wait until input systems like the ones they use for surgical robots get cheap, if they ever do. You could throw one of those on the back to give the pinky something to shove around, although I imagine since it's a weak finger it would get pretty tired after a while. You wouldn't need micrometer precision, either.

>>16920827

I really liked the Steam Controller too, but it had the fatal floor of not having a fucking d-pad. The left touchpad is a very poor substitute. If the left touchpad had been a proper d-pad (fuck the symmetry) it would have been damn near perfect.

If they do make another controller I hope it has a d-pad, or swappable components. And chord functions like "take a screenshot with HOME and Y" and shit.

>>16920856

>your right thumb is sitting on that stick most of the time to begin with

Not when you're locked on to an enemy and suddenly the right joystick doesn't do shit and the face buttons to dodge, heal and two hand become mandatory. Doesn't matter that right joystick gets used most of the time when it doesn't see any use in the *most crucial times*.

>>16915588

>asymmetrical analog sticks

literally kill yourself, you stupid sack of nigger shit