d9baaf No.15920605
How would you fix the Steam controller while still keeping the original concept of fusing the best features of both Keyboard+Mouse and gamepad?
5ef57e No.15920613
give it a d-pad, reposition the face buttons to be in the place of the right touch pad, remove the touch pads, give it a track ball and encourage devs to use gyroscope aiming.
07ec3c No.15920614
Wouldn't a trackball be better than a trackpad?
e1f7ec No.15920657
>>15920605
Or just put a plank of wood on your lap.
861a46 No.15920681
>>15920605
Trackball, no glossy plastic, proper D-Pad, USB-C. Tbh, just use a fucking mouse and keyboard.
1a7d0e No.15920689
its simple we use vr controls
oh wait motion controls failed decade ago
ab7aab No.15920698
>>15920689
You clearly have never used VR controls, moron.
ab7aab No.15920748
>>15920613
>how to improve unique promising controller
>turn it into generic shitty controller with gimmicks
0a2eee No.15920758
>How would you fix the Steam controller
The 2 main large circles there, make them out of TPE thermoplastic elastomer, the type they make sexdoll parts out of. Make them pink areaola colored and yes, feel. The thumbstick should be replaced with the same type but more nipply, prominently enough nipple like control made from pink TPE. The smaller buttons, smaller but much firmer nipple shaped, like pencil erasers or small jellybean nubs. Maybe some sort of silicone mixture.
22d767 No.15920766
>>15920613
So basically make it the Switch pro controller?
1a7d0e No.15920768
>>15920698
never heard anyone praising them, who the fuck are you protecting? your bias?
ab7aab No.15920791
>>15920768
>hurr durr if everyone talks out of their ass it means its true
1a7d0e No.15920794
>>15920791
well done you have proved how good the motion controls are
everyone is going to use them now
ab7aab No.15920811
>>15920794
You were saying something about bias, no?
4184fb No.15920860
>>15920605
There really isn't a way to do that, though.
Benefits of KBM: more buttons than you could conceivably use for any one game, precise mouse aiming
Benefits of controller: using a stick works well for movement in random directions since you can hold it to keep moving (unlike mouse) and can move in any direction within the precision of the stick (unlike keyboard) and buttons can be more densely packed and easier to reach.
A d-pad goes some of the way toward that if your game wants item selection or otherwise precise movement, but you really can't merge two so different things and come up with anything worth using.
9215e2 No.15920888
>>15920758
>not opting for a series of strings arranged in a web-like pattern, making them pressure sensitive so they canbe double or single bound.
Of course it would not be as durable but you would learn to control and channel your anger more efficiently.
0a2eee No.15920982
>>15920888
Hard to argue with those triple genocidal digits.
Heil Dogar Heil Kazon
c84689 No.15921119
I'd just start selling Steam-brand TV Trays.
9487b6 No.15921255
>>15920657
I would want something like this but ad a scroll wheel on the side of the mouse where my finger rests. And of course you would need support so the mouse is recognized as a mouse while the controller analog works like an analog.
cb128c No.15921267
>>15920860
A mouse with a stick a bit above the thumb? Having a stick near the thumb might be a source of annoyance though, so maybe a mix of touch pad + stick?
66c06a No.15921380
Steam controller worth the heavily discounted price? I bought their Steam link, and found it was pretty great.
66728d No.15921397
>while still keeping the original concept of fusing the best features of both Keyboard+Mouse and gamepad?
it never did that or even came close to it you dumb nigger, and its impossible because those are fundamentally different methods of control
0f1179 No.15921568
It's not promising, controllers are general purpose. For now this steam controller is inferior to everything.
4bb058 No.15921620
>>15920613
came into this thread to make almost exactly this post, except for the gyroscope aiming motion control faggotry
I think it would be fine to keep one trackpad; I think you could make a trackpad that also works intuitively as a D-pad and trackpads have unique benefits (go play with the steam controller config software for 10 minutes and tell me you don't come away impressed) but it would require a lot of iteration to get the design right.
but yeah, trackball is a must, you have to have an absolute input device and there's just nothing that's going to work better than a trackball
gyroscope aiming is a shitty splatoon meme
96ec2e No.15921690
>>15920605
>How would you fix this bad idea while still keeping the bad ideas intact?
6c77b4 No.15921699
Make the left touchpad modular and have a dpad that can be inserted.
That's literally it.
That's why the PS4 controller is essentially a Better steam controller
ac9d92 No.15922127
>>15920657
why does the controller need a touchpad when you have a fucking mouse right there?
6c77b4 No.15922133
>>15922127
It's a PS4 controller
e99da8 No.15922164
>>15920657
Is there anything like this available but only containing the left controller without the touchpad?
8db802 No.15923677
>>15920605
Never use it because it's fucking stupid as shit. KB+M is the only thing you need
5ef57e No.15923693
>>15921620
>except for the gyroscope aiming motion control faggotry
Because you haven't used it yet. It literally improves all pointer style aiming to be what I'd estimate 90-95% as accurate as a mouse pointer.
a98aa1 No.15923722
>>15920605
by sodomizing gape newell with it
a0f732 No.15923786
>>15920605
gamecube keyboard controller
21f69e No.15923804
Best feature of keyboards: tons of buttons and modifiers readily accessible by one or both hands. Best feature(s) of mice: accurate and precise 1:1 interaction, also possible to have lots of buttons on gayming models.
You can't have either of those to any meaningful extent on a controller.
5a8811 No.15923848
>>15922164
Technically yeah
22651e No.15923855
>>15920605
Make the giant ass touch pad things interchangeable with different parts, the whole base idea was for controls to be customizable, why stop at making the hardware it self customizable? You can have your choice of mouse analog to insert or just a a control stick, don't need a dpad? Slap something else more useful in.
8cfa79 No.15925065
>>15920657
>can only use two buttons with the left hand
ok, let's assume one is jump and one is duck how do you
>switch to different weapon slots
>run if the game allows you too
>interact if the game allows you to
>toss nades if there's a dedicated key
>fucking RELOAD
that design is flawed, and don't tell me that you can just use the extra buttons on the mouse, that's just uncomfortable and counterintuitive
b374ee No.15925185
>>15920605
I got it for Dolphin
no bully
3478eb No.15926124
It should be phallus shaped and you win the game by milking your prostate.
07e63b No.15926353
>>15925065
>can only use two buttons with the left hand
It has five shoulder buttons, which is a few too many imh. You could also remap the D-pad, share button, or use the touchpad as a button, the others look to far away to be useful though
>don't tell me that you can just use the extra buttons on the mouse, that's just uncomfortable and counterintuitive
I've always preferred having some things mapped to mouse buttons.
Personally I don't think I would want to use it but it's not unusable.
12ac49 No.15926391
what I would do is make the current "d-pad" a trackpad with separate directional buttons in it, replace the right trackpad with a trackball, make the paddle buttons less shit and give the triggers a longer travel
also make it customizable like the original prototypes
ba73a9 No.15928653
Haven't used one myself, but everything I've seen indicates the controller itself is excellent, with its main problem being the horrendous way its configuration UI is tied into Steam. In that light, someone theoretically making a decent UI to configure the thing would be the way to "fix" it. Another major factor hurting not just the Steam controller, but any nonstandard input device, is Microsoft pushing XInput as a "replacement" for DirectInput on PC. Both XInput's core design, and its typical implementation even in Microsoft-published PC games, mean that fully exploiting input devices that exceed the capabilities of an XBox gamepad in any way is somewhere between difficult and absolutely impossible. In contrast, DirectInput was designed with no assumptions about controller design in mind, and 3rd-party dev implementation of DirectInput in PC games varied from merely unambitious to downright excellent, almost never being straight up CRIPPLED like XInput.
>>15920613
>>15920681
>>15921699
>>15923855
>actually thinking d-pads are excusable, let alone desirable
>in a premium controller
>CY+4
D-stick has always been the only acceptable answer, only room for debate is clicky vs. non-clicky. You could even replace the analog stick with it if you used analog-sensitive switches.
e3e0f1 No.15928686
>>15928653
the neo geo pad had one of the best "d-pad", SNK's autism is well respected.
402b42 No.15929365
>>15928653
>the controller itself is excellent
It's not. The controller feels like it's made out of 5 cent plastic in a 3rd grade factory in the prostitute district of Shenzhen.
t. Person who had the displeasure of using one
6c77b4 No.15929373
>>15928653
Look I'm not saying I wouldn't want a neogeo pad
All I'm saying is
THE SEGA GENESIS DPAD WOULD FIT IN PERFECTLY, AND BE FUCKING GREAT
01c748 No.15929375
I'd give it a couple more buttons, or maybe a dedicated modifier button also longer pulls on the triggers. The config UI could also have a better explanation for new users.
>>15921380
If you put in the time to learn how the config tool works, I'd say it's worth it. I got one last year after my old controller died and haven't had any major issues with it. Though if you dont plan on using custom controller setups, there's nothing the steam controller really does better than other gamepads.
>>15921699
>Make the left touchpad modular and have a dpad that can be inserted.
This would be nice too.
5ef57e No.15929378
>>15928653
steam controller isn't premium it's generic chink shit.
8d8680 No.15929379
Is there such a thing as a good controller? Logitech's shittty f310 is the best I've found so far, but it has miserable convex sticks, HUGE deadzones, and the buttons while providing nice tactile feedback, require a bit too much force.
5ef57e No.15929385
>>15929379
most successful consoles had good controllers. Even ones with major points of failure are still good in other ways.
8d8680 No.15929395
>>15929385
I liked the PS1 controller and the duke, but I hated all the others, they all felt like they would shatter into a million pieces if I didn't grip them softly enough.
402b42 No.15929403
>>15929379
The Switch controller is surprisingly good and has native PC support but is expensive as fuck. I've also heard good things about the Wii U controller but I don't know how good the PC support on that one is and I haven't tested it myself.
bbbe41 No.15929412
>>15920605
The idea is too fundamentally flawed from the start to really work in the first place, and I doubt anybody on /v/ has a better grasp of functional design than the actual engineers who made that thing.
f1dc56 No.15929435
>>15929412
>modern day Valve
>having a grasp of literally anything that requires effort
absolute mad lad
a5bada No.15929558
There are literally countless ways to improve those unwieldy things you call "controllers".
Console cucks are such backwards mouth breathers that it took the efforts of Nintendo to slap them in their face to add in something like dual analog. And Nintendo makes fucking children's games. This is how creatively bankrupt console cucks are.
The only reason PC users even care about controllers is because of the horribly ported games that are unplayable without them. (e.g. darksouls)
Otherwise PC players don't even give a shit about controllers because the functionality of a mouse is just that good.
Improving controllers is easy. I did it in MS paint in five minutes
Copyright anon 2018
54ea0a No.15929564
a5bada No.15929573
>>15929564
My names Anon, not Nolan.
Take your avatar fagging back to Twitter cock-muncher
96fd9c No.15929646
>>15929573
Strike a nerve?
3076dd No.15929676
>>15929379
Nvidia almost made a perfect controller.
>d-pad and face buttons are the best I've come across since the 6th gen
>sticks have no obvious deadzone or accuracy issues
>symmetrical sticks :^)
>generally great ergonomics, the polygonal grips look silly but feel better than most console controllers
<official drivers require an Nvidia GPU, because you suck and we hate you
<also requires access to a Shield TV to install the firmware update that adds support for said Windows drivers, because you suck and we hate you
<$75 MSRP
<DS4-tier failure rate
409a17 No.15929718
Sorry anon, they already made the perfect controller
with 100 hour battery life based on ancient magicks
664984 No.15929725
>>15929718
>both thumbsticks on top
I get that the Wii U doesn't have much of a selection but have some standards. God damn.
409a17 No.15929735
>>15929725
Maybe it's my claw hands, but I still find it pretty comfy.
8752d3 No.15930331
>>15928653
>Haven't used one myself, but everything I've seen indicates the controller itself is excellent, with its main problem being the horrendous way its configuration UI is tied into Steam.
I don't see what is wrong with the config UI.
18cf39 No.15930370
>>15929718
I was sceptical until I held one. Honestly the most comfortable controller I have ever owned. I bought a bluetooth adapter just so I could hook it up to my PC. I use it for everything and it's battery life is incredible. The only flaw is that the triggers are digital instead of analogue.
I will never forgive nintendo for not making this compatible with the switch. Especially when the gamecube cotrnoller works with a bunch of switch games.
8866ab No.15930522
>>15929558
That trigger better be analogue otherwise your drawing a shit.
7f368f No.15934057
>>15929718
I have one of those and they're pretty good
Until I started using the switch pro controller which is light years better
5084f0 No.15934064
>>15920605
Done. Plus add 2 buttons to the right buttons, so it looks like a Mega-Drive/Saturn Controller. Also, not make the d-pad pure shit.
915cd1 No.15934086
>>15920657
how the fuck can you hold that shit with only your left hand let alone use it?
6c77b4 No.15934360
>>15929718
As far as things that I would put in the category of "just a controller for things that need a controller" that's literally the best I've used. My only complaint is Aren't they like $100 now if you want one that isn't knock off trash that dies in 45 minutes?
6c77b4 No.15934363
Also
If you ever actually manage to COMPLETELY RUN DOWN the Wii U Pro's battery IIRC it's just a 3DS battery and even aftermarket ones work and you still get ridiculous battery life
6c77b4 No.15934379
>>15934374
isn't the Wii Pro controller like, tiny?
e1f7ec No.15934387
>>15934086
By using this awkward hand support.
a0088b No.15934401
>>15920657
Lol here you go bro, sorry it's the only other controller i have.
a0088b No.15934407
maby if they didn't try to coppy the retarded xshit and made it semetrical.
850bbb No.15934952
>>15920605
>the best features of Keyboard+Mouse (the touch pad)
5ef57e No.15934958
>>15934379
No, it's pretty big. If anything the right way to describe it would be spaced out.
197594 No.15934965
>>15926353
>It has five shoulder buttons, which is a few too many imh
You can never have enough buttons. :^)
a2ea9f No.15935003
>>15929558
Do you have the autisms?
e3e0f1 No.15935048
>>15934379
>>15934958
lmao it's big if you have absolute manlet hands
5ef57e No.15935052
>>15935048
What's the matter anon? Do my cute feminine hands turn you on?
aa763e No.15936910
>>15929573
Someone get this hothead outta here.
4d8e72 No.15937289
give it the ability to swap in a track ball as modular option. a problem with these touchpads, even though they have haptic feedback, is that it doesn't give you substantial physical feedback. sure it gives you some, but it's just not enough. trackpads suck for controlling games not designed for them, almost as much as touchscreen controls on a phone emulator. i owned and tried to use a steam controller for about half a year and i never got used to it.
5faaad No.15937650
That controller is an attempt to bring PC gaming to the couch without kb+m, and that's the wrong approach because most PC games are designed for kb+m. So the easy fix: just get a laptop stand and put the kb+m there. Simple, cheap, no compromise.
5ef57e No.15937668
>>15937650
>alright, game time
>time to break out the razer approved gamer top couch cobra by Razer
>alright just slide it out, pop the legs in and ease into that couch
>shit I can't lean back I need to lean forward
>ouch my neck
>shit it's too short my legs are bumping into it
>shit the cables aren't long enough to reach behind my PC that's 20 feet away
5faaad No.15937701
>>15937668
>shit the cables aren't long enough to reach behind my PC that's 20 feet away
Use wireless devices, or USB extensions. And the metric system, gringo.
5ef57e No.15937706
>>15937701
>Use wireless devices
Try to avoid this
>or USB extensions
Don't go too long
ddf0a3 No.15938427
>>15920657
Well, for starters the thing is too damn large. It would make it indesputably superior setup to the keyboard by:
1) getting rid the elongated part of the controller on the side
2) having the buttons on the side of the controller/on the bottem with very slight grooves in them for your fingers so you can rest them without hitting the buttons
3) software so you can easily change exactly what does what on the controller (let's say they have columns such as A, B, C, with numbers in the row section) so you can destinguish what exactly you did
4) Make the fucker light as possible and as small as possible (there is usually a lot of extra space not taken up by almost every controller out there) like the Wii nunchuk
5) make the controller have 4 buttons on the end instead of two (replacing the bumper and the trigger)
6) have at least 8-12 small buttons on the side and bottom
7) have a macro mouse (with the same column/row setup as described above) and with software you can easily change what does what (with 10-12 buttons)
With the superior 360 degree motion for the analog stick, I could easily see this setup whipping the floor with people playing with a traditional keyboard+mouse. I can guarantee this would outperform both the traditional controller and the kb+m users. It may even cause an uproar like how people tried to push for the tablet pen to get banned.
ddf0a3 No.15938428
>>15938427
tablet pen* to get banned on osu!
82676b No.15938462
I think it's a pretty excellent idea overall, however my primary gripe is the lack of a good d-pad. If they somehow figured out a way to put a good d-pad on the left pad (potentially an optional attachment with better tactility with actual switches near the middle?) and give it better and more normal shaped bumpers and triggers it could be great instead of meh/decent.
646dc1 No.15938468
I'm curious, why not just separately use a M&KB for certain games and gamepad for certain games? I've never really felt the best of both were needed in one controller.
4bb058 No.15938477
>>15923693
I have used it, I put tens of hours into splatoon on the wii U, I've got a couple hundred into splatoon 2, and I've beaten breath of the wild front to back
gyroscope aiming is a fucking meme
82676b No.15938478
>>15938468
The idea is that some games are just really badly suited for either controllers or keyboards, but you can still play both competently with one input device. Something like a turn based RPG for example, would be hell with the slow and imprecise movements of a controller, but trackpads can make it work totally fine.
ba73a9 No.15938479
>>15937650
>>15938468
The point with stuff like the Steam Controller isn't necessarily to make something that can go head-to-head against KB+M players and perform on par, but to make something that can at least control FPS/RTS/etc well enough to be enjoyable from your couch in one or two pieces of plastic you just pick up and play with. Just having any kind of relative instantaneous velocity input device at all (mouse, trackball, touchpad, IR, gyro, etc.) with the right mapping and calibration would be entirely adequate.
>>15938427
What you described sounds more like >>15923873 (though that still looks a bit too fat) insofar as basically being a Wii nunchuck. But really, if you're going to use the device with a mouse in the other hand, you're already sitting at a desk, so there's little benefit to something you have to hold.
If you need something sitting on the desk as a superior "companion device" for a mouse, how about something more like the throttle in a HOTAS joystick setup? One device I've always found intriguing (though I haven't used one) was Microsoft's old Strategic Commander, which in addition to its buttons, can be slightly slid or rotated atop its base to provide 3 additional analog axis of joystick-like movement.
ef5468 No.15938539
>>15938468
This is pretty much how I feel too.
>>15938479
>but to make something that can at least control FPS/RTS/etc well enough to be enjoyable from your couch
Fair enough.
To be honest, I hate sitting on a couch so when I play something with a controller I just lie down and prop the monitor up with a bunch of big books.
The comfiness is immeasurable.
bf0e96 No.15938610
>>15928653
>Neo Geo stick
My nigga. Steam controller is a piece of absolute fucking shit though.
5ef57e No.15938622
>>15938477
>gyroscope aiming is a fucking meme
so is keyboard and mouse, but that's not an argument. Do you even know what a meme is?
ebc77c No.15941446
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>15937706
>wired is slightly faster than wireless myth
Here's a thorough test debunking that age old myth.
6c77b4 No.15941515
>>15941446
Well technically, if he's referring to ancient wireless tech, or a highly congested area, he'd be right to suggest away from wireless tech
ebc77c No.15941551
>>15941515
So you're argument is that he's stuck way back in 2005 or of having a bunch of garbage between your mouse and your pc like some slob? Fun fact: the gaming controller no only debunked the myth, it also outperformed the wired controller. Also fun fact: Logitech went out of their way to say that (as far as latency testing goes) wireless is even faster than that of wired mouses off today. So it's not just gaming controllers that have less latency.
36ca2d No.15941553
Is there a way to use the steam controller without the steam API?
6c77b4 No.15941558
>>15941551
Well no I'm saying in a highly congested environment, a particularily connected suburb, an apartment building, some dipshit with too many bluetooth devices could create destructive interference, and make performance worse, it's not "having a bunch of garbage between your mouse and pc".
ebc77c No.15941580
>>15941558
>Living near a bunch of niggers in some ghetto
>Not living in a small town or in the country
4ca5a0 No.15941583
go out, buy a console controller and pull it out once every few months when you feel like driving in GTA or playing a flight sim.
e1f7ec No.15941977
>>15938427
I used a PS Move Nav controller to play some games and talk about it this thread. >>>/vg/51442 I think that it works great for certain games but not so well in other games for different reasons. I recommend this setup for Hotline Miami if nothing else. It is a setup that I hope devs might consider in the future but the driver support for the PS Move is awful and Sony isn't making the Nav controller.
c8397a No.15942331
>>15920605
It is my opinion that the best features of the keyboard+mouse are a large number of fingertip-accessible buttons (as the keyboard enables) and fingertip-controlled movement (as the mouse enables), while the best features of the gamepad are the ability to hold the thing and the fact that you can control movement with your two thumbs.
It is my opinion that the best way to fuse these two things in a way that keeps both usable is a sort of pair of gloves, but with an orbweaver in the left glove and a similar device in the right (except that the right has a trackball/etc. replacing 9-15 of the buttons).
A redesign of the Steam controller - as a controller - would be simple: make the left "d-pad" significantly smaller (so that it might actually function as a D-pad sometimes!) and fix the bumpers so that they actually fucking last (this is readily achieved by making them function like an actual fucking button, instead of by having them deform a hard piece of plastic which presses the internal button…).
6f6869 No.15946789
>>15941553
Yeah. You can use different wrappers and emulators to make it appear as a generic xinput device.
>leddit
But it's a good source of information.
http://archive.vn/P95d4
https://www.reddit.com/r/SteamController/wiki/getting-started