/v/ - Video Games

Filled with things you can't do and places you can't go yet, becoming available as you progress due to new abilities/unlocks/key items or just difficulty walls.

>What makes a good Open world game?

Not being open world and just having a well designed world.

>>15777078

Variability and adaptability. This applies to gameplay, artificial intelligence, and world events such as weather for example.

>>15777124

>implying

That's the exact opposite of what you want to do. Everything should be based on player creativity and intelligence.

1. What >>15777124 said

2. Random events should happen, such as enemy patrols, wildlife passing by, civilians walking/fighting with each other, etc

3. Well-designed quests

4. No quest mark on the minimap. You should figure out where to go yourself.

5. Whatever you do should have a visible impact on the world around you

6. Excellent hand-crafted level design

A small hub like nier automata does the trick. I really don't think the idea of a big world with a lot of little things to do is conducive to good game design. I know a lot is implied with that statement but when you break it down how far apart everything is, how much you need to factor into just navigating that distance and keeping that navigation fun, mechanically consistent, on the surface alone making that fun is so daunting that most developers just eschew it to instant travel to anywhere you've been, thus defeating the idea of it being an open world by telling the player engagement with it is optional.

I think it's just a waste.

>>15777166

Are you trying to imply GTA isn't shit

>>15777170

he's right though

>>15777170

Being a contrarian for the sake of bring contrarian doesn't make you fit in.

Many would argue for variety, a mix of urban, rural and barren areas keeps the world somewhat fresh.

A big problem with open worlds is when you reach that moment of "been there, done that". MGSV handles this fairly well as a good portion of the game has its missions go somewhere new. Sure you can explore the entire map right from the outset but the game feels better if you play along as the story and missions unfold. That ends eventually and the side-ops especially have you running back and forth to places you've already seen and traveled through.

An open world game where you can't see everything in one playthrough could work. Something like the Ring Bearer's journey from Lord of the Rings, you have to hurry from A to B and can't deviate too much. This keeps the world fresh on repeat runs as you can start from a new location. But that goes against the modern gaming philosophy of letting the player experience everything in one run.

>>15777165

This is a good point. Open worlds try to be fun but also somewhat realistic with their spacing and content. This leads to the problem of there being chunks of down time as there are pockets of the map that have content and fun and the areas in between are devoid of that. But you can't also have those "empty" spaces have content either or the world feels even more artificial than it already does.

>>15777166

But it falls into exactly the same problems as most open world games. The only benefit is has is that the world is smaller, but still too big. However, rather than spacing out content, they just shoved content in a few spots on the map and the rest is needless padding.

Exploration that has meaning with hidden quest lines that effect the end game+good loot

Also the ability to fuck with the AI economy if there are any

Literally just combine warband with crusader kings

>>15777165

The structure of open-world games is currently is that the open-world is the testing ground, where you experiment with what you've unlocked in the previous mission. The issue with this model is that if the unlocks aren't meaningful, then it serves no purpose. This can be fixed by either spacing missions related to the significance of the unlock or abandon this model all-together and have the player select when they want to progress in a sub-menu.

I like it when they have a good amount of interactivity with the environment. Some examples off the top of my head:

>being able to climb up & throw stuff in Dragon's Dogma

>being able to destroy certain buildings/structures, run up buildings and use pretty much anything you come across as a weapon in Hulk: Ultimate Destruction

>having lots of buildings which you can go inside, lots of content densley packed together in a small space & having environment-specific attacks in Yakuza

Apart from these, I think Gravity Rush 1 and 2 deserve credit for having open worlds which feel like giant collectathon hubs. Because you can walk over/jump from any surface and pick up most objects they almost feel like really big playgrounds. I also like that neither of them have minimaps, each area feels so distinct from every other one and has enough recognisable landmarks that a minimap isn't needed.

>>15777206

What's fucked is minecraft with mods can fulfill your criteria

>>15777145

>You should figure out where to go yourself.

I fucking miss this aspect of gaming so fucking much! You aren't given a chance to explore and fully enjoy the game when the game holds your hands.

.>>15777263

Similar to what you said. But it depends on the game. To talk about MGSV again, I'd love another open world stealth game. I feel an open world stealth game where you have a hideout as part of the map would make it work better than MGSV's Mother Base and traveling between the two. This would also allow you to sneak around the world, gather intel and items before setting out on missions oppose to the more instanced mission structure of TPP where things reset or you have to have clairvoyance ahead of time to know what to sabotage beforehand. Also the fact you have to send your men out to disrupt supplies of gear for example takes away that freedom the player could have themselves.

>>15777174

>>15777173

>I eat shit

>what the fuck why do you eat shit

>HUURRR UR CONTRAIRIAN UR NOT GETTING MY REDDIT GOLD MEANIE

amazing

>>15777078

>so /v/ what makes a good open world or can they even work?

Risk for exploration vs high level loot reward. Nothing better than this. Two games that did this well were Morrowind and to a lesser degree the first Crackdown. FF12 did this to a degree as well same for SMT Nocturne in one specific part. Oddly enough, I liked all four games more than most and their sequels.

Open world also gives the environments a special feel to them when they differ greatly or one is packed full of hard enemies that looms in your conscious while you are in other areas– Demon's souls did this very well.

>>15777232

Anon is right

>>15777206

You could literally just install some adventure modpack that either increases the number of tools you can make and adds new biomes or a modpack which adds a new dimension.

No jews

>>15777408

Is this good?

>>15777801

It's pretty good, higher level difficulties can be pretty bullshit and you need a numberpad so if you have an 88 key keyboard you're majorly handicapped

>Needs to be challenging, the would should feel hostile to the player at the start of the game

>This in turn encourages a natural progression through the game world, preventing the player from going wherever they want from the start unless they really know what they're doing

>Everything the player character can do should follow in-game logic, no magic map that lets you teleport anywhere instantly at the press of a button

>Can be easily replaced by set fast travel points scattered throughout the world, involve some kind of compensation or something similar, again the player should also be forced to follow in-game logic

>Have actually interesting locations that compel the player to go investigate instead of question mark #168 that's just two bandits guarding a chest; quality over quantity

Modern open world games are so ridiculously easy and game-y they just can't grab my attention anymore, they're literally just a massive sandboxes entirely centered around the player character. This in turn just detaches me from the game world and I lose interest.

Some good examples that follow all the points listed above:

>Morrowind

>Gothic

>STALKER

And then at the complete ass end of the spectrum you have shit like:

>AC Origins

>TW3

>FO4

>>15777140

if he's referring to gothic, that is how it's done

you can go just about anywhere if you try hard enough, but by design you should be deterred by your lack of progress in the story

>>15777182

>>15777263

>no quest markers

I don't know, sometimes they feel necessary. There were times in Morrowind and other games where I felt like I'm wasting my time looking for one small piece of item or NPC in a huge world map. But what I learned from Skyrim is when you have quest markers on all the time, it gets boring. Damned if I do damned if I don't.

Majora's mask is the best "open world" game to date.

>>15779391

Quest markers are entirely rendered pointless by having a quest description the player can re-read in logs that will give them all the info they need to send them where they need to go. Then the story can directly handle the scope and challenge of finding something. And there is no need for quest markers shitting up the gaming experience. The only people who could be against something like this would be casual faggots who play RPGs without actually listening to the story. And vapid cunts like that would be much better off playing Call of Duty or something.

>>15780229

FURTHERMORE:

Quests could be used to turn an otherwise bland open world into a more linear experience, which is tailor-made to give a better contextually relevant experience to the user, within the confines of that single quest. Simply getting rid of quest markers could let the quest narrative direct the player along these points of interest, rather than them just turning on auto-run and going in a general straight line and ignoring everything around them. Skyrim could have been made this way, and it would have been much more interesting and immersive. But they elected not to, for the sake of appeasing ADHD casual faggots who can't do anything more complex than running in a straight line towards a quest marker.

A smaller world with more detail put into it, a variety of playstyles, and progression based on both player creativity and character skills.

Ex: Part of the map is very vertical with trees, cliffs, floating islands, etc. Normally you can't navigate above the first couple layers, only the second can be reached through clever movement. Then you unlock a grappling hook, now you can go higher but some still seem out of reach. You can either go find a jetpack or learn how to gain momentum with your grappling hook to fling yourself up without dying. But then at the highest point you see a distant peak you could reach with a glider or jetpack, but not a grappling hook.

Also probably gameplay focused on being an open world. There is no overarching story, no urgent push to go in any direction, and your character is a nameless nobody. Don't focus on combat too much, leave it to exploration focus since thats the whole fucking point of an open world. Course it can be an option too, but don't make it the default approach. Instead offer players the chance to make progress through collecting things, finding places, dealing with NPCs, or just by making things themselves.

>>15780309

You practically just described Minecraft and many other sandbox games. And they are fine for what they are, sandboxes of varying complexity to play around in.

If the world is big, some sort of mount or vehicle to use to speed the journey up (and possibly access new areas)

>>15777124

What about a few places you can't get to but you can see?

Like the tall rock structures and floating rocks in Xenoblade Chronicles X that need the flight module to access.

Even BoTW has obstacles you can't climb unless you have enough stamina/stamina enhancing food that a player wouldn't have at the start of the game.

>>15782015

> BoTW

Had a world that was lush and vibrant, but was so lifeless at the same time.

>>15777078

Something like Deus Ex. Multiple maps that are non-linear while having choices that affect the events in later levels.

>>15777078

good story

>>15790260

Good luck finding that anywhere these days.

>>15777124

Dark souls

Zelda

I thought fallouts 4s level scaling was cool if bethesda wasnt so lazy and it had no bugs and proper balancing and quests that game wouldve been a 10/10 the first 20 or so levels were great

I thought Breath of the Wild was a standout open world game. The world itself was so engaging. Something like climbing a mountain, or sailing to an island felt like a real event, rather than just moving your marker to the next mission.

>>15777132

Only total autists prefer closed worlds over open worlds

>>15790533

Only brainlets think you have to pick one.

>>15790540

it's closed worlders who play nothing but their kind of games.

>>15777844

>if you have an 88 key keyboard you're majorly handicapped

if you bought anything other than a 104 key Model M you're brain is already majorly handicapped

Reason to explore. That's literally it. If everything is the same no matter where you go, or there is only the main/side quests to do, or there are large areas with nothing in them you have to pass through to get somewhere, don't even bother with making it open world. BOTW was complete shit because there was nothing to find.

>>15789710

That's sandbox, or playground design.

>>15777801

No but it's fun.

>>15790533

I like both

Best is middle ground games like dark souls and zelda

>>15790750

This sounds like something I'd play to no tomorrow.

>>15777078

Open world is a marketing meme.

>>15777078

That's a cool image

Open world allows for lazier level/world design, it can fuck off.

>>15777165

That's the price of immersion/realism.

You can't expect content every 5 meters. Look at Skyrim - you have ancient, undiscovered ruins that are clearly visible from the wals of a big city, and it feels stupid.

Too many happenings/enemies between you and desitnation X jsut feels like a grind and irritant.

You can't go around world feelign a bit empty, since it mostly is empty space. You can enjoy nature and the enviroment while you travel.

Japan

>>15777302

you have to go back

>>15777145

Given the amount of content in an open world game, you're never going to get that. You're just going to have copypastaed terrain with randomly generated quests.