d7ba8e No.15545933
Why couldn't 90's gamers do the math? Why did such a good console have to die without any love?
9c63f0 No.15545942
Anybody else find it ironic that the mewlings of excess of the 90s could apply way more to modern game development with massively bloated programs eating up hundreds of gigabytes of storage, massive amounts of CPU utilization, buckets of ram and vram usage yet only being a few hours of actual content, and often being shorter than games of the 6th generation?
894a45 No.15545948
>>15545942
Who complains about the 90's?
9c63f0 No.15545958
>>15545948
Well, there is things to cry about I'm more referring to the situation of the 90s where software underutilized hardware, modern software development is far too heavily reliant on excess of storage and resources afforded to development studio. leaving most games with paraplegic performance and obese filesizes.
d7ba8e No.15545959
Just look at the difference between what the SNES offered and what the Jaguar offered. The console was resonably priced as well, only 250 dollars for a 64bit system well before the N64 or Playstation hit the market.
9c8a8b No.15545966
>>15545958
>I'm more referring to the situation of the 90s where software underutilized hardware,
When the fuck did that ever happen? I gaurantee you every noteworthy game and even some dubious ones made better use of their hardware than AAA Game with Licensed Engine #7529. Not every engine from the 90s were as optimized as Licensed Engine, but most of them were more optimized due to the total lack of hardware resources compared to now. Smooth scrolling screens were a total fucking mystery on home hardware until the NES came out and even then it wasn't thought possible until John Carmack made a working Mario proof of concept on PC and Nintendo told him to stay the fuck away from their product.
9c8a8b No.15545968
>>15545966
>wasn't thought possible
I meant on home PCs at the time, which was the turn of the 90s.
9e7097 No.15545971
>Jaguar is regarded as a joke
>Actually look up what the Jaguar could do.
>Technically had 3 cores One was a dedicated gpu, so if you want to count that. That could work on different "things" at the same time.
>It supported fucking multi-threading
>Devs of the day couldn't wrap their heads around the concept and a lot of games ended up using the 16-bit task manager cpu that was only meant to delegate task for each chip, instead of even touching that actual 3d gpu it had.
It was too ahead of its time, I can only imagine what games using its true potential would have looked like. For that time anyway.
492bf7 No.15545972
>>15545959
Wasn't it not actually 64bit though?
9c8a8b No.15545973
>>15545959
You do realize that Doom had a Jaguar port and it was hilariously gimped as well? 5 less levels and no text intermissions.
b63574 No.15545976
>>15545971
Wasn't multi-threading a new concept?
9c8a8b No.15545979
>>15545971
>Devs of the day couldn't wrap their heads around the concept
I'm going to have to ask for a citation on that one. Parallel processing has been known about well before the 90s and most devs back then were more dedicated than the average modern dev.
42797c No.15545980
>>15545973
As >>15545971 said, probably devs' fault.
9c8a8b No.15545981
>>15545976
Not in the slightest. You don't need multiple CPUs to create multiple threads. This shit was well understood on UNIX if I recall correctly. That OS dates back to the 60s.
74c91a No.15545983
People didn't even have any idea what all those bits mean, to the point of calling the 6th gen "128-bit".
078ec4 No.15546010
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>15545973
>You do realize that Doom had a Jaguar port and it was hilariously gimped as well?
Boy are you fucking retarded.
It's not a perfect port but the Jaguar version of Doom has visual effects not even possible on PCs at the time.
568ddc No.15546018
I recall reading that Atari rushed the hardware's development, so the Jaguar had a ton of quirks, and making games was hell because devs had to constantly work around them.
d7ba8e No.15546022
>>15545973
Wrong. The only thing the Jaguar version lacked was music because the sound chip was used for other tasks. You are probably confusing the Jaguar version with some other port.
496d3d No.15546055
>>15546010
I'm fucking retarded, but you think visual effects are more important than five entire levels. Explain to me how anyone should take your post seriously.
be5ebc No.15546060
>>15545933
SEGA Saturn, PS1 and N64 were objectively better. What did the Jaguar even have besides Doom without music?
9e7097 No.15546063
>>15545979
I can't the original video that spelled it out for me, but here is the technical manual, but the big take away is that a lot of games made for the system never used its big hitter.
>As well as a general purpose CPU, Jaguar contains four processing units. These are:
- Object Processor
The Object Processor is responsible for generating the display. For each display line it processes a set
of commands - the object list - and generates the display for that line in an internal line buffer.
Objects may be bit maps in a range of display resolutions, they may be scaled, conditional actions may
be performed within the object list, and interrupts to the Graphics Processor may be generated.
- Graphics Processor
The Graphics Processor is a very fast micro-processor which is optimised for performing graphics
generation. It has its own local RAM, and a powerful ALU which includes fast multiply and divide
operations.
- Blitter
The Blitter is closely coupled to the GPU, and is able to rapidly move and fill graphical objects in
memory. It includes hardware support for Z-buffering and shading at very high speed.
- Digital Sound Processor
The Digital Sound Processor is similar to the Graphics Processor, but is intended primarily for
synthesiz
496d3d No.15546065
>>15546022
Whatever you say, faggot.
9e7097 No.15546067
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
I thought this video was informative too.
496d3d No.15546071
>>15546063
>>15546067
I appreciate your effort and I will go through this because I am a programmer and have an interest in these things, but I was more concerned with proof that the games in question performed poorly due to not utilizing the other CPUs.
078ec4 No.15546082
>>15546065
>>15546055
Quite an illiterate nigger you are, as I stated the Jaguar port isn't perfect, but it's still noteworthy for doing lighting effects not possible in the PC port of the time. Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=784MUbDoLjQ&t=35m41s
d7ba8e No.15546089
>>15546010
Interesting that Carmack fucked the Saturn version over.
>>15546065
Okay, then.
c5701a No.15546093
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>15546071
The only game I can think off hand is this one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UM82PgC1VVU
For whatever reason, from what I remember, that task manager chip that ended up being used exclusively still had access the full color range of the Jag, but processing wise, do you see it doing anything that the Genesis or the Super Nin couldn't do? Any of the 3d games had to be some of the stronger hardware.
078df0 No.15546125
It was a hacked together mess of a console. Are people really going to look back on the Jaguar and try to defend it?
e84f08 No.15546132
>>15545933
>>15546010
So did the PSX port and it had all the levels (along with some new ones) from both Doom 1 and 2, music and text intermissions (even new ones). Hell, even the N64 and Saturn had better Doom ports. The Jaguar was a mess of development because, like the Saturn, they added 2 CPUS into the damn thing and made it hard to develop for, instead of making it easy for game devs to make games for your machine. It's the same reason that devs refused to make shit for the 3DS and the PS3 initially: they don't like cobbled together messes that have no objective benefits (and massive drawbacks) to their competitors. If you want your console to be "loved" and put to good use, make sure it isn't hell to develop for.
be5ebc No.15546136
>>15546125
I'll give it ten years max and people here are gonna praise the Ouya as most underrated console of our time.
0ed58c No.15546138
>>15545933
> Do the math
< Hurr durr, let's add the bits of the different processors together, that's how computers work.
>>15545972
No, they just added some numbers, as if it was that simple.
568ddc No.15546140
← Pic related might have been the main cause of the Jaguar's poor third-party support. Jack Tramiel was a ruthless, micromanaging, penny-pinching businessman. Atari under him was notorious for bad customer service and poor documentation. And he was too old-fashioned to understand the importance of fostering software development. Even though he was no longer in charge back then, Atari had made no friends for a long time. No one was keen to do business with them.
e18941 No.15546145
>>15546136
Every year people become more retarded. I give it 3 years tops.
078ec4 No.15546148
>>15546140
But goyim, computers are for the masses, not the classes.
You can blame much of Atari's troubles in the 90s on his Sam, who was such bloviating arrogant kike he threatened to sue Sony and Sega to prevent them from releasing the Saturn and PS1 in America, which was an empty threat to make Atari look like it wasn't falling apart.
6a05bc No.15546155
The Jaguar had really crap documentation, and its hardware was notoriously bugged. Specifically, if I recall correctly, it had two 32 bit processors that communicated together, that's how it came out to being 64 bits, but the communication between the two processors was bugged and needed workarounds. This was never explained, so what most devs did was stick to the Motorola chip that was meant to handle inputs and sound, but use that for EVERYTHING. That processor was similar (if not identical) to the Genesis' processor, so that's what a lot of devs used. A lot of games ended up looking identical to SNES/Genesis games, or at best, Super FX games.
It's only the few exceptions that have already been mentioned in this thread, from people who gave a shit, and the demoscene that got any mileage out of the damn thing.
000000 No.15546190
>>15545933
A console is only as good as its games. ATARI was stupid enough to bank on developers flocking to their shit and autistically maxing out the console's capabilities again. What they should have done is have their own developers produce some killer apps for the Jaguar so it would've fucking sold. Instead they had to deal with a lot of half-assed code by idiots who didn't understand the ATARI platform. PS3 IIRC had similar issues in that it had special tech that developers did not understand and did not properly use (esp. when going cross-platform), making it look like retarded underperforming tech until shit like Uncharted came out.
202bfc No.15546212
>>15546140
>>15546148
>Tramiel was born as Idek Trzmiel[4][5] (some sources also list Juda Trzmiel, Jacek Trzmiel, or Idek Tramielski) into a Jewish family, the son of Abram Josef Trzmiel and Rifka Bentkowska.[4]
>After the German invasion of Poland in 1939 his family was transported by German occupiers to the Jewish ghetto in Łódź, where he worked in a garment factory. When the ghettos were liquidated, his family was sent to the Auschwitz concentration camp. He was examined by Josef Mengele and selected for a work party, after which he and his father were sent to the labor camp Ahlem near Hanover,[6] while his mother remained at Auschwitz. Like many other inmates, his father was reported to have died of typhus in the work camp; however, Tramiel believed he was killed by an injection of gasoline. Tramiel was rescued from the labor camp in April 1945 by the 84th Infantry Division of the US army.
c1eb42 No.15546237
>>15546140
Jack Tramiel wasn't a bad guy though, he simply didn't manage Atari effectively. Commodore was superior in every way to its competitors. Mind you, said competitors had redcoat faggot "people" like this designing the products, so there wasn't much competition in the first place, but still.
e6578e No.15546250
>>15546212
WHOAH!
>The admission of a typhus epidemic?!
>Actually writing the words "Tramiel believed his father was killed by an injection of gasoline."
Surely this isn't (((kikepedia)))!
3dfe3c No.15546331
>>15546212
THEY PUT MY FATHER IN THE GASOLINE CHAMBER OYYYYYY
a90030 No.15546340
>>15546331
IT WAS REAL IN MY MIND!
078ec4 No.15546347
>>15546340
>>15546331
Do I need to report you antisemitic goyim to the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum?
db8348 No.15546355
>>15546212
So that's why Germany had a gasoline shortage, they injected it all into the jews.
3dfe3c No.15546368
>>15546355
NEVER FORGET THE COMBUSTION CHAMBERS
20dda7 No.15546425
>>15546368
>>15546355
>>15546212
>>15546148
>>15546140
It really never ceases to amaze me how true image related really is.
ed4f0e No.15546454
>>15546212
What's with all Jews intimately meeting Josef Mengele, I'm so jelly
a90030 No.15546520
>>15546454
Don’t you know that Mengele personally met with every inmate at Auschwitz, and still had time for performing experiments like sowing twins together and dunking Jews in ice water?
1a64f6 No.15546606
>>15545959
Playstation was a true 3d console, jaguar was false 2d/3d.
d7ba8e No.15546675
>>15546606
Playstation was only 32 bits. Jaguar was 64.
4728a2 No.15546684
>>15545958
Is english like a second language for you or something? Like I get what you're trying to say but your wording is AWFUL.
0b586a No.15546771
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>15546022
>>15546060
You could always just thrown some Slayer on your stereo back in the day and you were all set!
371fb4 No.15546784
>>15545959
Doom 64 is better than Doom 2.
83879f No.15546806
>>15545933
Every single generation of consoles up until the wiiU/PS4/Xbone has seen the weakest console in terms of power be the winner by a large margin. There is absolutely no surprise in the Jaguar's utter failure. Power is naught but a meme, what truly matters is catalogue, simplicity, and convenience.
05cdf5 No.15546821
>>15545933
> Why did such a good console have to die without any love?
Many reasons, but the most important one is nobody seriously wanted to study how the fucking thing worked, except a literal furfag
>>15545959
>Not comparing SNES doom to JAG doom
You fucked up.
de6620 No.15547282
>>15546125
I am hacking up this message to talk about a hacked together console because they just hacked some parts together and hacked the games while hacking. They were some hackers who hacked it, and I can't believe hacking hackers hack hacked hacks.
>thinks he sounds kewl and knowledgeable, sounds like a nigger with aids
de6620 No.15547284
>>15546684
like is like like a like for like like?
like like like like
>american maximum retard complaining about someone else's language abilities
de6620 No.15547296
>>15546212
This article brings a tear to my eye because I was in the, camps. They moved me to seven different camps after the gas ran out, they say my lungs were too big to take in enough gas, and they would beat me with the bones of the ones that had died that morning, after having cremated them in the terrible ovens, after gassing them and injecting them with photography developing fluid and liquid gold. But they died in the ovens, I still remember the sounds of the children and especially pregnant women who were riding on the rollercoaster powered by rocket fuel and running 24 hours a day, as it sent them into the ovens which were heated by burning ancient Greek and Roman parchments. Joseph Mengele himself would sit and read bedtime stories to me for hours every night, and come at 6 in the morning to wake me up for breakfast by the pool. He killed a song aibo in front of my eyes once when I refused to brush my teeth with the toothpaste made of banknotes and lottery tickets.
9d1c3a No.15547299
>>15545933
Jaguar was a fucking turd, and (((Western))) companies are cancerous. If Jaguar took over, the gaming industry just would've went to shit a decade before the cuckbox.
e2d93c No.15547329
Even if it was more powerful if it doesn't have good games its shit. Even if it has good games it might still fail.
22401b No.15547360
>>15545933
It's not a true 64-bit system. It's jewish marketing.
cca4e1 No.15547385
>Oh I wanna Super Nintendo for Christmas
>Don't you already have a Nintendo
>Yeah but this one's 16 bits?
>What's that?
>I don't know
50aa88 No.15547386
You can do the math all you want, but the fact of the matter is, adding the bits of parallel processors is wrong. The Jaguar was 32-bit, but they tried to say it was the first 64-bit console because it had two 32-bit CPUs working in parallel. By this logic, a Ryzen 7 or Core i7 CPU of today is potentially a 512-bit system. But that's not how bits work, and when we specify something is X-bit, we're talking about the memory bandwidth and flops that a CPU possesses. You can only accomplish the bits of your CPUs in unison, so for the Jaguar to be 64-bit, it would need to have two 64-bit RISC processors. It didn't, it had 2 32-bit RISC processors. That means it was the first parallelism in a console (which meant threading, a process that was highly misunderstood back then).
1d35f4 No.15547404
I remember when the Jaguar came out. It was possibly the most nogames console made up to that point, the one shitty space game they had to demo it looked so awful compared to even Amiga games that kids just walked past it (looking it up, I think it was Cybermorph), and all the marketing was pushing the bullshit 64 bit thing super hard as marketing was really all they had. It's the only console I can remember where none of the marketing in stores was about games. I only learned anything substantial about it a decade later. Its failure was not shocking at all.
I guess at least stores thought enough of it to put it in the game section. FEDCO banished the Phillips CD-I to home electronics..
50aa88 No.15547415
>>15547404
Funny enough, I was a game magazine buyer as a kid, I would get my parents to buy me copies of the two big magazines at the time (can't even remember their names these days), and when I saw the advertisements for the Jaguar I was like "what the hell is this? Looks like garbage" and completely disregarded the Jaguar. I never would have gotten a Jaguar from my parents anyway, $600 was completely out of the fucking question, but wow, not only was the Jaguar so expensive, its games were super expensive too. Still not as bad as the Neo Geo (which used actual arcade hardware in both cartridges and the console itself), but damn.
I don't think I ever even saw a Jaguar in stores ever.
1d35f4 No.15547417
Btw if you want some bit bullshit for the PC to start an autist war with, the 386 could be called a 64 bit system as the bus was 64 bit and the FPU could work with 64 bit words. If you wanted to clear the screen really fast on the 386 (for games and demos that needed to clear it per frame) you'd repeatedly tell the FPU to store a zero value and aim its storage at video memory and it'd be way faster than using the 32 bit CPU (the FPU was a co-processor at the time). It sounds incredibly fucking stupid and it was. Intel really does not deserve to be where it is today.
72518b No.15547426
nogames + terrible graphics even compared to the PS1 + clunkier controller than Dreamcast's or Xbox Duke = shit console
50aa88 No.15547452
>>15547417
I don't know where you're getting your data from, because looking up the FPU of the 386 doesn't return any results of a 64-bit FPU. It wouldn't make any sense for there to be a 64-bit coprocessor to work with a 32-bit processor because there would be no way for said FPU to even take advantage of being 64-bit. You might be thinking that 64-bit numbers would require a 64-bit CPU, and that's not the case.
568ddc No.15547462
>>15547426
> terrible graphics even compared to the PS1
But the PS1 had excellent graphics for the time.
6f4138 No.15547489
>>15547386
>[25] On the other side, Next Generation, while giving a mostly negative review of the Jaguar, maintained that it is a true 64-bit system, since the data path from the DRAM to the CPU and Tom and Jerry chips is 64 bits wide.
It was a 64 bit system because both the processors could work through a 64-bit memory bus. Which if you faggots knew anything at all about what the bit size actually does you would know that makes Jaguar a 64-bit system even if it is with two 32-bit processors working in tandem.
6f4138 No.15547492
>>15547415
>$600 dollars
Funny, since it was 250 dollars at launch.
1692d0 No.15547500
>>15547284
Australians don't know how to type properly
T. 'strayan
a414ff No.15547514
>>15545933
Because Atari were retarded, the 64-bit thing was an utter meme and it had nogaems.
6f4138 No.15547519
>>15547514
Atari wasn't big enough by that time to corner developers like Nintendo or to have its own strong game development division.
cca4e1 No.15547549
>>15546067
What's the purpose of the empty pads? I see net masks for capacitors or IC but nothing in those areas.
3dfafc No.15547551
>>15545933
You millennial cucks really have no clue. In your soy addicted brain, everything in the 90s happens at the same time. The Jaguar didn't come out together with the Genesis and SNES to fight on the same ground, you know.
It was a late, poorly supported machine that no one cared about: its idea of a killer application was a vector shooter. It was something from a bygone age, people laughed at it like the disco character from the Simpsons. It had its own version of Alien vs Predator? Big deal, since FPS were unthinkable outside of PCs and well ahead nonetheless.
3dfafc No.15547556
>>15546425
>jews are behind everything
You need to get comfortable with the notion that America is a caste based society, where Jews are the leaders\literates\artists and everyone else a worker. Enjoy being a palestinian.
13761b No.15547557
Good consoles are just paperweights if they don't have good games. Do you play hardware or vidya?
13761b No.15547568
>>15546136
Its weird. Apparently N64, Dreamcast and Xbox360 won and yet I remember it quite differently.
People just really hate Sony I guess.
568ddc No.15547573
>>15547551
>its idea of a killer application was a vector shooter.
Atari actually hated Tempest 2000 because wireframes don't make great screenshots, and didn't intend to promote it. But when the press (which back then still had a clue) got a chance to play it, everyone loved it.
6f4138 No.15547586
>>15547551
>1993
>too late to compete with the SNES and Genesis
Funny, since the SNES was only two years old when the Jaguar came out.
a29e18 No.15547740
>>15546060
>He thinks Doom 64 is a port
Every single time the subject of Doom ports comes up, I always see knuckle draggers lump Doom 64 in with the ports of Doom 1. Are they too stupid to understand that it's a brand new game?
72518b No.15548039
>>15547462
PS1 was also 32-bit and the big selling point was the Jaguar had 64-bit graphics. At the time casuals thought color depth = better graphics.
PS1 also didn't have a fucking phone pad below the start button. You'd think Atari would have learned from the Colecovision.
6f4138 No.15548055
>>15548039
>having more buttons is bad
4931f8 No.15548081
>>15547740
That post said no such thing though.
13761b No.15548100
Why are people so autistic about hardware? I dont give a shit if the Jaguar was 10 times more powerful and neither do consumers.
Its the GAMES stupid. Suck every third party developer's cock and you win. Its what Sony did in 1994 and what Xbox did in 2005.
9d1c3a No.15548115
>>15547740
>brand new game
Nope. It's just a map pack for Doom.
479ad7 No.15548171
>>15545933
When you think about it, telling kids in the 90's to "do the math" as part of an advertising campaign was fucking retarded. Nothing makes kids want to buy systems more than their bitchy looking match teacher telling them to do homework.
07bf04 No.15548516
>>15548171
Wait until they replace that with 'don't mansplain' in the PS5 ads.