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File: d86525a4478ab0f⋯.jpg (24.95 KB,403x420,403:420,73472530_10217310776913106….jpg)

 No.425956

>Playing 5e

>Party is a LG Dwarf Paladin, CN Longtooth Shifter Ranger, and CG Half Orc Barbarian

>Captured by a tribe of Orcs, where they encounter a LE Human Necromancer Wizard who is also imprisoned by said Orcs

>They attempt an escape, but the Paladin decides to challenge the warchief to single combat and loses, only surviving because the Necromancer throws in the towel after the Warchief starts attacking his downed ass and he auto-fails two death saves.

>Entire party is imprisoned again, and the paladin has a grudge at the necromancer for 'dishonoring us by showing weakness' and 'you are not one of us and dont speak for us' on top of calling her a 'blasphemous witch'

>Party gets sold off to a king who the party has been fighting againts.

>He frees the party and let's us go, but not before explaining his motivation in invading the petty kingdom we started in

>The region is constantly at war and he wants to bring stability to the region

>He is very convincing, pointing out the squalor that the people of Dirkwood kingdom live in

>Paladin gets up and refuses to listen to him because a crying orphan made him sad, and so we must stop him

>Apparently long term stability and less war orphans in the long term is bad, but the status quo must be maintained because 'muh feels'

>Necromancer is convinced, and the Barbarian is undecided. Ranger is too low IQ to understand so they side with 'the alpha' (the paladin)

>Barbarian is the only person friendly to the Necromancer, asks them their opinion 

>Necromancer shares their point of view only to be shouted down by the Paladin who again says they aren't one of them and thus don't get a vote 

>Necromancer has already secretly agreed to work with the invading King, in exchange for amnesty for the part's actions.

I swear to god this Paladin is sucking the fun out of the campaign and I've only been in for two sessions.

So how exactly do you deal with a Paladin who tries forcing his moral code on other characters?

____________________________
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 No.425958

>>425956

Why did the NPC necromancer save the paladin in the first place? And if the party were enemies of the king, why did he bother buying them only to let them go free afterwards?

Seems to me that the paladin getting away with stupid shit is indicative of a deeper problem. The DM sounds like a complete fucking wuss who doesn't let the characters of stupid players suffer the naturally fatal results of their stupid choices. If a player is being an idiot, he shouldn't be getting away with stupid shit. He needs to be rerolling a new character to replace his old character that died from doing stupid shit.

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 No.425959

File: f761fc3a0955e6d⋯.jpg (234.63 KB,1000x1527,1000:1527,PURGE AND CLEANSE PURGE AN….jpg)

File: d1b2c6ed66e72d4⋯.jpg (3.6 MB,770x9276,385:4638,By the Job - Dragon 271.jpg)

File: 1938123807495cd⋯.jpg (2.48 MB,716x7194,358:3597,Good Monster Cult Prcs - D….jpg)

File: 43a27d6e04fce75⋯.jpg (41.28 KB,400x399,400:399,Gray Guard by Franz Vohwin….jpg)

>>425956

Honestly, this paladin sounds like a lawful 'muh feels' zealot. He honestly reminds me of Agrivar from AD&D comics when he was dealing with the nutjob Tarrasque cultist and immediately went turbo-autism because of the chromatic dragons in the vicinity. Pic related, he achieved peak Doomguy mode from his autism.

Unless that paladin learns the lesson Agrivar did here, then he's walking on a road to the kind of lawful good dickery only Gygaxian LG can achieve through black and white thinking. Imagine how much of a mental breakdown he'd have when he finds out some good outsiders can be massive cunts, or even work with lawful evil outsiders, good monster cults, or similar shit.

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 No.425960

>>425958

>Why did the King buy them

Apparently he had wanted us (heroes) to join him by giving his side of the story. He got my Necromancer to agree that he was in the right.

>Why did the necromancer save him

Because it was my first session with the group and I was replacing another character who had refused to help the party.

>>425959

Yeah, and I'm looking forward to raising the dead in two levels, because I know he will have a turbo-autism fit.

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 No.425961

File: 281d7d1923e973a⋯.png (622.38 KB,806x1920,403:960,Skeleton warrior.png)

File: 03b839feda7c254⋯.png (660.22 KB,806x2098,403:1049,Juju Zombie TOHR.png)

File: 5729f004a330617⋯.png (989.33 KB,1292x1268,323:317,Necromancer Flaws.png)

File: c0026380c8faf5a⋯.png (705.46 KB,500x726,250:363,Vile Death 35.png)

File: aa4ddd43bd81342⋯.png (4.23 MB,767x6285,767:6285,Paladins of Greyhawk - Dra….png)

>>425960

Have a gentleman's agreement where the paladin can dispatch any undead you use per encounter if he autisms, the party will have less disposition towards his unwavering inflexibility, if he agrees, the party still complains if they get into trouble in situations where dangers could have been mitigated through benefit of higher numbers, if he's really a paladin, he'll take the time to lecture the fuck out of you at every given opportunity to get you to change your ways or restrict yourself, bar that, simply prove he only projects the teachings of his order and his own self-righteous attitudes but has little sense of his own to comprehend them outright. Honestly, this is what happens when objective alignment loses it's significance in the world at large. If you also want to try and make yourself look more sympathetic, ask the GM to implement [evil] descriptor spell penalties as well as side-effects to your craft, such as vile darkness & taint. People tend to think wizards can just wizard for free, but individuals like Raistalin, or certain spellcasters with things like magical staffs for familiars all came at a price. if you're someone who's literally crippling themselves for the sake of law & order, it makes the paladin look very disrespectful in the eyes of others, thanks to his clergy brought up training, donation bought armaments, and 'dedication' to the downtrodden. How is he going to look if you were once one of the people like the orphans he so upholds as paragons of his reason to fight? There's also the fact that many LE organizations, faiths & guilds do a lot of good, people forget that clerics offer their services to others, regardless of their alignments most of the time- churches need funding, after all, and then there's things like development, protection of trade routes/borders, etc. For the probable conflict that could only be broken up by pressing matters/a greater threat, leading to someone's death, here's some interesting things to put into play:

Skeleton warriors, the cursed martial made to wear circlets that bind them in undeath, like cheaper a cheaper death knight, but also a form of punishment.

As an alternative, Thayan Juju Zombies, or traditional Ennervation Juju Zombies.

NWN1 only doom-knights, undead forms holy warriors who fell on/before death, good if he really makes an ass of himself before the end, tend to be of opposite alignment they had in life, due to renouncing their values they made an oath to uphold.

There's a 9th level spell called Vile Death, where after an hour of casting, one imposes an aligned fiend onto a user-created undead, making the undead in question fiendish, this of itself has advantages in undead creation through use of desecration, but it also because it can be used on any user created undead- it would grant an unwilful skeleton warrior the ability to class as a blackguard, and technically put the soul of the trapped individual on the back seat, based on the aligned fiend that fuses with the undead in question. So, one could use this to FORCE a paladin, trapped in an undead state, to be lawful evil, and technically a blackguard, because of the fiend thing.

Don't get me wrong though, LE has the E in it for a reason, there's always something harmful or selfish that can be worked needlessly against others through means of law, or otherwise simply done because of a cynical dismissive worldview, so whatever it is, keep it hidden from others.

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 No.425968

>>425956

As a fellow GM, I would pull the player aside and question his motives. I would ask, like others have noted, that stability in the region would lead to overall fewer orphans.

If his primary issue is that ONE orphan, perhaps exploit that:

>Have the king be haughty and demand that this one orphan be brought before him, that the paladin can prove his rightousness

>go look for the kid

>kid's nowhere to be found... at first

>ask around

>some old lady know of a few kids that match the kid's description, but they aren't orphans

>they're the kids of a wealthy merchant, one who's business the players have bought suppliers/weapons/armor from

>wtf?

>seek out merchant, who lives in a well-fortified estate in one of the few walled cities in the kingdom of Dirkwood

>sure enough, the kid is there, but claims to never have seen the party before

>if taken before the "evil" king who is invading, the king's spymaster will have a tale to tell:

>apparently the merchant is part of a cabal of arms dealers that had been luring in adventurers to kill off anyone trying to actually stabilise the region

>they have profited greatly from the instability, arming opposing factions

>the king of Dirkwood is greatly indebted to them and thus can't touch them

bam, Paladin's reason for being a dick is out the window, he can feel rightous for helping the "evil" king pacify the region and then also bringing the merchants to justice

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 No.425975

>party already has LG paladin

>roll up evil necromancer

>start cutting deals for screwing over the rest of the party

You're both shit and deserve each other.

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 No.425976

File: 90ca48e833d16f8⋯.png (85 KB,402x456,67:76,simply not healthy.png)

>>425975

This. A functional DnD party simply can't have a paladin and an evil necromancer in it if you take roleplaying seriously at all. That's like having a chaos sorcerer and a Sigmarite warpriest in a Warhammer party.

Play a different system or design the party as a group to avoid obvious incompatibilities. This is pretty basic shit.

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 No.425981

File: 75e4271ca403dc1⋯.jpg (36.27 KB,686x580,343:290,703.jpg)

Why is a LE Necromancer and a LG Paladin in the same party?

Why should the party arbitrarily side with a king who invades petty kingdoms, claiming its for stability? Like, if they are from said kingdom, they should want to fight him off and then return the favor with invading HIS kingdom. Bonus point, you have no proof that the king could achieve any stability and could just be another warlord with delusions.

I have NO issue with DM posing this choice mind you, choices like this are great, BUT the DM should be prepared for the party denying his request.

Also, the Paladin was in the right. Bonefucker opinions don't matter.

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 No.426000

>>425959

>He honestly reminds me of Agrivar from AD&D comics when he was dealing with the nutjob Tarrasque cultist and immediately went turbo-autism because of the chromatic dragons in the vicinity.

Excuse me, is it the context? Because from just that image, it seems he has a excellent reason to be angry.

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 No.426001

>>426000

>>426000

He is and he isn't. He's got a point, but because he fucks off, the cultist suceeds, summons the tarrasque, which proceeds to unpopulate the fuck out of dragonkind and nearly decimate his companions.

He learns the errors of his ways after some soul-searching with a little help from a dragon polymorhped as an animal to demonstrate some principles of nature or somesuch.

That said, hes not exactly world's best paladin, he's an ex-drunk, his dad (I think?) boned Selune as a mortal, and his sister is an OC Dunut steel Drow/Sun Elf/half-elf combo who essentially got all the cosmic bullshit genes being who's a massive maneater. and the current events involved both good and evil dragons comprimising to combat a common enemy over the issues of a mass migration that would've arguably done damage as a whole to the realms, opposed to a few destroyed cities/ruined agriculture because of the cultists desire for maximum devastation. Hell, it was something directly on Elminster's plate at the time- that's how serious the matter was. E- had to stay at home to deliver one of his best buddies kids wiith the help of a Bruce-Campbell Halfling out of Cheese-cocaine rehab who also let out an old 1e-2e Tethryr blackguard from E's nobility days.

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 No.426003

>have paladin

>introduce necromancer

Are you retarded?

Necromancy is not only evil but straight up unholy, you're literally making use of elemental evil.

This is on you, you could've had a monk or a priest to guide the party instead of a literal practitioner of unholy magic.

Not to say the Paladin is smart or good but sure as fuck you setup a situation where the Paladin could do nothing but be against this.

Furthermore, a Paladin is also a FUCKING KNIGHT WHO PLEDGES FEALTY TO A LORD/KING/KINGDOM.

You're an idiot OP.

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 No.426006

>>425956

Just talk the party out of saving him next time and let him die from his own stupid actions.

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