/tg/ - Traditional Games

>D&D hands out a lot of magical treasure

D&D does not.

DMs do.

> fix this bug

Fix the DM.

Why bother with the whole emissaries bullshit and just have gods bless useful items (or dole out resurrections) in exchange for offerings to a shrine? Cuts out the magic mart in favor of something more fantastic.

>>397115

No, 3E is explicitly balanced around player characters getting a certain amount of magic items. It's literally a table in the DMG. You can't blame the GM when every official published adventure follows it at least roughly. A non-caster without these items is completely fucking useless even against monsters far behind his level.

4E is even worse because the math is even more skewed to require magic items. 5E claims to be better, but if you look at the published modules and the monster math it's clear they still expect you to have magic items by certain levels.

>>397131

>published Adventures

I expected more of you.

>>397131

>>397138

3E and 5E objectively have issues in this department because of WBL and other aspects of the game balance. You can neuter your loot, but it won't do jack shit. It's explicitly the opposite of older editions, where the game is designed around no magic items (though what magic items you're allowed to use is taken into account, in case you do run into them), and every one you have is a bonus.

4E does the same shit, but if you use Inherent Bonuses rules, it neutralizes the matter. I ran a 4E campaign under that policy using old-school rules for magic items, plus a few other gimmicks like critical hits and fumbles, and it really made for fun. Can't do that with the other new rule-sets. But that said, it's not the intended way of playing, either, and 4E still has plenty of problems.

In any event, WotC-D&D is poorly designed for magic items. This is a recognized fact. You can adjust it, but that doesn't chance the fact it's a problem that you had to take a certain action to fix.

>>397183

>It's explicitly the opposite of older editions, where the game is designed around no magic items (though what magic items you're allowed to use is taken into account, in case you do run into them), and every one you have is a bonus.

I haven't read many old adventures but I was pretty suprised how common magical weapons are in "keep on the borderlands". It seemd to me like almost every guard had one.

>>397209

Gygax liked magic-heavy parties.

>>397209

Yeah, it's weird. I played a game with a legit grog as a GM, and by the time we were around mid-level, we'd run into entire tribes of orcs with spears +1 and stuff. But it was like there was this cut-off at that point. +1 meant jack shit, but someone shows up with a +2 and it's a big deal. +3 or bigger? Huge news. Bag of holdings? Literally buy them in town. More powerful shit, not so much.

You see that shit elsewhere to. Like there was a sort of group conscious of "these things are common" and then "these things are not" that everyone who played became aware of.

>>397266

> Bag of holdings? Literally buy them in town.

Reportedly, Bags of Holding were a core magic item from the very earliest days. It's somewhat bizarre, but it's one of those quirks that warped the genre and still stays with us.

>>397332

well, running logistics isnt very fun for most players.

>>397332

Not to mention Bag of Holding opens up a lot of issues if they're common place. Armies can move further and with more supplies. Work out how to make one big enough and (if living creatures survive) put a whole army in your backpack.

You could do some hand-waving though.

> Anti-magic spells are common, so walking around with a whole army's equipment in bags of holding is bad when the bags suddenly erupt them into the air or makes them vanish into oblivion. As such they're better for individual or clandestine use, as oppose for armies.

Still doesn't solve the issue of someone sneaking in with a BoH filled with enough explosives to level a city.

>>397354

>Not to mention Bag of Holding opens up a lot of issues if they're common place.

...have you ever actually played D&D, or even just taken a look at the DMG? Bags of Holding, like most other magic items, are RIDICULOUSLY expensive for anyone who isn't an adventurer, especially if you're trying to outfit an entire army with them. The real issue are items like Sustaining Spoon and Decanter of Endless Water, with which you can feed an entire army for a sum that's still relatively affordable for a king(although the spoon isn't nearly as good as I remembered it being, so while you could use them to supplement your supplies, you wouldn't want to use them to replace rations completely).

>>397131

>No, 3E is explicitly balanced around player characters getting a certain amount of magic items.

This is so true, and it's the reason why I've never enjoyed D&D a lot, as someone who believes magic items should be kind of legendary and a big deal.

DMing without your players having magic items is a nightmare, because at that point you can't rely on what the monster manuals say about monster levels and difficulty. Talking of 3.5, by the way, since it's the only one I've played.

>>397335

Most players are youtube-addicted retards whose idea of roleplaying is making a quip before stabbing your NPCs, too.

>>397431

>...have you ever actually played D&D, or even just taken a look at the DMG? Bags of Holding, like most other magic items, are RIDICULOUSLY expensive for anyone who isn't an adventurer, especially if you're trying to outfit an entire army with them.

anon these are almost limitless even a single one in an entire army allows for some ridiculous uses. fuck just having a place where you can safely put all the loot from pillaged towns is VERY convenient from an army perspective

>>397335

This. Whether the game is of the tabletop or video variety, I HATE inventory management. Doesn't even matter if I'm a player or the GM, the fun of loot is getting it and deciding how to use it, not figuring out how to carry it, what's worth taking, deciding what to drop off, etc. As far as I'm concerned, everybody should more or less have infinite room for things of a size that wouldn't be hard to carry on its own. So basically, carry all the potions you can find, but if you want to take that refrigerator with you, now we're actually going to pay attention to physical logistics. Good ol' cartoon carrying capacity.

That said, of course there are people who enjoy that stuff and like to pay attention to realistic carrying capacity and that's fine for them, but for me it's either inventory management or fun, pick one. As such, bags of holding and their ilk are quite possibly my favorite of all magic items, since they allow both sides to coexist. If I'm making a new character under a GM cares about realistic inventory management, magical storage is always my first priority.

>>409395

One way that you can do it is to implement a Flesh Point/Grit Point system, that is used in a couple of OSR games.

Every creature has Flesh. This is essentially physical HP. Some creatures have Grit. This is essentially the "go beyond" stuff that PCs tend to have. You start off with 1 HD of Flesh and one 1 HD of Grit at Level 1, and all further HD are in Grit. Most monsters, like Ogres or what you have, have a lot of HD, but it's all in the form of Flesh. Others, like Demons, might have a mix of Flesh and Grit, the latter here representing their supernatural aspect.

In terms of healing, Grit is easy to recover from - maybe even fully recovered after each encounter. Flesh is very hard to recover, taking weeks of time or magic, potions, etc.

Certain attacks, target the Flesh directly. So poisons, for instance, cause damage just to Flesh, which makes them extremely dangerous, and often lethal. So do attacks on helpless creatures. Thus, an Ogre is a big dude, and less susceptible to a venomous spider biting him than a human (much as adults are more resistant than children). Poisoning a dragon? Almost useless. Helpless? Yeah, it's easy enough to gank a sleeping person, but an Ogre has a thick layer of fat, and a Dragon being asleep isn't going to help you get your shitty sword through its scales.

It seems that the problem is, in some systems at least, that after a point characters become so durable that the player loses the sense of being in danger and thus part of the fun that is suspenseful or thrilling. You can easily drop dead during those first adventures but aside from special effects like some magic the durability or lots of HP or health levels has to be balanced by something reminding the player, which he can just do himself without any rules added, that his character is always struggling to dodge that hammer blow or that claw swipe and the he could be dead at any moment.

-No female can have a natural Strength Score greater than 14, Dexterity Score greater than 16 and Constitution greater than 14 (except in Athas, Dark Sun), any points over the limits can be transferred to dexterity, intelligence, wisdom or charisma. Females cannot raise their strength, dexterity or constitution score over their natural limits by gaining levels, or by any natural in-game means. Only magical or other means make this possible.

-Females can cast an extra one spell per day for every spell level they can cast except for the highest, if they choose a spellcasting class (arcane, divine or psionic).This applies only to the first class they choose. The extra magical energy is due to females being able to store extra magical energy. If they are not a spellcasting class they receive an extra 4 skill points at 1st level which however are not multiplied.

-Females that have choose a warrior class gain the following benefit*. In any fight where the character confronts a male^ who is not familiar with her personally or female warriors in general, she gets a +1 bonus to attack and damage on her first blow only. If the class is Amazon this is a +3 bonus. This is because her opponent’s guard is down.

This does not work on other PCs unless the player is role-playing honestly enought to declare that he, too, would underestimate her.

This ability does not work on some other type of characters:

An NPC who is wary enough not to underestimate the character might, with a succesful intelligence check (roll under Int on a d20), see the attack coming and deny her the bonus;

A seasoned veteran (any Warror of 5th level or higher or any other character of 8th level or higher), in spite of prejudice, will realize that she is moving like a trained warrior and keep his guard up, denying her the bonus.

If the character hits an NPC with this attack, he’ll never again be prey to it; if an NPC even sees an the warrior hit someone with it, he’ll never fall for it himself. But if she misses that first strike, then the target will continue to underestimate her and she can use those bonuses again on her next strike.

Hindrance; The character suffers a -3 Charisma adjustment from NPCs who are from male-dominated societies. This adjustment goes away for characters who come to respect her, such as (presumably) her PC allies.

See Half-Orcs or Neanderthals as Characters for females with naturally high strength scores.

*Complete fighter's Handbook, see amazon kit for 2e D&D.

^from a civilized race, almost always a PC race, as this ability does not work on monsters such as Orcs.

Strength & Bodyweight Correlation

Str Score/Body Weight for small to medium-sized humanoids

12/lowest is 56 Kg

13/lowest is 62 Kg

14/lowest is 77 Kg

15/lowest is 85 Kg

16/lowest is 94 Kg

17/lowest is 105 kg

18/lowest is 106 kg

18+/add 15 kgs to lowest bw limit

>>397101

>For example, D&D hands out a lot of magical treasure. D&D 3.0 hands out a ridiculous amount of magical treasure. This leads to weird after-the-fact attempts to fix the balance of the game. For example, one could have a campaign in which the established Powers that Be run magical item shops that mostly buy up magic items. Or one could publish a class like the original Artificer class, which could break down unwanted magic items and turn them into crafting points.

Or: casters got even more overpowered, while warriors "hurr, we learned which is the business end of the spear".

Solution: give warriors what amounts to heir own spellcasting. Book of Weaboo Fightan Magic

>>409459

This is literally the d20 ogl Vitality/Wounds system.

>>422031

>Tome of battle: 9 euphemisms for my dick

More DMs should use this book.

>>422037

OGL Vitality/Wounds makes it directly equal to Constitution, which tends to be a lot higher. The general method I've seen from what's described there is having it equal to a standard HD, and optionally advancing by +1 per level.

But if you want to talk chronology, I can think of at least one D&D derivative from the 70s - BM&G - that already used a two-split system like that back then, so it doesn't really mean much.

>>423071

Got a PDF?

>>409598

So,at the cost of 3 capped stats (which can be circumvented by magic), females get:

>One extra spell per day for every spell or 4 extra skill points

>A bonus to hit and damage on turn 1

And the only pickle is -3 Charisma adjustment which is really easily overcome

I don't see it as a downside, do you?

>>423105

It's on the trove