No.387971
I sometimes find myself wanting to run a completely non-combat game. Not just less combat, or a session that's more roleplay heavy, but no murderhoboing at all, for an entire campaign. It seems like a fun idea at first, but so few systems support this kind of play (not even counting awful hipster """𝓪𝓻𝓽""" games), and so few players would even be interested in playing something that wasn't built from skinner box kill-and-reward game design.
Let's discuss non-combat games: How to run them, how to make them engaging, how to get people on board and invested in them, and how to overcome the hurdles of removing instant gratification from the roleplaying experience.
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No.387974
>>387971
Look over the old Miyazaki films. That's a good way to build things, albeit you'll want to make things free-form. Consider the scenario in Spirited Away as a good example of something where the protagonist manages to handle things without just going through and slaughtering stuff.
The big key to doing it is to have a concrete goal, either built in as game progression (XP) or decided at the start of play by the group, such as "save Anon's sister" for a one-shot. You need to put work into NPC design - give them a personality, but also give them things they want, things they have, and so forth. The truth of the matter is, you'll not make a game where the PCs can't kill - but you can prevent it. Make the 'obstacles' into forces that can't really be killed (for instance, an ancient Witch who can steal your name, vs. the PCs are little girls). Make it so interacting with people reveals something, which can be used by playing games of social favors for the sake of accomplishing something. More important than anything, in this case - don't have a fucking skill system. If you need to "roll Diplomacy" to get results, that's not good.
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No.387979
>>387971
>I sometimes find myself wanting to run a completely non-combat game. Not just less combat, or a session that's more roleplay heavy, but no murderhoboing at all, for an entire campaign.
Court politics, espionage ("if you need to actually use a weapon, you fucked up badly" sort, not James Bond sort).
In Birthright you occasionally need to personally go on adventures and/or fight, but it's the risky part you want to minimize, the real campaign is about making sure your ass is covered and maneuvering for advantages and leverage.
>It seems like a fun idea at first, but so few systems support this kind of play
What kind of play? Talking with NPCs? :D
Or a skill system that isn't fucked up?
> How to run them, how to make them engaging, how to get people on board and invested in them, and
You need to have actual setting, characters and plot for that.
> how to overcome the hurdles of removing instant gratification from the roleplaying experience.
Try to use players who don't wet they panties from rolling the dice and waiting. Shouldn't be too hard.
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No.387980
Travelling is always great. Just work on narration to capture every place they visit. From a mountain overlooking a lake during autumn to a sleepy port town. Make each place interesting and the NPCs memorable.
Hell, coming into a cozy bar after being caught in the rain and drinking your troubles away sounds nice. Especially if the bartender shares all sorts of jokes and stories while a bard plays some local folk song.
The main conflicts you should have is from nature. Storms, snow, etc.
The only combat I might consider decent for that sort of setting is hunting. However, encourage your party to focus more on what to do with what they hunted rather than the combat. Less "How much xp do I get?" and more "What am I going to cook with this? I hope I don't damage the pelt so I can sell it in the next town."
But really, focus on narration and tone.
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No.387990
>>387971
>no murderhoboing at all,
Take a look at the pc game "Patrician" for ideas on how to make "buy low, sell high" into an engaging challenge.
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No.387999
>>387974
Maybe non-combat wasn't the right term to use. Perhaps non-adventure might make more sense? It can be argued that even in games where the PCs aren't sword swinging and spell slinging, you can still have the same sort of risk and reward, and the explicit goal of overcoming a challenge or threat.
Hakumei and Mikochi was what really got me thinking about this sort of game. Something more slice of life, and less adventurous. It got me thinking if it could work at all. A game that's more self-motivated where the challenges are mundane and personal. Something like that would make combat seem awkward and tonally out of place. I guess if you pitched it right, telling your players you wanted to run something like Animal Crossing or Harvest Moon in tabletop form, they might get it, but it's hard to see the average roleplayer picking that sort of game over a basic kill-loot-level kind of game.
>You need to put work into NPC design - give them a personality, but also give them things they want, things they have, and so forth.
I think strong NPC characterization and a reasonable amount of depth in their personalities is what makes players gravitate away from murderhoboing. I've run a few games where the players had a lot of fun just talking to and fooling around with silly NPCs that grabbed their attention, which got them to ask questions and interact and play more sincerely. It injects some humanity into the game.
>>387980
Ryuutama fits what you're describing in a big way. Combat and fighting are options in that game, but the focus is on traveling and exploring and experiencing the world. I might have to go back and give that system another look over.
>>387990
Mercantile games are interesting, but the bookkeeping can rapidly become too much to deal with at times. A low-key comfy Spice and Wolf style game would be really nice, however. Keeping things small with only one cart to worry about would ease up the bookkeeping, but player greed and laziness would cause some problems.
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No.388005
The only interesting to play way is to have pc/npc to be aliens who cant understand what mundane means. Do you think many people understand that there are more to math than base10? Drop players in a world with base13. Limit their resources and play resource management game. If someone fools them, they are fucked. Even Earth cultures has some weird shit in them.
And you have to think beyond "I want to invent most boring game ever". The most important part is to convince someone to play it. Might be more interesting than the game itself.
>>387999
>slice of life, and less adventurous
>challenges are mundane and personal
Parenting: the RPG. Players play as kids and quests are chores in GM house.
>>387980
>The only combat I might consider decent for that sort of setting is hunting. However, encourage your party to focus more on what to do with what they hunted rather than the combat. Less "How much xp do I get?" and more "What am I going to cook with this? I hope I don't damage the pelt so I can sell it in the next town."
Or you can go to drink into actual bar and on a real hunt.
>>387971
https://www.notimeforflashcards.com/2012/03/25-easy-pretend-play-ideas.html
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No.388014
>>387971
>>387999
What you're really asking is "What is the most boring or "mundane" obstacle I can ask my players to overcome." Because that's basically what all RPGs are about, overcoming obstacles. You need to think up a system that allows for stats to be distributed in a way so that players will be better at certain everyday obstacles than others and bind those together in an over-arching narrative.
Let's say that your players are roommates in a small city. Character A has high dexterity and high patience, but low sociability, character B has high sociability, but low patience and moderate intelligence. They need to pay rent are are saving up to buy a place together.
So character A uses her dexterity and patience to sew homemade blankets or something, and character B uses their sociability to sell them to people at the market. Now they need to balance their budget with the materials they need, rent, food, taxes, etc. All while making rolls to see how well they can persuade the kind old lady to buy a blanket, or how many blankets they can make in a day and how many they'll screw up/how much material is wasted.
If all you want is basically a "comfy with friends simulator" then you'd be better off all just getting together and have a night where you watch anime or some shit though. Or possibly playing an MMO together in the same room. A lot of the "comfy" vibe comes from doing grindy stuff in a warm/inviting environment, the problem with that is that it's basically impossible to do grindy stuff in a tabletop RPG while keeping people interested.
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No.388020
>>387999
I think you want some slice of life in your real life...
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No.388025
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No.388030
>>388025
Ryuutama really does seem to be one of the better examples of a game that's about the journey, not the loot. Too bad it's an imperfect game and the english version is still missing various supplements and splats that were supposed to fix it up a bit.
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No.388048
Golden Sky Stories is the way to go. You can even play as cute girls if you want. But what the fuck is up with the newfags suddenly pretending to be grognards?
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No.388051
>>388036
> I want to stab the stupid son of a bitch who made Ryuutama to death.
Why?
Combat is normal part of Ryuutaama's experience, it simply prefers to stop at "incapacitated/KO/ran away".
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No.388084
Who knew that words like "comfy" and "slice of life" word shitter shatter someone so hard? Either way, Ryuutama seems to be the best balance of player motivated, personal scale, journeying, but not muderhoboing.
Golden Sky Stories also comes to mind as a game that is all about supernatural creatures helping normal people with their mundane problems. It even advertises itself as "heartwarming" which is synonymous with comfy if you ask me.
In both cases, you do have a little guidance/call to action, and less sandbox style play, but you also have the supernatural elements and fantastical themes there to intrigue players. Strange creatures to meet, mystical places to visit, secrets to uncover, rules about the world to learn, and so on. A game where players are normal people doing normal things is like playing House, but the right setting, the right history, and the right hook, and you can make a comfy, non-combative game just as fully engaging as any murderhobo dungeon crawler campaign.
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No.388123
Chuubo's Marvelous Wish Granting Engine was designed for their to be player motivations driving them to do stuff that isn't just killing and looting. With all kinds of examples of things like watching a sunset or doing laundry with a friend. I can't attest to how actually fun or playable the game is, but it is a blast to read.
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No.388174
>>387980
>>387990
>>388014
>>388084
The takeaway I'm seeing amongst all these posts is that it's not what you're not doing that matters, but how you're presenting the things players are doing that can make a certain kind of game type workable. Which is to say, you wouldn't tell your players that you are running a no-fighting, no-killing adventure with trading, but that you are running a game focused on trading, negotiation, and business management, as an example.
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No.388809
A game with simply less combat requires a stronger focus on NPCs, interaction with the environment, and other aspects of the game. Players can, and will, have tons of fun doing the most mundane and stupid shit if they are allowed to. Extended hat shopping scene? Arguing with a vegetable merchant for an hour? Setting up an elaborate streetside performance to busk for coins? Let them do it, and they will.
I think a game with no combat, especially one that focuses on day-to-day life sort of stuff could work, but you'd still need some adventure or some challenge for the players to overcome. A competition or a problem to overcome. They don't need to go and save the world or defeat the dragon, but they need to have something to do. Even Hakumei and Mikochi puts the main characters in situations where they have to use their talents and social connections to overcome a problem. Even the follow up to some of these, where everyone gathers around a big steamy delicious meal and parties their brains out for the night is a thing I and the people I've GM'd for have eagerly indulged in and would probably enjoy even more if the level of detail and care put into describing the scene were heightened further.
Of course, all of that hinges on whether or not you've got a group that is actually interested in playing in a game where power and loot are not the goals. You might be able to make them enjoy a rather mundane scene of eating, drinking, and being merry, but sooner or later, they'll want that basic thrill of killing something. God knows, I've had more than a few cases where players just straight up tell me that want a standard hack-and-slash RPG with no frills or surprises.
>>388123
Chuubo's is a diceless system, isn't it? Got the PDF on hand by any chance?
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No.402769
Erotic RPG with elves? Purpose is to get laid.
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No.402774
>>402769
Ok, can I roll to take her out for a nice cup of tea and get friendly with her. We would then get familiar with each other and soon hold hands. When she ends up blushing furiously from that, I would then pat her head and call her a good girl until she shows her love for me.
Then I want to roll to playfully tickle her ears until it escalates to making loving, gentle sex in the missionary position with plenty of handholding and direct eye contact the entire time until we collapse in each other's arms and cuddle while she expresses joy at possibly having a child.
I then want to take her and settle down and start a nice countryside farm with her and spend our days making a wonderful family.
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No.402775
>>402769
>Not Erotic RPG with wizards
plebian
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No.402776
>>402769
>Getting laid with an elf is the goal
So, what's the challenge, simply finding one?
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No.402785
>>402776
So it's a tabletop version of "Those Who Hunt Elves". I can dig that.
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No.402796
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No.402807
>>402769
Unless the purpose is to get laid in real life, never understood the appeal. And busting the autism needed to actually run a game, and not stick to just roleplay, is about as counter to that goal as possible.
>>387971
Ever run a murder mystery night? Might be the best way to approach it. Clear goal. Social interaction. Skills or abilities outside of combat. The different "heavy roleplay" games that focus more on story telling can probably be geared towards non-combat scenarios. Or go way way to heavy skill systems. And honestly, some mish mash detective agency, that is more animu or scooby doo, that gets hired for different shit all over town is how I would do it. And it works as a one shot that can become a campaign.
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No.402812
>>402776
>So, what's the challenge
Having sex with the elf
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No.402815
>>402812
like elf on the shelf levels of challenge?
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No.402816
>>402812
As in not tearing the elf apart with your dick?
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No.402822
How funny. I was just thinking about reviving this thread, but felt a little awkward bumping a thread from the furthest pages with little to say.
>>402807
>Unless the purpose is to get laid in real life, never understood the appeal.
If we're being generous, the idea is suited for light, semi-romantic ERP at best. It's a thing that some people go for online, but it wouldn't play well at a table.
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No.402825
>>387980
>Travelling is always great.
There is an alternative to traveling: give the players their own "home", then treat the home as the "armor" of the players against the wold/environment and have the campaign revolve around their struggle to keep their home running.
They can be a bunch of soldiers holding a fort at the border, a group of peasants owning a farm or a bunch of hunters sharing a wooden hut during winter.
Their home will have a bunch of neighbors and the players will have to deal with them to secure their home and even if they want to, they cannot kill all their neighbors both because of practical reasons and for social reasons.
They will have to cultivate the region around their home to gain resource, with which they can trade with the travelers that pass by their home.
At the end of a set period you then can narrate, if they manage to have a comfy night at the fire or if they have to stay awake during a raining night, since their roof is leaking etc.
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No.402879
While not exactly devoid of combat and CoC can devolve into murderhoboing, Beyond the Mountains of Madness is a good example of a campaign that is about travel and it's travails and then survival in a highly hostile enviroment.
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No.402905
I really really want to run this. But my group is too serious to play it the way it's meant to played and have fun with it
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No.402916
>>402905
You got a version of that which isn't painfully compressed to the point of unreadability?
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No.403224
Running a play by post harvest Moon-esque game with the wife. System is a barbones Savage worlds. Lots of resource management. Light combat.
We're on 14th say of spring, she's growing potatoes, and has a chicken from hell and a tamed raccoon for animals.
Story involves race of 15% furry monster people that got cursed into being 100% and rage filled. Main character is a rabbit girl who managed to get uncursed and can save others by beating the shit out of them.
So far she's only saved one, and is more focused on building her farm.
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No.403243
>>403224
Not surprised. Players love building their own little enterprises.
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No.407525
>>388809
>A game with simply less combat requires a stronger focus on NPCs, interaction with the environment, and other aspects of the game.
That is (gasp) roleplaying!
> Extended hat shopping scene?
Dun be inzultink. A hat iz a badge of honor! A trophy dot must be plucked from off de head of a vorthy enemy! ;)Z)
That would be curious - to play Deathwatch Sparkwatch with a bunch of ninjas, obsessive-compulsive librarians, mad scientists, spies, cheerfully crazy supersoldiers, gravediggers, slightly rampant AI and assorted quirky monsters, all of whom most of the time are concerned with problems other than combat as such.
> A competition or a problem to overcome. They don't need to go and save the world or defeat the dragon, but they need to have something to do.
And rolling dice gets even more dull without any need to consider tactics.
So unless it's a Magical Realm, it's going to be more challenging for teh GM.
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No.407587
>>407525
>And rolling dice gets even more dull without any need to consider tactics.
Combat-focused games give players a single option: Win, or else. That's why you end up with tactical murderhobos. It also puts players in the mindset of trying to control risk through min-maxing and aggressive strategy. It's not exactly exciting, if you ask me, because it's just a matter of constantly rolling the same attack checks over and over again, with the bonus rarely fluctuating and no severe penalty for missing a swing.
I suppose issues like that are why Apocalypse/Dungeon World games have become so popular over the last few years. It allows GMs to force players into disadvantageous positions, and there's always a chance that negative consequences can accompany any roll. Makes players want to roll less but also take more risks, at least in theory. Not every group will gel with that kind of thinking.
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No.407796
>>388020
Doesn't everyone?
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No.408098
One of the first hurdles to overcome is shaking loose the erroneous notion that a lot of what you do when playing a standard fantasy adventure game is exciting and amazing. Even when combat is involved, you're sometimes looking at hours of table time to resolve about 30 seconds of in-game action. Even the notion that there's some kind of risk or threat to the player characters is often pretty minor, as most games tend to be quite generous when it comes to healing and recovery, so death or any meaningful kind of loss is rarely a problem unless you go out of your way to dial up the lethality.
When you're not in combat, most games are about travel, exploration, interacting with NPCs, investigating, walking around town, camping, shopping, hanging out at taverns, gambling, drinking, and more often than not, trying to start up some kind of small business. It's really no stretch, whatsoever, to turn that into a 100% non-combat game. Systems like Fantasy Craft have several classes that are all about social maneuvering and craftsmanship which would be really get to shine and offer a different style of play in a game like that.
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No.421669
Rogue Trader has a lot of Endeavours with minimum of combat encounters, and even that only because everything is too grimdark to avoid them altogether. Trade, contraband (again, if you need to fight, you fucked up), salvage, colonization (if there's too much fighting to be done, you chose the place poorly, try to avoid this), missionary work...
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No.421709
>>387971
My guy being honest, I just run D&D but make social encounters happen like combat. I make every intimidate, deception, perception, performance, sleight of hand, stealth, etc. one of your forms of attack or action in the social "combat."
Party face usually deals the most 'morale' damage but by making it turn based, and giving everyone initiative, I can just grab a raised hand after each of our turns, assuming most of the time people stay quiet - but it does give interrupt potential and allows players to sneak up behind, or do some magic, pick a pocket, or throw a bottle and make it a real fight.
Use charisma as a 'morale' damage modifier where the more damage they take, the closer they are to caving to your players' demands, unless the target disengages from conversation or gets some help from a suspicious friend.
When you roll initiative, roll for random passersby as well, in case you want that to factor in, and have a roll on if someone drops in, eavesdrops, etc.
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No.421774
>>421709
Seems like a different kind of combat, or a different coat of paint on combat, instead of non-combat.
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No.421775
The reason why combat is fun is that it's involved and players can direct the outcome as the situation escalates. They can make tactical decisions to turn things in their favor or to escape with the least losses possible. I could see an exploration game being that involved, whether the setting was scaling Mt. Everest or piloting your spacecraft through a nebulae. Maybe even a game where the players must escape from an enemy and hide, using skills to discover the best hiding spots and remain unnoticed. Note I said involved, not complex. Things don't need to be D&D levels but rolling a die and mustering whatever skill bonuses you can makes a player feel like they have more control and therefore more fun. You might get inspiration from an MLP fan-mod for Savage Worlds which directly forbids violence or players get no experience for the session. I think OP's disdain for combat sounds like arthouse faggotry, even Spice and Wolf had violence and Kraft Lawrence was smart enough to carry a knife to protect his shit.
>>421774
I'm not sure how many dice rolls are too much for your idea to avoid being combatesque. You'd probably enjoy freeform erp.
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No.421776
>>421775
>I'm not sure how many dice rolls are too much for your idea to avoid being combatesque. You'd probably enjoy freeform erp.
It's not about dice rolls, but about the idea of replacing physical combat with HP and strength mods, with social combat with Morale and Charisma mods. It's a different flavor of the same thing, except you're not killing your opponent. Combat is combat, and the thread is about non-combat.
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No.422570
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No.422578
>>422570
Done right, that's full of combat.
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No.422581
>>422570
>>422570
Running a game based on a mix of Dungeon Meshi and Battle Chef Brigade would be great.
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No.422665
>>422570
>>422578
>>422581
A cooking competition could be really fun when you break it down into all the necessary steps. Sourcing ingredients by going to the market and cutting deals with merchants and butchers. Going out into the wilderness to find wild plants and herbs. Fishing, trapping, tracking, hunting. There's also the possibility of adding in personal gardens and farms where players are invested in the creation of ingredients.
None of this is even predicated on the standard ideas of combat, like going out and killing monsters for XP and loot.
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