/tg/ - Traditional Games

>>380262

1. Technically, D&D. But if one defines OSRs as "modern games that try to emulate the old feel", then Castles & Crusaders.

2. Way I see it, OSRs strike a good blance between solid rules and openness to "ah, just invent the shit on the fly". I prefer my games to be well defined (I mean "their mechanical aspect") so I have to care only about little tweaking and small adjustments that suit my group. And that's what OSRs are.

3. Yes, and no - it's not translated to English. For all it's worth it's something between Old School Hack and Beyond the Wall kind of game with a few neat solutions of mine.

How come people hate 2e so much? It seems to just be 1e but with lots of options.

>>380262

>1

Labyrinth Lords

>2

I like dungeon crawls, but also the potential for high level PCs to become major political players

>3

I mostly have dungeons and some fairly vanilla content.

>>380427

It's bland and is the edition where AD&D started to go to shit because Williams forced out Gygax. 1e DMG is the best D&D book ever published while I don't think I've ever needed or wanted to look through the 2e one.

I came late into TSR, so I'm fine with 2E. It's pretty interchangeable with 1E with some slight tinkering, which is good by me.

Also, I see little love regarding For Gold & Glory. It looks like it's expanding into its own 2E inspired thing. The base book is unashamedly a core reprint package though. But, it's at a good price.

>>380431

>>380428

>bland and skub

How so? Compared to 1st of course.

>>380310

I'd really love to get some opinions on this. Is it at least possible to understand what I was going for?

>>380310

The attack bonuses seem decent enough.

Not too sure how I feel about the armor, would need to look into that more.

Dual weild seems a tad fiddly

Not keen on the minor item/side arm encumberance rules.

The fighter boon to retainers seems okay, the other classes not too much.

The skills are crappy. Healing is meant to be slow without advanced tech/magic and bushcraft is fine as is.

>>380458

While I will definitely agree with you that the 1st ed books had more flavour I still think some of the things we got in 2nd ed are clear improvements, mage schools and clerical spheres for example.

>>380901

Seems fine.

>>380262

finally, been waiting forever for OSRG to come to 8chan.

>>381490

I like the pixel design.

>>381501

Thanks, it's the old Gold Box Pool of Radiance font.

First of all, I have to admit that 3.5e was te first edition I played and that my opinion might be different of the old editions, if I didn't look through the lens of OSR.

The thing I like about OSR and the old editions is that they just feel so much more raw and original. Not everything about them is perfect but there is such a certain rough beauty about them. The late ones just feel more like they are made to sell, less like they are written by those passionate about their hobby. They feel like an old, sturdy wooden table while the new ones feel like they are made from plywood. Shiny but cheap and soulless.

Paging through 5e, I can just see some suits at a business meeting snapping their fingers and going "Yes! This is how we'll get the market." instead of people that wrote down the stuff they like to use for their hobby.

>>381791

I forgot to mention this but the thing that actually brought this to my mind was movies. You just don't get those more experimental kind of things in mainstream these days.

>>380427

I didn't hate it, but maybe that's because we mostly just played with the main books (PHB, DMG, various monster compendiums). They sure did make a ton of dodgy supplements for it though.

>>381912

>/pol/

I really don't get what's /pol/ about that post.

>>381830

>>381952

>english dub

I didn't even know that existed. You are missing out if you don't listen to Kinskis mad ravings.

>>381912

Since when was being a history buff /pol/, Paladins? /j/ and /monster/ have more claims to the Templar and Paladindus.

>>380940

This sounds interesting.

>>382412

What are you asking about exactly?

A Ravenloft-like game (setting-wise), or Ravenloft-like adventure scenario?

Does anybody have a table for the likelihood of the party getting robbed?

>>382979

Ravenloft-like adventure scenario. I'm trying to get inspiration for a Gothic Horror adventure module and I've read most of the Ravenloft ones already, just wanting to read up on more.

>>382985

> Ravenloft-like adventure scenario

Hmmmmmm...

- Fortress of Fear (T&T)

- The Cursed Chateau (universal OSR)

- Red & Pleasant Land + Maze of Blue Meduza (universal OSR)

- The Lost Temple of Forgotten Evil (universal OSR + DnD 5th)

Also, make sure to check works by Gabor Lux. I can't point the finger on the exact thing, but I always have the feeling there's something gothic about plenty of his material.

Yeah, look at these and drop a hint whether they are any relevant to your interests.

>>382986

Thanks! I'll check these out after I wake up in the morning.

>>382990

Godspeed!

>>382990

to forewarn you, Maze of the blue medusa is basically useless if you use the whole thing, its a really jumbled and shitty megadungeon. Taking parts from it works wonders though.

>>383131

Yes, actually and very easily as well. Pretty much any OSR system can replicate that kind of feel very easily. The entire idea behind OSR gaming is simplicity and back to basics fun, which means bringing back the "add the cool shit you like" mentality.

>joining this fringe movement

Are we a fringe movement? I thought most of us were just fat fucks who didn't want to buy new rulebooks because that's not as fun as settings or people who wanted to teach their kids/young nephews roleplaying.

>>383140

Pretty sure theres a fan made zelda game you could play.

>>383141

No, but I don't want Zelda, those illustrations are only illustrative.

>>383145

Whats wrong with zelda?

The old zelda games were made to evoke the same feeling their art do though.

>>383147

Well I was figuring the zelda rpg would also evoke the same feeling as the art. I haven't played it though so I don't know for sure.

>>383149

The feeling is evoked in these games, if you want to try them:

>The Legend of Zelda (NES)

>The Legend of Zelda - Adventure of Link (NES)

>The Legend of Zelda - A Link to the Past (SNES)

>The Legend of Zelda - Link's Awakening DX (GBC)

>The Legend of Zelda - Oracle of Ages (GBC)

>The Legend of Zelda - Oracle of Seasons (GBC)

I don't recommend the NES ones, specially because you haven't played a Zelda before. All the others are very good, they are games everyone should have played.

>>383140

>according to the ENWorld Hot Games tracker

you might as well get your statistics by throwing knucklebones at the wall, they'd be equally accurate. the ENWorld forum doesn't know a goddamn thing about anything other than what people on ENWorld like.

>>383153

Fuck, I'll have to post some music, at least one from each game.

>>383153

I was specifically talking about the zelda homebrew tabletop rpg. Ive played the video games. I would also add wind waker and breath of the wild to that list.

>>383155

Seasons.

>>383156

>TWW

>BotW

They don't have the old feeling, that one feeling from the illustrations.

>>383157

AlttP.

>>383157

The feeling has more to do with scope than just oldness.

>>383158

AoL.

>>383159

Oh yes, the feeling is closely related with a vast world and little people in it, giant places, wilderness, survival, magic creatures, etc

>>383160

The feeling is old, but oldness is not part of it.

>>383161

I don't think you know how to describe what you're feeling.

>>383161

TLoZ.

>>383159

But I still don't think Breath of the Wild nails it, because it has a modern feeling to it as well. So, it's a mixed bag.

>>383163

How do you want it described?

>>383165

Clearly and concisely.

>>383167

>the dead walk the city streets at nigh

There wouldn't even be cities.

Have you guys ever watched the Dungeons & Dragons cartoon? That stuff is filled with the "feeling".

Listen to music related (it would be best if you watched it, but the video is not on youtube).

>>383169

I've watched the cartoon, I've watched Lodoss, etc. All of it. Read the actual PDF and you'll understand what I mean. It's only like 11 pages and it's an interesting read, while also important for understanding the concept of the 'implied setting' your rule-set brings.

If you want to emulate the feeling, take an OD&D base, adjust the random monster tables to adjust frequency, have your fluff describe monsters as on the larger scale rather than small (and possibly adjust HD from d6 to d3+3), and that should handle the brunt of it. For the "Japanese" feel you'll probably want Gygax's latter house-rule to start off at Level 3, or use a variant Arduin HP scheme that gives everyone a higher pool at the beginning and reduces progression over time (this works well to emulate something like Lodoss, where you see a more linear advancement). You could also look into the RC, which is a complete set, and had a pretty big impact on inspiring Japanese FRP development (though keep in mind the RC is much more convoluted - it's easily around 20 times as many words as OD&D).

This is important:

https://campaignwiki.org/wiki/LinksToWisdom/

>the feeling

There has to be a word for it or a way to sum it up in a couple words.

Like the feeling of romantic adventure or something.

>>383171

Thank you very much, great Anon.

I'll take it to heart.

>>383173

>>383178

There are other unclassified feelings, specially from the late 90s and early 2000s.

For instance, a series that invoke a very nice feeling is Golden Sun - what is the name of the feeling? There are other games that share it - "Early 21st Century Adventure"? Who knows - it clearly lost the "fantastical" part of the stuff, it lost the "fantasy" label and are "adventures".

Then you have a plethora of PS1 games, such as Shadow of the Colossus, Prince of Persia, Wild Arms.

The list goes on.

>>383183

If this was QTDDTOT, then I'd recommend it in a heartbeat. But since the question was about emulating a specific type of genre using games in this sub-genre, there was no reason to bring up a game that belongs to another sub-genre.

There's a lot of argument over what is and isn't OSR, but I would consider Ryuutama to be a very severe stretch. The major focus of the game is to construct together a collaborative narrative, with an emphasis on 'the desired story' as reflect in your elected color; in contrast, the general sentiment in the OSR is that the GM never steps in with a narrative, and instead allow any stories to develop naturally (note that some people are even outright hostile to having NPC antagonists, though there's a lot of flexibility). You could probably force the same style of game, but then you're doing exactly what you're saying - trying to force a system to serve a role, when there are others actually designed for it. From a mechanical standpoint, Ryuutama also lacks direct compatibility with TSR-era/OSR content, which is probably the most damning point for its exclusion. That doesn't make it a bad system - it's good at what it does - but it's a system for discussing in another thread. Unless, of course, the discussion involves cribbing mechanics.

>>383227

OSR doesn't necessarily need to be just dungeon-delving, that's just the classic for low-level. You can even make trade the emphasis of a game. The Ultraviolet Grasslands is a good example of this - it takes the point-crawl format and transitions it to surface play, with the points of interest involving mercantile stops as part of the setting. The thing that makes it definitely OSR, though, is the emphasis on accumulating treasure for the purpose of advancement (there's a nifty rule in there which I've adopted about defacing monuments to extract parts of their value; sure, you can't move that 10000lb priceless stone statue out of the dungeon, but you can sure as hell carve those little gems out of its eyes for a couple hundred GP).

That said, while UVG lends itself toward the murder-caravan, Ryuutama lends itself to considerably less murder. I mean, yeah, you don't need to be a murder-caravan, but when someone hands you an alien transmutation rifle that turns brains into pigeons, you're going to want to turn someone's brain into a pigeon.

>>383236

Alright, sure. I agree with that.

This still doesn't make Ryuutama OSR, which is the main point I was trying to make.

>>383241

>I'm not sure why to discuss OSR-factor of Ryuutama

Mainly because you posted in the OSR thread and also added

>(although I've been hearing that Ryuutama "kind of" "might be" considered "partially" OSR)

>>383247

>>383178

The term you might be looking for, is "Sturm und Drang" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturm_und_Drang

>>383351

I don't see how. He wasn't really asking for a shitty knockoff of Conan sword and sorcery setting with a furry-tier fandom. If he was, people would have recommended ACK already.

>>383355

This. Fuck Gor

>>383366

I agree, fellow channer, we all should indeed financially support this game.

>>383366

Gor is utter garbage and you are too if you're trying to push it. It's like FATAL - absolutely ridiculous and over the top sexualized fantasy with bad pacing and terrible writing. Here is Houseplants of Gor, a knock off that is like 100% how the typical "character interaction" goes like in Gor

http://www.rdrop.com/~wyvern/data/houseplants.html

>>383372

Fuck off Zak, you're not welcome here either.

>>383372

Sex is fine but making it the end-all-be-all is just bad writing.

>>383376

I agree with GORean novels not being the absolute pinnacle of both erotic writing and writing in general, but heck, the game isn't half that bad: D6 is a solid ruleset, entirely within the realm of Old School. The setting is suitable for heroic fantasy along the lines of Corben's DEN, and the amount of eroticism is a question of personal agreement for every group.

As for the original comment - the guy asked for a game with a style similar to classic Zelda games. Skip or at least reduce the amount of fucking if it stings your eyes (I'm not sure why it should), and Gor doesn't seem that bad of a choice, I think.

>>383375

> Everyone I dislike is Zak Sabbath.

You're in luck: I'm not him, Anon. Zak would eat you alive and shit out an adventure scenario far more interesting than your whole existence. The book would probably get a few awards for being "original" and "full of ideas".

On second thought, you're perhaps not as lucky as one might think...

>>383379

I don't think you know what OSR is so I'll explain - it's games that are meant to emulate classic D&D (OD&D, Basic, B/X, BECMI, RC, AD&D 1e and early AD&D 2e), not "low fantasy" schlock like Gor.

And Zak is a hack who should just fuck right off.

>>383396

> There also isn't a universally accepted definition of pornography, and yet our legal system

Then it's good we're not discussing this in court and the outcome doesn't rely getting a sentence, I suppose, eh?

> If multiple people look at a system and say "that isn't OSR you stupid faggot" then it's pretty damning evidence that you're a retard.

Multiple people are looking at Earth and say it's flat. I know it might come as shock to you, but in real world it's pretty much granted, that plenty of people may be wrong. There's no such thing as "truth by volume", oh simple one.

> Then again, looking at your this post and your last ones, it's clear that you don't actually know shit about what you're talking about.

I'd say that you're void of serious, substantial arguments and you're attempting to go old "I can't find a good counterproof, therefore yooor stoooppid", aka old, primitive "attack a person, not an argument". Which is not a "win" condition, Anon.

> I'm sure they'd appreciate the extra company.

You seem very sure about how people are there nowadays. You certainly spend a lot of time there, right?

>>383494

> You seem to misunderstand something. There's no counter-point to be made because you have never actually made a point.

YOU seem to misunderstand something. Your whole logic is based on a definition that does not exist. No wonder, we're living in a Fortean reality where it's easy to tell the difference between, say, *.World based mechanics, and AD&D. However, there are plenty of games that draw more or less inspiration from (and therefore stay true to) both opposites, what makes the process of labeling them difficult if not impossible. It's practically Sorites Paradox, where the only way to tell the difference between one and the other is to arbitrarily define an artificial and questionable border between both.

So, no. It's not that I don't make the point. My point is that you have none. It's like in "Pirates of Carribean" movie, where they discuss "Pirate's code". Nothing more, nothing less.

> On the other hand, your 'arguments' consist entirely of 'no u' and 'hurr durr you're wrong and so is everyone else because I feel this way'.

Anon, I'm a reasonable man, but I don't simply take "this is how I think it is, obey" for an argument. You have to try harder to convince me, if you absolutely have to, but it's gonna be neither short nor easy process. After all, we are, at least in theory, RPGamers, and it's supposed to imply certain mental qualities. Also, if you decide to resort to such a primitive form of discussion as throwing insults, or God forbids, argument from the position of an authority (respect is earned, not granted)... Well, you're gonna get what you deserve.

Which is: a treatment kids in kindergarten deserve.

> But until you actually justify yourself, or construct an argument, any further discussion is impossible.

You seem to think it's any important what we're doing here. Justify yourself, construct an argument... Why? It's a lightweight discussion in the godforgotten province of the Net. Don't act like someone's life depends on the outcome. Take a deep breath, think about panda bears, take a short walk... If that changes nothing, reconsider your online existence. It might be you value it too much.

Nice, thread is kill.

Another one that faggot manages to kill.

>>383514

I came here to talk about OSR games, not to argue about what is or isn't an OSR game. Jesus christ, some people are insufferable.

What are your thoughts on changing all d20s to 3d6s? It would make rolls to hit more regular and greatly reduce the chance to roll a critical success or failure (supposing that we change those from rolling a natural 1 or natural 20 to be rolling snake eyes or boxcars, i.e. a natural 3 or a natural 18). Has anyone ever tried this in their games? And is there any reason that the d20 was chosen by Gygax to use for rolling to hit?

>>383518

Then talk about them, but drop the name first. Namefagging is unnecessary.

>>383570

>And is there any reason that the d20 was chosen by Gygax to use for rolling to hit?

For the exact opposite reason of why people advocate for multiple die - to create a liner distribution. Gygax talks a little about curves and distribution in the 1E DMG - he wanted there to be one for ability scores, but not for attack. It wasn't just a whim, either - making use of the d20 was important enough to justify, in the minds of Gygax and Arneson, making purchases which included the whole set of "novelty die" (d4, d8, d12, etc.) and reworking in-game mechanics to use them (rather than just d6 and d20) because of that.

OD&D also offers the Chainmail system as a basis, which is 2d6 based. I've seen some attempts to translate it over, but it gets really wonky when working with Armor Class. Somewhat more playable is the system used in Dragons at Dawn, which is based off of the earliest Arneson games, and uses a 2d6 system for combat and saving throws, and handles armor as a potential deflector with its own 2d6 chance. However, it's worth noting that Arneson himself switched away from this Chainmail-esque pattern; if I recall, the d20-based system that we see was based off of another of his games, which either involves naval or tank warfare.

In practice, 2d6 can presumably work. 3d6 I don't think anyone has ever worked with, aside from in games like GURPS that natively use it - and if you're going to do that, you might as well just use GURPS, since it's a functional system. The main issue comes down to numbers, and from that, compatibility - If you revise the system to a different core mechanic, you're isolating it.

For the record, 3d6 doesn't greatly reduce the chance of natural minimum/maximum, it drops it off the board - from 1/20 to 1/216, or from about a 5% chance to 0.5% percent. If you consider how rare combat is meant to be in OSR-style play, you're looking at maybe one critical every couple of sessions. If you wanted to be mechanically interesting, you'd do something inspired off of the Critical Die of Chivalry & Sorcery - If you roll double 1's or double 6's, it's a critical; the third die, ranging from 1 to 6, indicates severity. Or, alternatively, you could have 2+1 die, and always have two die represent something, while the third gives severity. But for combat, at least, you already have the damage die for exactly that purpose.

>>383518

>Stop namefagging

Thanks, Chrow.

>>383676

I wish to Mamoru this... I want to protect this (rare) smile.

>>383676

>>383766

>Swedish lesbian

Yeah, have fun with that.

>>383646

No, it's completely out of character.

So lets say theres a hidden door in a room. Do you not mention it at all and let your players tell you theyre looking for hidden passages or do you subtly hint that its there? And if so how do you hint at it?

>>383852

Don't mention it unless the players are either looking for it or if an elf happens to notice it.

For the elf, say that something about the room feels off to them.

>>383852

I like to hint at it with things seeming slightly out of place. A brick wall in a rough-hewn cave. Unusual features of a building ("why doesnt that wall have any windows?"). A section of wall where machinery conspicuously enters but does not visibly leave. Etc.

These don't indicate a hidden door necessarily, but do indicate hidden shit in general - which is good enough for me. Even if they don't know where the door is, they know hidden passages or rooms exist.

>>383852

The elf can sense when something's wrong. No automatic detection - I set the condition for all my secret doors. Usually, I try to design things in such a way that, if you were mapping, you could notice something was off. Or just have a strange layout.

Most of my players get it, but I have one retard who still says shit like "I search for secret doors", to which I must always respond "Okay - how?"

>>383846

What do you mean?

>>383863

It doesn't produce the feeling and it's very subpar, it's at best deviantart-tier or tumblr-tier.

So, it doesn't have anything to do with the previous conversations - having Zelda there doesn't mean jack shit.

>>383868

DCC is in an odd spot. There's a lot of love for it in the OSR, but at the same time, it has a couple of glaring issues. It's fundamentally closer to 3E on a mechanical level, and even with its 0-Level memes, characters past that point rapidly become much hardier. The game puts a much lower emphasis on resource management than most of the OSR, as well. Old modules can be converted to DCC, but it takes considerably more effort to do so than with, say, LL or LotFP.

On top of that, there's a few major differences of tone in the magic system. In most old-school games, magic is reliable - You know a spell, you know what happens when you cast it. Not so in DCC - You could grow a donkey from your penis at the flip of a coin. There's also the "weird dice", which some people like, and others find pointless.

Really:

>It fits our group pretty well in all honesty

This is all that matters. There's a lot of other systems out there, but it all boils down to what your table needs. DCC is a game where a bunch of peasants run through a dungeon to get slaughtered, and then the tough ones survive to go into more dungeons, and sometimes tentacles pop out of places they shouldn't. For my part, it's not my favorite system, but it is popular, and it does have its niche. If you like it, use it.

>>380262

1. Labyrinth Lord (Though I started roleplaying with AD&D)

2. Simplicity of rulings and the amount of content that's out there, plus the ease of homebrewing.

3. I have a ton of homebrew content. Not just for OSR but for pretty much every system I DM. Personally for me homebrewing is one of the main appeals of this sort of hobby and OSR very much caters to that. But the vast majority of my stuff is saved on physical notebooks and cards. If I get off my lazy ass unlikely maybe I'll translate some of it to a cheapo pdf or something. Most of it isn't amazing or groundbreaking though so I don't think it'd be worth it.

Right now my OSR of choice is Basic Fantasy Roleplaying. It's compatible with pretty much everything I need it to be compatible with and it has a lot of content. Plus it's a free download so I can shove it down the throats of new players without too much issue. Besides that Lamentations of the Flame Princess is one of my favorites for many of the above reasons. And if it counts Index Card RPG is up there as well.

>>383868

What >>383876 said. If it works for you and your group and all of you are having fun then keep on keeping on. If you want some stuff to scavenge and steal from check out all of the old 2nd ed stuff and content made for the rest of the games mentioned in this thread. Chances are you'll find something that'll fit your fancy. If you want something more specific go look at Dark Sun it's good shit.

>>383884

>Plus it's a free download so I can shove it down the throats of new players without too much issue.

I use my personal home-brew system PDF explicitly so I can pass it to players without worrying about legalities, or needing to include a second house rule document.

>>383909

That sounds like a great idea. I should definitely do something similar. It'll at least save a bunch of time down the road the next time I need to teach new players.

Has anyone here played Chris Perkins AD&D 3e? It looks like it's 1e with just a few minor tweaks and modifications in places.

>>380940

Hot shit anon, this is actually really nice and actually seems right up my alley as far as the intersection of reality and fantasy goes for me. Maybe dust off some M.R James stories and see if I can adapt them into one offs.

Anyone here want to tell me how they can expect the osr community to do anything but stagnate when every old ass grognar hoards 4 or 5 copies of players handbooks and snatch up any affordable ones they find?

Oi, /tg/, what are your favorite maps/dungeons/modules for OSR? Maybe you have some nice homemade ones? I'll have to go internetless for quite some time, and I want to stock up on cool shit to play meanwhile. Give me your best.

>>386164

That's part of the reason retroclones exist. You don't need a B/X or 1E if you can just pick up LL, and S&W covers ODnD for most respects. And if you don't want to do retroclones, PDFs for TSR games are quite easy to find for free, and WotC has released almost all of the pre-2E books as PDFs on DTR, and even as physical books in some cases. Though I wouldn't advocate paying any company for something it didn't create, least of all WotC.

I definitely agree with you, though, that collectors are obnoxious. TSR books are pretty easy to find on eBay, but if you want more obscure game systems, it's almost impossible. And none of the fags who buy this shit are ever going to risk damaging their copies to make scans - There's one blog by a collectorfag who goes on about how much he hates the fact that people only pay attention to DnD instead of all of these great systems he has, while giving no realistic way to actually play the damn things.

>>386230

I know theres retro clones but its hard enough to get people to play older editions of dnd let alone a game no one has heard of.

>>386230

Speaking of retroclones can anyone tell me if basic fantasy roleplaying game is any good and what the difference between the editions is?

>>386272

>can anyone tell me if basic fantasy roleplaying game is any good

It's probably my favorite of the Retro-clones currently available. Compatible with pretty much anything you may need or want it to be compatible with. It has pretty decent support and the rules are clear, simple, and straight to the point. You can also download the books for free on their website so there's no reason why you can't just check it out yourself in your free time. Not so sure about what the differences between the editions are since I started with the newest edition myself, so I can't help you too much there.

>>386266

If you're dealing with friends in person: Just say "Hey, we're going to play D&D". Help them through character creation and such. Players don't read the rules anyways most of the time, they just need to know how to play, and actually playing is best for that. If you're dealing with people online, then it's even simpler - There's always people in the same position of trying to find players. You just need to be proactive. Even if there's only 50 people looking to play a given OSR game, you only need around 5 to run it.

>>386272

It's what it says - Basic Fantasy Roleplaying.

Games in the OSR break down in two ways, for the most part. The first category is straight retroclones. The second is more specialized systems. BFRPG technically meets the second category, but it's specialization is trying to do everything. It's the GURPS of the OSR. That said, it's a function system, and more importantly, has one of the more accurate representations of ship cargo capacity of any retro-game.

Has anyone here bought Gardens of Ynn? If so is it any good?

>>386502

What is it?

>>386502

It's pretty good in the fact that it has a bunch of monsters and a great amount of charts for generating locations and events. There isn't any plot, villains, or pre-written encounters to it though. Overall it's great as another toolbox that you can steal from and use to generate campaigns but if you're looking for a Point A to Point B adventure you'll be sorely disappointed. 3 bucks for the PDF isn't too bad of a price point for what you get with it but you could always just pirate it.

>>388002

> only complaint was that most of the players didn't care for the Zocchi dice

Does anyone?

>>383379

>You're in luck: I'm not him, Anon. Zak would eat you alive and shit out an adventure scenario far more interesting than your whole existence.

«…also, he's handsome»? 🤡

>>388023

>Jew

>handsome

Anon, there's a certain border even hardcore homos wouldn't dare to cross.

>>388375

Not that I can find sadly

>>388461

Thats disappointing. Ive heard that Lejendary Adventures was actually pretty good and had a slightly more od&d feel than the game gary made before it.

>>388790

Funny, just passing through figuring I'd check if there's anything for DCC on /tg/ and voila!

Thanks!

Lejendary Adventure Essential Bestiary was slightly too large:

ss file/op97w0

>>380262

>1.

1st ed./2nd ed AD&D, though OSRIC was my first OSR game. I prefer DCC and FG&G nowadays.

>2.

It feels more freeform. Rules tend to be where they need and they're usually easy enough to excise or edit.

>3.

I used to homebrew, was never really that good at it. If I can reanimate old hard drives, I have some monsters in 2e stat block format. A lot of them were balls retarded though. I could try to recreate some planescape and ravenloft monsters from memory, maybe.

Speaking of FG&G, anyone check out any of the stuff beyond the main book? The entry prices are cheap enough, though I wish Humanoids and Undead was available in digital. As for homebrew, it wouldn't be too much different than regular 2E. So, that's no big deal.

>>390142

I don't doubt that Lejendary Adventure is a good game, but just trying to read it feels so bad. Gary was so arid of WotC dropping a lawsuit on him that he changed universal basic TTRPG jargon. Like a 12 year old dry humping a thesaurus so his kewl homebrew will feel new and interesting.

D&D 3.5 was the first I ever played, and it brings back some good memories of greasy dungeon crawls.

Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay provided the grit that I felt my D&D experiences lacked, but at the cost of less dungeon exploration.

>>391075

Neither of those are OSRs though.

>>391113

WFRP is old as shit what are you talking about.

>>391177

WFRP is old-school, not OSR. OSR specifically refers to content from the renaissance, and sometimes to a few baskets of TSR material and TSR derivatives from the time period. AD&D is old-school, OSRIC is OSR. In general, OSR specifically deals with TSR D&D based systems, and not all old-school games - Traveler, for instance, is not OSR, but is an old-school game.

That's why you see other terms like "DIY D&D" and other crap get thrown around, or "TSR/OSR". There's no set in stone rules, but there are generally accepted boundaries.

1) My first foray into OSR games was Dark Dungeons, which many laud to be the best clone based on the best edition, which is supposedly BECMI RC. I did recently pick up a copy of the RC as well from DriveThruStuff, as WotC is now selling both Print on Demand and digital copies

2) As I got into tabletop long after 3e came around, it's partially the retro feeling as well as the structure to the rules that feel more natural with post-3e.

3) I wish.

>>380427

I came from 2E, and I think it's the best edition tbqh.

The rules system was easy to learn and got out of the way while you had fun. To differentiate between your cookie cutter classes you had to actually role play, which made for memorable characters and stories.

I switched to 3e with everybody else, and didn't realise what I was missing until I went back to the rulebooks years later and remembered the awesome Times we used to have playing it.

>>380427

>lots of options.

That's why people hate it.

What hex mapping programs are good and free? Or does anyone have a link to a non free one?

>>394600

I'll never understand this. Theres nothing stopping people from just playing the core game. I mean shit, theres tons of stuff for each edition of dnd from dragon magazine. Does that mean every edition has to many options?

So I am running UR counterburn in standard. I haven't had opportunity to play it at FNM because of work.

Everybody says that XMage players are terrible, and I am not inclined to disagree. I usually play on the .de server, but having tested the deck against my buddies I can say it will consistently piss off other players.

Will post a decklist later.

>>394748

Fuck. Wrong thread. Please send kill.

>>394749

Too late. You have to post something OSR related now.

>>394751

Damn... I though this general was dead.... :-)

Nice to see it's still kickin' it old school.

Well.... Sort of at least.... :-)

>>394751

Well I just got my hands on a 2nd ed dnd dm's. I want to run a gritty, grimy, grungeon grinder run. I only have like 2 people that would join in irl and don't have the players handbook

Living in a town with only 2 tiny gameshops and a whole lot of idiocy from all the bubbas and super dykes and playing via internet is annoying as shit. Any suggestions?

>>395523

Different anon, but: Depends.

If it's an ACKS like system (starting at 0) then it's not so bad - hell, I love the throw system, it's easy to use and teach. But the d20-style system is extremely inefficient and leads to the bloating of numbers. THAC0 is a "meh"-tier system but effective - Target 20 is better in every way, and the absolute best system if you're sticking to a low-level range with regular progression; That said, the ACKS throw system does better for irregular progression, and is better for the "character focused" style.

>>395530

Run a game online.

>>395539

Yeah I did a quick google and found similar sentiments. I started out with Basic Fantasy RPG and I've been gradually molding/adding rules over the course of the campaign as I've read into more OSR stuff.

So I'm going to convert to an ACKS style throw system and see how we go. I think it will be an improvement.

>>395530

>>395539

I agree with this anon, run a game online. It is a far more superior experience to play with people you like online as opposed to people you don't like in person.

On the flip-side, running a game with two players is fine too.

>>395539

>But the d20-style system is extremely inefficient and leads to the bloating of numbers.

That's only a problem if you let the numbers bloat, as is often the case in games with a lot of magical items and Attribute increases. I don't see a problem with it if there's a limit on how high the AC can get.

>>395967

>I don't see a problem with it if there's a limit on how high the AC can get.

This is the reason why I have an unspoken rule in my games to not have AC go above 20 (or its equivalent) because once it gets to that point it becomes an arms race. Sure, superheroic games are fun once in awhile but when every game becomes like this and PC's are nigh unkillable and world ending threats happen every week just to give them a minor challenge then I think we have a problem.

>>395967

Let me point you to the original Deities & Demigods (Supp IV), where Gygax published a book under the premise of "I keep hearing a lot of bullshit, so these are the ultimate caps that shouldn't be passed over because these are gods". Do you know what happened? People turned their games into Dies Iraes and made that into a new monster book. Putting hard limits didn't improve things, it made them worse.

On the other hand, the d20 system with its focus on build creation actively encourages you to stack things up as much as possible. That's how you get the Immortals Handbook. You can push the blame entirely on the players if you like, because "well I don't do that", but it's a simple matter that people will take the rule-set they're given.

Rather than make an inferior system work, use a system that's better designed to start with. We don't use matrices anymore because they're inefficient at the table. We don't need to use the d20 system - and hell, never should have - when we've got better alternatives. Even the fags at WotC for the most part abandoned the damn thing, which should be telling enough.

>>395979

>builds

Wrong thread for that.

>>394729

bump for my hexmapping question. Help please.

>>396059

Read this article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D20_System

Then read that post again very carefully in context and reflect on being a retard.

>>396290

Yeah. I'm saying the "D20 system", as in the stuff based on 3E, has nothing to do with OSR. Go complain about your period somewhere else.

>>396312

>a frequently used system in OSR games

3E based d20, with it's feats and Ability Scores that you get to increase every few levels, is frequently used for OSR? I don't think so.

>>396292

Look at the context you illiterate nigger.

>>396342

The d20 system, that is the system of rolling a d20 and adding modifiers to beat a DC, which does not necessarily imply the use of feats and ability score bloat, has been used in three of the OSR games I've played. That's D&D 5e, BFRPG, and DCC.

>>396380

5e isn't OSR.

>>396387

Not him but it's not, it's a blending of 3e and 4e with some indie bullshit tacked on like advantage/disadvantage. Also it overpowers the half-elves and shit.

>>396402

Yeah nah, my problem was the disregard for everything else in the post, and in previous posts, not with that claim.

>>396380

>which does not necessarily imply the use of feats and ability score bloat

Id say it does imply it because it specifically mentions skills and abilities in the mechanics.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/D20_System

Also 5e isnt osr.

>>396591

You would be my hero if you scanned it. I cant find it anywhere and copies on ebay or anywhere are all over 100 bucks.

I guess I'll never get my scan

>>397564

Sorry, anon, just some things will never come to be I think like how I want the notes and details of Castle Greyhawk and the original Blackmoor notes but never will...

>>397755

Well i think gary said he had multiple versions of the greyhawk dungeon notes. And since they were for his personal campaign, they were mostly quick jots and little scribblings like most dms have for their campaigns. He himself said they wouldnt be much use to anyone. No idea about blackmoore though.

So is there anything OD&D has that's better than later editions?

>>399211

>So is there anything OD&D has that's better than later editions?

In terms of mechanics or settings/adventures?

>Mechanics

OD&D and by extension B/X D&D, which a lot of OSR retroclones are based off of, is exceedingly simple and easily modified. Since most of the rules can be jotted down in a few pages with the rest of the book being lists and tables for the most part. It allows for a more experienced/creative GM to make ample use of Rule 0 and homebrew the hell out of his game much easier. Granted you can homebrew any kind of system if you put your mind to it; just the simplistic nature of the rules in the older editions and games styled off those editions make that easier since you don't have to worry about one little change completely warping the entirety of the ruleset and breaking the system.

Another thing that the older editions do is give you a different style of play that the later editions just plain out stopped catering to. Which is a gritty, low fantasy, everyone could die in one hit without proper planning styled game. This very much comes from D&D's wargaming roots but the lack of hirelings and the superheroic powerlevel that many characters begin at makes the feeling of the game completely different from its earlier roots. Sure, you can very much try and make that sort of game but by the nature of the power scaling you're going to have a much harder time killing a character who has 3 death saving throws in a party with a cleric who has 3 Healing Spells at the ready vs a party where reaching 0 HP is immediate death (And most of the time you'll be lucky to have HP over 8) and the cleric doesn't learn any spells until 2nd level. Challenging such superpowered characters also become harder, when you have so many options in combat at such a low level the same creature that would have easily have been a life or death encounter for an OD&D party is just a saturday stroll for later editions. Or in short: OD&D was more of a wargame that tested player skill, planning, and problem solving creativity while later editions were more about character building skill, what you can do on the sheet, and rules jinking. I wouldn't say one is particularly better than the other but it's two very distinct styles of play that is up to preference.

>Settings and Adventures

Not sure about others but I still make liberal use of the old Dungeon magazine dungeons and adventures. There's a sort of timelessness to them that still hold up to this day. Most of them are very much built as self confined things that can be plopped anywhere in the campaign, they go indepth on the things you need to know such as the mapping, treasure, encounters, and a variety of random tables that you can make use of. Overall they're just far more game-able and interesting than a lot of the modern day stuff which seem to very much railroad the players as opposed to allowing them to choose their poison. In general a lot of older school design philosophy was built upon player choices, and while this is something you can still do regardless of system, I have found that those players that come in from the newer editions expect more railroad. Though keep in mind your mileage will vary on that as I'm just speaking from personal experience. Many of the older editions were also the ones that introduced some of the best and long lasting settings that the game has to offer without any of the modern day pozz.

TL;DR: The OSR due to its simplicity and timelessness allows me and my players the most amount of freedom to toy with it in anyway that we please without being so freeform that it loses all of its flavor and framework.

>>399261

Thanks but i meant specifically OD&D conpared to other OSR editions like B/X or AD&D.

>>399302

My bad. At the very least if anybody new to OSR comes in they'll have something to read. To better answer your questions though I think it comes down to 3 things.

1. There's only 2 types of dice that you'll be using for everything in the game: d20 and d6. All Hit Dice, damage, and attributes were based off of the d6 and any other rolls were just d20. There were no other dice necessary in order to enjoy the game. Yes, this means that daggers and greatswords did the same amount of damage for the most part. The key difference for them when it came down in actual play is the roleplay aspect. In tight halls and crawlspaces you won't be swinging that giant greatsword around, at least not if your GM was competently paying attention to that sort of thing. It wasn't until the Greyhawk supplement that different types of dice were introduced.

2. Separation of Race and Classes... for the most part. While humans could be any class the Demi-humans were restricted to specific ones. Dwarfs could only be fighters, Elves could be Fighters or Magic Users and could switch between the two at the start of the adventure(They had to choose to be one or the other at the start of the adventure they couldn't be both at the same time. However they could wear Magic Armor even as a Magic User which was a HUGE bonus.), and Halflings could only be fighters. These restrictions are actually what lead to them making Race AS Class for B/X since it didn't make sense to give them the illusion of choice. Also there was no Thief class originally, that was added later and allowed the Halfling to choose between Fighter or Thief. These class restrictions could easily be ignored if you wanted to though and it didn't break the game to do so.

3. Pretty much nothing in the way of real modifiers. Having a high Charisma would give you a bonus to the amount of hirelings you could have and having a high attribute score in your Prime Requisite gave you an XP bonus. Outside of that the numbers didn't really matter at all as there were no modifiers to To-Hit (except for a high DEX which gave +1 if I'm recalling correctly), damage, AC, or most anything else that you've come to expect modifiers to exist for. HP mods were pretty much limited to +1 or -1 to your Hit Die roll but that's if you hit the extremes on either end. Later OSR's that were created to emulate OD&D like Swords and Wizardry did expand upon the modifiers a bit. Even so you'll not be looking at anything higher than a +2 and that's if you roll especially high.

There's probably a few other things that I'm missing/misremembering about OD&D that others can hopefully correct me on. Truth be told I don't think there's anything that OD&D particularly does that could immediately be called "better" than B/X or AD&D. If rules complexity is something you put a lot of stock into then the system isn't going to interest you at all. But what you do get is D&D in its simple primordial state. Easily changeable in anyway that you please. Which for someone like me who loves homebrewing and is slowly losing patience for long winded rules the older I get, it's perfect for my needs. Hope this helped you out, anon.

So if i want to play OD&D but dont want to use the d20 for combat, how would i go about doing that?

>>399630

Use 3d6. Or a d12, if you're feeling frisky.

>>399656

3d6?

>>399660

Yeah, 3d6. That's what 'Ops & Tactics' and '3d6 In Order' did, and it works perfectly fine. I mean, come on! It's just two numbers short of a 20. Sure, you can only roll 3 through 18 (4 numbers short of what the d20 offered), but it doesn't make that much of a difference.

>>399671

3d6 for combat? And use the d20 chart?

I meant more like using the chainmail man to man rules.

>>399682

>>399630

2d6. You need a copy of Chainmail for the charts to consult, obviously. When you see something like "Super-Hero + 1" it indicates to roll using the Super-Hero column, but add +1 to the die roll. The idea is that in OD&D, on a "hit", you inflict 1-Die of damage (d6) instead of delivering a kill - or, alternatively, the number of HD a creature possesses indicates how many "hits" it is capable of surviving. It's not very scientific, so be warned.

>>399630

> So if i want to play OD&D but dont want to use the d20 for combat, how would i go about doing that?

By not using it.

If you want more specific answer (the one that is useful to you), you should explain what is the problem with d20 (and those who give answers should've also asked this - instead of autistically making suggestions; maybe you want automatic damage, with no rolls).

>>399685

What about for monsters that arent on the chart?

>>399717

Eyeball that shit and pray.

>>399719

I think I'll find a better way.

>>399721

If you want an interesting alternative, look up the Dragon's at Dawn ruleset. It has an interesting "Armor Saving Throw" mechanic and a few other things, which let you get away from the d20.

>>399722

I mean I don't hate the d20 way of doing to hit rolls. I just want to see what its like to play OD&D the way they played it originality.

Alright so what I figured I'm going to do is take the Man to Man Melee table from chainmail and then convert the armor types to armor class. So that way I can just take any monster and use it on the man to man chart.

When it says that a fighting man fights as 2+1 men or something like that I'm assuming that it means he will attack twice and then add 1 to the last roll considering in war games you get an attack for each person in a squad. And since that guy fights as two people he would get two attacks.

The only thing I'm kind of stuck on is what "weapon" a monster would use when attacking a person on the man to man chart. I mean for things like goblins its fine but for things like gelatinous cubes and such I'm not really sure how I'll do it other than roll a d12 to see what "weapon" it has.

Since halfchan is a failure like always, I'm coming here for my osr fix.

Thinking of making my own RC clone but with the demihuman races having three classes each and humans having Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Magic-User, Paladin, Ranger and Thief. Good idea or no?

>>407460

Why make a retroclone when you can just make a book of alternate classes/races instead? A lot of zines do this.

>>407460

Look into Adventure Conqueror Kings (ACKS) and the supplemental material. All of this is in the treasure trove links in the OP. The supplements have some interesting race-specific class combinations that you may find useful for your ideas. Otherwise, you could do old-school crossclassing like in AD&D and just limit demihumans to certain classes. And only use the base classes of Fighter, Magic-User, Cleric, Thief.

>>407466

I mean, I guess I could do that.

>>407469

Anon, I like more than just 4 classes and I feel that the 7 listed hit a lot of the major archetypes of heroes.

Houserules for poison & petrification.

Poison

Two saves must be rolled.

>If the first save is passed, it deals 1 damage and there is no need to make further rolls.

>If the first one is failed and the second is passed, the character drops to 0hp and is weakened, becoming incapacitated for a turn. After that time, he must save or die.

>If both fail, the character dies in 1d4-1 rounds.

Petrification

Two saves must be rolled.

>If the first save is passed, there is no effect.

>If the first one is failed and the second is passed, the character is paralyzed for 1d4 rounds; afterwards he receives -20% to all rolls, and movement is halved. After one hour, he must save again or turn to stone.

>If both saves are failed, he turns to stone instantly.

My intention is to remove some of the instant, all-or-nothing factor from these, and perhaps make them slightly more forgiving, while still keeping them scary as fuck.

These rules are mostly for use by the PCs, NPCs and monsters will still save or suck.

>>407474

> I like more than just 4 classes

I think he meant custom class system that was in one of the ACKS supplements. You can fine-tune quite a lot of stuff there (which will give illusion of balance to you).

>>407474

The three classes you listed can all be played from the initial four. A ranger is basically a fighter with a bow, a druid is basically a cleric of nature, and a paladin is basically a fighter/cleric dualclass.

>>383371

You've never read the Gor books have you? Tarnsman of Gor through Priest-Kings of Gor is a lot less sexual than some of the other fantasy fiction published in the mid 60's.

> a knock off that is like 100% how the typical "character interaction" goes

Are you retarded, Tarl Cabot literally flies the first slave put into his possession to her homeland to be reunited with her family in relative freedom. Tarl actively aspires to eliminate slavery and subjugation from Gorean culture and refuses to treat Talena with anything less than gentlemanly dignity when she stops being a bitch long enough for him to not worry about her foiling his poorly thought out plans, something she calls him out as a limp-dicked pussy for and instead of keeping her as his slave as she actively offers herself as once shes' come around to his earth-man ways he refuses, properly marries her and sees her put upon a throne to rule as a free woman.

I say this as a guy who bought some of the Gor books specifically because I wanted to read slave erotica and got a marginably passable Princess of Mars pastiche instead. Don't be a faggot, if you haven't read a book don't act like you have.

>>410450

>Knave

Never heard of it and never saw it mentioned here. Got any more info on it? Yes, I know I could just search the web but talking about systems is what this thread is for, right?

>>410455

It's not good.

Anybody have suggestions for an OSR Sci fi rule book? I know SWN but I want to try something new.

>>413213

What kind of sci-fi do you want? Hard? Soft? Science-Fantasy? Wacky/gonzo?

>>413213

Gamma World.

>>413213

Seconding >>413269's recc of Gamma World because the only good sci-fi retros are SWN and Gamma World.

>>413265

I'm fine with any

>>413277

I will look into them. Thanks

This thread is practically dead but whatever.

What do you guys think of the theory that gary gygax made the combat rules im AD&D not make complete sense on purpose so that budding DMs would be forced to use their heads and make the system work?

>>419407

That sounds retarded.

>>419407

What >>419409 said. It's more likely that any errors or lack of clarification in the rules are just stuff that never game up during his games

>>420863

>Dungeon Crawl Classics

Never looked into that one because it uses those weirdo dice. Compatibility is one of the main perks of OSR for me and either those make dice make it harder to converse material or in case they don't then I'd wonder why the authors even bothered to have them.

>>420863

DCC has everyone start at 0 level, where your characters are all butchers and bakers and candlestick makers. If you get 10 experience you pick a class and become it. Classes don't have different experience tables and it only uses the fortitude, reflex and will saves. The game is heavy on RNG, your starting profession is rolled (which also determines race), your starting bonus languages are rolled, you roll to see what spells your character knows and what side-effects casting the spell entails. Warriors roll a die every attack to see what their attack and damage bonus is, you'll roll for a "lucky sign" to see what stats your luck stat modifier applies to (luck replaces wisdom). The game advises you to do all this random generation to prevent min-maxing and create unlikely characters you'll grow attached to, however the game is very lethal and typically only rolling high or describing your plan in such detail that no question of chance comes up will save you. All the weird dice can be substituted with combinations of regular dice (need a D16? just roll a D8 then flip a coin, heads adds 8 to the result) but the real killer is character sheets. A starting level adventure has you make four 0 level characters and play them assuming that most or all of them will kick the bucket. The game doesn't have feats but published adventures will have permanent stat increases and decreases in them and the chance to earn unique abilities that are permanent.

>>420863

It's 3E with increased lethality that calls itself OSR.

>>420863

DCC started out making PSR inspired dungeons for 3.5 but the homebrewers a shit engine that is not OSR. It's more like Fate hosed down in OSR juice. Don't bring it into OSR, it's less OSR than eve actual 3.5

>>422837

There is a free dice app built specifically for the game that has all of the crit tables, spells and more.

>>422824

This, every mage is a magical Chernobyl waiting to happen serving an alien diety with no good plans for this world.

>>422844

That may be way more intense than most players are willing to indulge in, but personally, I find that way more interesting than the typical wise old magic man who just gets to do whatever he wants all the time. Magic is dangerous and people who wield it freely should reflect that danger in very clear ways.

Pre-Greyhawk supplement OD&D without a third party compiling it into a single volume is unplayable garbage.

>>423807

Whats wrong with it? You just dont like having separate books?

>>422844

So, like in... F.A.T.A.L.?

>>422950

> so rules lawyering faggots don't end up Greenwooding the setting.

Oh. Another clone of Wankerfox, or the same that exercised scent glands a few threads below?

Anybody have a preference for OD&D vs B/X D&D vs AD&D and why?

>1 - What was your first OSR game?

AD&D 2e

2 - What do you enjoy about OSR games?

Games that are very light and others that are rule dense.

3- Do you have any homebrew content for OSR games and, if so, will you share?

No.