/tf2/ - Team Fortress 2

Heavy and Engie are least cancerous, Sniper is most cancerous. Scout and Spy are pretty fuckin cancer too, but sniper is the worst.

Medic mains are somewhat in the middle because they have it backwards. They always bitch about their team when they're the problem when they FUCKING POCKET A SODA POPPER SCOUT INTO A SENTRY NEST WHEN THEY SHOULD UBER ME, THE SOLDIER WITH AN UNUSUAL TEAM CAPTAIN, TO TAKE OUT THE FUCKING SENTRY. FUCK.

Spy mains are egotistical fuckwads. The best thing you can do to them is ignore them, and only shoot at them when necessary.

>>3405

>Heavy

Are you sure? Last time I've heard, Heavy mains are just sandvich munching friendlies that have pony sprays and FNAF usernames.

>>3412

Nah, the fags that do that surely don't main heavy. I'm talking REAL heavy players. They typically love their team and are great fun to play with.

>>3404

I'm assuming you mean in highlander? Yeah, scout's are frequently cancerous there, all the good scout mains play 6s.

However, I feel the hugest tumor has still been left undiscussed: pyro mains. They always either delude themselves into thinking that pyro is a highly skilled class that revolutionizes the game, or sulk about how pyro is underpowered.

>>3404

From experience all Heavy mains I've encountered have been really really nice. I usually add them because they always help me out and are appreciative of teamwork so it's fun to play with them in the future.

>>3417

Pyro's not highly skilled, but he is slightly underpowered. He needs a way to counter demo's fucking crutch shields.

>>3419

press the right click button once he gets close to you.

>>3420

The charge makes killing demoknights incredibly difficult due to the fire resistance and afterburn immunity. If you want to kill a chargeknight your only option is to flarepunch him which isn't reliable and most pyros simply can't do it. Also demoknights can just wait for a pyro to airblast, charge and get an kill due to Valves retarded implementation of shield crits, and TF2's hit detection is so shit that laggy eyelander demos can kill pyros even when they airblast.

>>3421

Use the Shotgun.

>>3422

or valve could just let the counter to demoknights actually counter them

just a thought

>>3428

Fuck those people.

>>3427

Demoknight's real counter is heavies. Pyros can counter them anyway, airblast nullifies the charge and doesn't let them get within melee range, and the shotgun kills them with ease.

For comp the least cancerous is definitely Heavy mains. Every Heavy main I know is a genuinely good guy and super smart. Knows how to play the game. Second would be Soldier mains. They're usually good guys, maybe a bit hotheaded at times, but good guys. The most cancerous are probably Spy mains. They're usually really edgy and underage. Really annoying too. Second would be Demo mains. Most Demo mains I've met were just plain creepy. Third is Pyro mains. Never trust someone who proudly admits that they main Pyro.

In pubs everyone is cancer.

>>3430

this. Not to mention the only players that actually gripe about demonight aren't good enough to beat a demoknight (which, if you know what you're doing, is especially easy, and this is certainly the case when it comes to full demoknights).

these are the trends i've observed in highlander

scout: obnoxious, meme-spewer

soldier: acts cool but secretly full of hate

pyro: whiny "underdog"

demo: wigger scout main

heavy: who?

engi: aspergers

medic: literally gay

sniper: no personality

spy: edgy manchild

>>3580

is it even possible to main medic

>pluck up reverse death ray is someone's ass

>share it with the others from time to time when there's not much danger

>press right click and win round

In order from complete cancer to okay:

>Sniper

>Soldier

>Scout

>Heavy

>Engineer

>Medic

>Demo/Pyro tied

>Spy

I can't even believe I'm saying this, given the faggot spy mains I've encountered, but it's true.

>>3410

The amount I ignore "trick" and combo-spamming scouts and spies is almost criminal. Sometimes I just keep ignoring them even if they kill me because they take so long to pull off their autistic bullshit.

>>3413

They are also terrified by the concepts of moving, aiming, or actually protecting their own medic.

>>3415

As a utility pyro I really must protest. Unless they're using the phlog, they wouldn't go pyro if they sucked. They'd just go demo or sniper for free killz, or black box soldier for free bullshitting. Frankly, only noob scouts lose to pyros, because all you have to do is run away and use your better ranged weapons. If I hit you with a flare, as slow as flares travel and as fast as you do, it's because you were predictable enough for me to know what you were going to do half a second before you even decided to do it.

The main reason engis and heavies are both really relaxed classes isn't because they're cool people, it's because they're both playing bullet spam classes which don't require them to aim or move. It's not even that they're overpowered, it's just that no matter what they do or don't do (aside from some dumb combo spam and gimmicks), they're going to perform about average against most players anyways.

>>3417

>>3420

Don't whine about pyro if you've never actually played the class. Airblasting a charging demo is like scraping gay off an OP. They stick to the ground for the duration of the charge unless you get the distance just right, and if you get the distance just right, they're already close enough to lop your head off before the blast hits them with their increased range. Also, melee lag point.

>>3419

Bait them, wait for the charge, jump left or right twice just before they can get to you, and flare them while backpedaling before they can turn or recharge. Also, they're easily led to uneven ground where you can more easily toast them.

>>3422

>oh hey, I noticed you're playing a class-based game with lots of distinct class weapons

>why not use the stock weapons instead of anything interesting?

>my calculator says you can tryhard better that way

>I mean, really, we could all just run around with stock secondaries for a more predictable gameplay experience, right?

>Boy I sure do hate those random crits, losing triggers me

Pls stop.

Not to mention that's actually a terrible idea outside of grindy, play-your-role-to-the-letter autism competitions, because you lose all long-range capability for better mid-range, which makes you helpless against Heavies, medics with the cbow, scouts with the pistol, engies with the pistol, spies with revolvers, snipers in general, splashtastic soldiers, and…yeah, everything but demos unless they're right in shotgun range. Did I mention pyro is not actually the fastest class?

>>3424

>only ever take med kits when I need them

>scout main

…bullshit. There's no way a scout main like that exists, sorry pal.

Also isn't the BFB now shit since it's been nerfed anyways? It was always a lot of fun on trade servers back when you could go truly fast.

>>3431

>I see the stairs

>I must rocket jump up the stairs

>wtf how did that hacker at the top of the stairs kill me but my rocket didn't kill him

>what's a health

>>3430

>>3570

Guys, seriously, airblast is total shit against demoknights. I would rather airblast a Direct Hit rocket than a charging demo. It just doesn't work, the range is too big and Valve's melee code is too fubar, and they get heavy as lead when they're charging for airblast purposes. Playing down a demoknight as a pyro is extremely similar to matador tactics. Now, if you don't let them get close to you, you can just flare and laugh, with an eye open in case they start shooting pipes.

>>3580

It's true that there are a lot of whiny pyros.

But it's also true that there are even more people who whine about W+M1, when anyone who has played TF2 for more than a day should be able to easily counter it as any class.

>>3581

If a team sticks together well (without making themselves soldier-bait), and keeps a good moderate pace, a good medic can be promiscuous and hold the entire thing together with overheal, extinguishing and bandaids. Sadly, even if that happens the medic will almost certainly be the retard who picks the worst heavy of the bunch to be the super soldier instead. Valve knew what they were dooming the class to when they made Meet the Medic. The rare medic who knows how to be a good team slut has a constant craving for attention, respect, absolute protection no matter what shit's going down, and will brag endlessly about topping the scoreboard. If they don't get enough attention, all medic mains have the special ability to summon an equally passive-aggressive comrade (I mean, really, what other personality were you expecting from a typical medic main?) to do healing loops with and sneak around while their team gets killed until they can go on a brief spree of melee killing under uber, until the uber ends or the other team notices and avoids them.

I have played with really nice, helpful medics before. They should uber more pyros though, our HU/s is almost a perfect match and uber is ideal for close-range damage. I get why they don't though, pyro was getting cancerous for a while now, especially since the phlog came in, and then Meet the Pyro made it autism for the whole brony, so if I were a medic main I probably wouldn't consider ubering any unproven pyro to begin with. Not to mention, charging uber on a pyro is tough because they go into such dangerous places and most won't or can't protect a medic.

>>3595

Flares move faster than rockets and don't have nearly as obvious visual or auditory cues. I'd say that they are one of the easiest things to get direct hits with, especially since the pyro can stunlock most classes.

Aairblasting demoknights is pretty easy. I've got about 35 hours on pyro and I can do it very consistently. The charge only moves them at 750 hu/s, it's feasible to airblast them before they get too close. If you really can't, consider lowering your lerp to about 30.

>>3596

3581 is kidding obviously.

No, I won't start übering more pyros. A scout or soldier is much better for ubers, as they can move faster, which is better than having to wait for the medic to be near them to chase frags. And to describe übering pyros, the bad ones don't understand that they're invulnerable, and the mediocre ones don't understand that the best thing to do is W+M1 and instead try to do stupid shit like flares and power jack enemies. Even a good pyro being offensively ubered is likely to just be kited due to his poor mobility and range. Pyros are, however, good for übering to negate an enemy's uber.

>>3598

The change to airblast is some inexcusable bullshit, and everyone who uses a blast-and-reserve-shooter combo, or really even a direct ambush puff-blast-sting combo with the stunlock is a massive faggot.

By all means, any time you see a pyro pulling that shit, deride them most strenuously. Valve should get their shit together and change it back, it worked fine before, and if a soldier has their shit together and can peg me in the face right after I airblast them, we both deserve that outcome. Or, at least, they shouldn't give pyros that AND the reserve shooter. That's sort of bullshit to have access to along with any sort of airblast in the first place.

I mean, pyros have always had a strong ambush component, but their instant damage was limited for a reason, they're team players, we already have a spy class. Offensive class-replacement weapons and combos are dumb. (Looking at you, Ambassador)

I would agree that rockets are easier to get a direct hit with, but the thing is, you don't need to get a direct hit with a rocket. Technically, especially with the latest tweaks, the same is true in some cases of the detonator and the scorch shot, but it's nothing like rocket splash. When I go soldier it's generally to get rid of an annoying sentry, so I use the Direct Hit a lot. Here's the comparison:

>20Hu/s slower (which is 1% speed difference)

>all you have to do is rest crosshairs on target, whereas pyros have to track, lead, predict, just like a rocket launcher while arcing the shot. This part isn't just a matter of judging the adjustment by the distance (which means you have to readjust as they move), it also makes it a lot harder to hit them laterally because you can't just put the indicator over them, you have to be looking down at them and up at your indicator while running around. It's like a cross between a demo's pipe and a direct hit. Incidentally, using a flare gun will help you be somewhat better at using both the grenade/sticky launchers and rocket launchers. Even if your prey is running straight away from you and doesn't turn or something while the flare's airborne, if you fail to correctly compensate for both their current distance and their predicted distance, you can go over their head or at their feet pretty easily at long range.

Okay so back to comparing the Direct Hit (specifically to the normal Flare Gun, because I think it's the most effective overall):

>still 30% explosion range vs no range on miss

>clip size 4 vs clip size 1, similar times to reload a single shot

>direct hit significantly more physics force/knockback/displacement/punch, making followup hits harder than with the flaregun

>flare gun useless for even primary hit if target is submerged

>rockets have more obvious cues as noted (though the flares do have that distinctive high-pitched whine)

>can fire four direct hit rockets in the time it takes to fire and reload a flaregun twice or maybe three times, haven't tested it

Four direct hit rockets can kill anything under normal circumstances (assuming zero airborne hits, estimate 112+112+112+112), barring maybe a wrangled l3, whereas unless target is already on fire, you get 30+90+afterburn from two flare shots…so, aside from scouts which are pretty hard to hit, kills spies and snipers. Great, but not spectacular in comparison.

The Direct Hit also minicrits airborne targets, but only if they were knocked airborne by explosions (so, we know Valve can do that and actually chose not to for the Reserve Shooter, and meant for pyros to do that awful cheesing…)

So flares are easier to get immediate followup hits with, but slower to fire, harder to target in the first place, have a greater skill ramp up to hit at longer ranges due to the trajectory, don't suffer from distance damage reduction but also don't benefit from proximity damage bonus, nearly same projectile speed, and it takes two flares (and no healthpack, medic, enemy pyro, jarate, mad milk, or water source interfering between them) to deal slightly more damage than one direct hit rocket at default range, but also inflict afterburn.

Just looked it up and 0.8 secs for Direct Hit, 2 for flare gun, so you can shoot fire four Direct Hit rockets in 0.4 seconds more than it takes to shoot two flares.

>>3601

Now, I have definitely seen soldiers complaining about the Direct Hit being OP, but I've more often seen them complaining that it's useless because you have to get, well, a direct hit. The ones who complained never seemed to change to it from their Black Box or Original or whatever to prove their point.

So, with all of this autistic detail, what I'm saying is that flares really do take skill, luck, and prediction to land, and the flare gun's an appropriately slow and underpowered situational weapon to fill a secondary slot. It's also funny when you come across another pyro with a flare, because neither of you want to close to close-range to strafe or melee each other when they other one starts to flame and strafe (because strafing pyros are sitting ducks to every player not being strafed on), so we run around trying to fight and keep an eye on other enemies while trading flares back and forth waiting to catch the other one stopping, looking away, or adopting a straight and predictable path towards something. Then, when we actually pull it off and hit the other one, it's like WOW, all of that bullshit for 30 damage, and they run away and get a healthpack immediately. Which is really much more entertaining than just another midrange shotgun grind.

>>3598

Doesn't mean it's not a good discussion point, though.

The problem is that so many scout players are dumb enough to run ahead of the medic and then act surprised when their uber is gone and they die.

Everything you said about ubering pyros is true, because with the code changes and Pyromania every noob might start Pyro instead of Heavy or Sniper now.

An uber pyro is to take out engi stuff once a sentry is down and clean up heavies, demos, soldiers, at once. Since the speed matches, the medic and pyro can actually move together and wipe the power classes, which tend to clump together a lot for survival. The downside is that you can be blasted back by stuff more easily and that the medic has to also survive whatever the pyro went through to get fairly close to them before popping the uber. The upside is that it's not a heavy, so the enemy team can't just step around a corner and laugh while the uber wears off. It's true that if you run out of slow meat to burn, you're wasting uber on flares, but that also means the power classes are dead or not in the immediate area. Pyro's still enough faster than soldier/demo/heavy to make it hurt.

Really, though, a kritz uber is where a flamethrower can shine the most.

I can't speak for other pyros, but if the other team goes uber and you have an uber, drop it on whichever heavy/demo/soldier can best clean up the rest of the team supporting the enemy's uber pair. Whether it's by getting their full attention while they knock me down, or by breaking the uber or just pushing them back because they failed to give me their full attention soon enough, I can pretty reliably waste all of three-quarters of an uber if they pop it when I'm fairly close and there's a little cover. The exceptions are of course large, flat, open areas and Arena where I can't respawn. Trading the life of a pyro for a full uber is a really good trade for the pyro's team in most cases, especially if any engis are nearby.

>>3410

>people actually main a class meant for nothing other than grieffing

From my experience

>Spy: attention whore, usually has a twitch/yt channel

>Sniper: autist who didn't have the DM skill for scout

>Demo: absolute trash at low divs team player at high divs

>Heavy: genuinely nice person

>Medic: gurrrrl gamer or masochist who loves demo dick

>Engineer: Pretends to be chill but is actually a whiny bitch

>Scout: Egotistical dickheads, most likely to spam binds and talk trash

>Pyro: Nobody cares

>Soldier: Always butthurt

>>3627

Pretty sure I know who you're talking about.

Let me guess, they talk on mic the entire round about stupid shit because they're too lazy to use mumble?

>>3626

In my experience, the spies are actually the guys who think they're super-oldschool and only attention whore with their loadout and taunting but never talk or type. And actually suck pretty bad at the class when they can't find any stairs.

The rest is pretty much spot-on. Especially fucking soldier whine. "Oh no I get 30 HP for each enemy I splash-tag but I still died to the scout 1v1 because I used up all my health flying around with my autism spade, let me rage and call him a noob for standing still or ignoring me while I sperg out". And the Original. "If I use this everyone will think I am an oldschool Quake Pro." Doesn't work if you can't use your shiny new penis without getting mowed down because it lacks the magic health you're used to.

Scout is fun to play but I rarely do because all of the scout mains actually are like scout IRL including the obliviousness to the irony of scout's character and TF2 characters in general. Scout is their protagonist and they will be ready dicks in hand to splooge on their mom's computers whenever the next comic comes out and scout gets a second date with Pauling culminating in a sloppy fursuit MMF with Spy.

>>3628

Of course they complain and fail at acting smug before getting quickly triggered when anyone reminds them they're in teamchat.

>>3626

>Scout: Egotistical dickheads, most likely to spam binds and talk trash

scout main here, can confirm.

ヽ(ຈຈ)ﾉ LE FISH FACE ヽ(ຈຈ)ﾉ

>>3685

What the team generally needs is people playing a class they're halfway competent with.

>>3404

I'm gonna be honest they're all pretty awful

>Sniper / Spy

Edgey, always overuse it in pubs

>Scout

OP image is fairly accurate

>Pyro/Heavy/Engi

Always circle jerks about how they're not an easy class and people need to respect them more

>Medic

"As A medic main, I am gods gift to the earth and am entitled to everyone's attention"

>Demo/Soldier

a lot of people think they're good at these classes by doing basic rollouts and hitting splash shots, really annoying.

obviously they all have a much higher skill ceiling and whatnot outside of pubs, though a lot of the core attributes remain, although replace mention that every pyro main at "high level" hates everything about the class and "high level" spy mains know their class is dogshite,