/tf2/ - Team Fortress 2

Just git gud.

Even on hightower minis aren't that bad.

Even a scoot can take one on.

Better question: Where are the servers that ban players for attempting to pick sniper?

>>2828

I disagree.

Minisentries have a minuscule hitbox, show no laser sight (easier to be surprised by them), are aimbots with substantial knockback, and can be crapped out again in a few seconds. I find snipers much less annoying; at least they need some amount of skill, and when they're dead, you can push knowing they're down for ~10 seconds.

>>2830

They do? I never had much trouble hitting them with flares. The knockback is their most annoying feature but I can still get the drop on them and roast them at melee easier than normal sentries. The build time is annoying yeah, but that's why you slay the engi first/immediately after. Coupled with the Frontier Justice and a competent engi it can be pretty cheap, but it's comparable to having two engis shoot at you with pistols, plus a little knockback. Which for pyros at least isn't half as bad as some fgt spamming a Black Box at your feet.

I dunno about snipers, you have to be fast but it's seriously just point and click, zero falloff, hitscan. I got the Classic recently and didn't have any trouble making my first few non-scoped full-charge headshots from a fair distance. Zoomed in is just even easier. It's not like it matters if you miss if you're far enough behind enemy lines. The only class that's a serious threat to you at that point is your own, which seems pretty innately OP. The only serious skill I see in sniper is airshots and manipulating/abusing knowledge of hitboxes and visual/physics clipping discrepancies to cheapshot other snipers.

But yeah, remember, you're after the engi. Won't be far. Or if they are, keep pushing through and wait for them to come back. The mini-sentry is such flimsy shit that even its tiny deploy time is enough to kill it if you can tank or dodge a little engi sidearm fire.

The only thing I'd ever change to mini-sentries is to

REMOVE THE FUCKING KNOCKBACK HOLY SHIT.

>>2835

Isn't it a pain in the ass to sit still for 6 seconds to destroy it with flares? And the tiny hitbox is a problem for people with shotguns or pistols. People say

"Scout just outranges it with pistol" but the mini's so tiny most of the bullets miss, even if you stand still with your crosshair centered on them.

As for running into enemy lines to kill the gunslinger weilder, competent engineers stay within range

of their minis, it's easy to move the sentry with them. If they have decent DM skill, then they are basically a 150 HP shotgun+pistol with a small aimbot that deals 48 DPS, noticeable knockback, and significant jitter. That hard counters scouts, pyros, and in open areas heavies too. It even contests soldiers, who need two rockets for the Engineer, two for the mini, and he loses at least 100 hp from the mini alone. That's an awful lot for an extremely low skill floor playstyle. Normal engineers have aimbot area denial, but they must have wise positioning and nest maintenance. Gunslinger sucks the strategy out of the class.

Snipers are at least skill indexed. As they get better at clicking heads, you ought to get better at dodging. Sniping's only really easy against bad players. Good players will change heights, directions, speeds frequently, and not have an obvious goal in mind. I can trick a skilled sniper, but the gibusvision with a gunslinger is stealing at least 50 HP with his retardedly placed mini no matter what I do.

>>2838

They probably should, I mean it's mini, why does it still have more force than a gun?

>>2839

>sit still

Clearly you have the luxury of playing a less expendable class than Pyro. If I see a mini-sentry up ahead I try to kill the engi with flares while dancing around to avoid fire and spies, if I succeed then I spycheck around me and fight anyone from the other team who comes along while tossing a flare at the mini sentry now and then if I'm not at terrible health or against a soldier. Most of the reason I use the flare isn't for crits, it's just the only way to give pyro anything approaching long-range weaponry. The accuracy is decent, though fairly shit for a single projectile and hobbled by having to judge the arc. Sometimes someone comes along with a black box not knowing how to use it and just makes the mini sentry that much easier to kill.

If that doesn't work I just wait for a soldier or demo from my team, or if there are none or they're all otherwise engaged or can't do basic stuff I just go soldier or demo myself. My default soldier loadout includes the Direct Hit and it doesn't really matter what else, because I usually go soldier to roflstomp other soldiers, fuck around with snipers in new and exciting ways, and most of all break down engi nests enough in one life that I can respawn before they recover from the damage and keep beating them down. I love it when a medic sees I'm going after a nest and gives me a kritz, if I'm doing well enough to consistently land rockets on moving enemies too it makes for a very rewarding wipe.

The great thing about engi in general is that they're vulnerable during transport/setup. Sure, the mini's so cheap that, especially with the FJ they may just decide to break the old one down and pop a new one, but that's still time with their pad out, and that's time to burninate. A mini's set up time is still enough for me to burn it down, and the engi is close at least at first, so I can set them ablaze at least. From there it's a flare or two to a kill, admittedly while being blasted with lead.

I didn't know that you needed two regular rockets for the mini. Soldiers should really stay out of range, use the Direct Hit, and let the damage falloff do whatever, they're still blowing that shit up after all. I've taken down an (unattended) L3 sentry with a flare before by outranging it and being patient.

I've messed around with gunslinger and I'll say there is still definitely skill in the placement and timing, but the difference is whether you kill 5 or 15 f2ps per deploy. I would definitely say it's OP, but TF2 is full of worse items in my opinion, starting with the Black Box and any sniper primary equip including stock.

You can't dodge hitscan, and while I can bob and weave and jump with the best of them, I can't prevent my trajectories from being predictable while circle-strafing. Not to mention the prevalence of…ahem…"tool-assisted" play by snipers because it's harder to call out when they're not totally obvious about it.

Any class that can kill you whenever you're not spending all of your time focused on them dancing around like a retard (in which case they still can kill you without you having any good way to retaliate) doesn't really deserve the title of skill in my opinion. If the best way to counter it is to become the same class, the class is OP, that's sort of the litmus test. inb4 spy, the razorback shat on that.

Again, stay out of range. Minis also have very poor range. You can't think of a mini as another aimbotting player, it's a sentry, just a small one. Fast setup or no, it's stationary. It has to be destroyed and replaced (consuming over half of metal) or the engi has to pick it up and become helpless. Once it kills you once you know where it is (unless it's been moved again, lol) and you can grind it down like you would any other sentry, but faster and easier, from a location from which the engi can't come shoot at you without sticking his neck out. Then you kill the engi while he's putting another one down.

If it's in a corner in an enclosed space, that's why the tf2 gods gave us sticky bombs.

>>2840

About your point that the engi is vulnerable when rebuilding; that engineer can plop it down without hindering movement and then switch to his shotgun. If you stand still to burn/destroy the mini he ought to kill you, if he's not terrible.

Minis are somewhat stationary, but there's no reason for the engineer not to move locations frequently. Assuming it's always in the same place is not practical.

I find it odd that all your arguments pro minisentry suggest that I must change class to direct hit soldier or stay out of its range entirely, yet argue that you should not have to do anything about snipers, such as avoid their sight lines. No, instead a class that's entirely skill based and has glaring weaknesses should be completely redone to make the game easier for you.

All I want is minis to turn slower (regular sentry turn speed) and have 90 HP. How do you think valve should fix snipers?

>>2853

Bodyshots do 0 damage, OR anything that isn't a headshot instakills the sniper.

Then it would just be people with skill and people with aimbots, so they should scrap that and remove the class altogether.