No.1683
There's a thread about how annoying minisentries are, but what about this piece of work? At least a minisentry engineer has to learn how to aim his shotgun/pistol and survive with only 150 health. Dead ringer takes no skill.
Actually, you know what? It's worse than that. The dead ringer actually makes you less skilled. It actively teaches you to play spy worse. How do you get you cloak? By being hit. So instead of being subtle and trying to not draw attention to yourself, it teaches you to be the most goddamn obvious spy in the entire fucking world and gives you a massive damage resistance so that you're not put back by your immense lack of skill.
But what about after you cloak and want to get those backstabs? It still doesn't teach you to be subtle because who cares if they turn around and attack you, just pull out your dead ringer and enjoy that smooth 90% damage resistance as you take more damage than it takes to kill a heavy while surviving for no good reason.
Oh and if you have a spycicle? You can use it with the dead ringer to fake out pyros (all while taking virtually no damage from their flamethrower) and reliably escape from what is suppose to be your biggest counter in the game. So not only can you be a shitty obvious spy, you can be a shitty obvious spy that keeps attacking the same location over and over again and make no attempt to think about what you're doing or even try. Isn't that just fun?
Oh and the other team. After the 5th time of killing your fake corpse and pumping in over 800 damage into you without actually killing you, basically everyone is going to want you to just quit and uninstall the game.
So it's actually annoying as shit and encourages you to play spy very obviously with no regard or thought for what you're doing.
Why is this in the game?
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No.1688
>and reliably escape from what is suppose to be your biggest counter in the game
A pyro either has to be really busy or really stupid to not be able to track a DR spy
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No.1689
op is just raging that he got killed by DR spy
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No.1691
I admire DR spies over minisentry engineers because they actually have to work for it to be super annoying. I think that the DR has made the spy interesting again, whenever I play spy (admittedly, pretty rarely) I switch it up between DR and Cloak and Dagger.
It's interesting though I find that the DR helps me with bad players whereas the Cloak and Dagger really helps me hide and get bigger chainstabs when there are more people.
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No.1692
>>1688If they don't have the spycicle? Yes. If they do? That 2 seconds of afterburn immunity will give you enough time to escape as long as you don't make it painfully obvious what direction you're escaping in.
>>1689Here's the funny thing. The particular DR spy that annoyed me? He
never actually killed me. He just kept running at me making it painfully obvious he was a spy until I'd hit him and trigger his DR, wasting my time trying to heal my team. No, the kind of spies that piss me off because they kill me are the ones that are proficient with YER. Meanwhile I actually like YER.
>>1691Running at the same location and not trying in the damndest to make it look like you're not a spy trying to backstab is "trying"?
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No.1700
>>1692Dr.Enforcicle is bad for reasons you have stated, but I wouldn't say that it's as bad as gunslingers. Even when I'm a class that's prey to spies, such as engineer, I still don't get too annoyed by them. I don't like that I can't pursue them, but they are rarely able to surprise me a second time. I still think the game would overall improve if the DR got a substantial nerf (cloak blinks like every other spy watch), or even just gets removed completely.
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No.1710
>>1683>How do you get you cloak? By being hit. So instead of being subtle and trying to not draw attention to yourself, it teaches you to be the most goddamn obvious spy in the entire fucking world and gives you a massive damage resistance so that you're not put back by your immense lack of skill.But everyone knows you're deadringing after they kill you if you just play how you describe. If you aren't terrible you will watch your back after you know a spy is deadringing.
Also, with how ridiculously loud the cloak is, if the spy close to you at all when they uncloak you instantly know they are around.
And if a pyro lights you on fire you're simply gone. If you choose to use the spycicle, sure you can survive a pyro, but you end up without a knife for longer than a respawn time. If you're fantastic with the amby this wont be a huge problem, but otherwise you might as well be useless.
The deadringer is only OP against completely incompetent players.
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No.1714
>>1710You'll notice I didn't say it was OP.
I said it was annoying as piss and teaches players to play worse.
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No.1717
>>1714I don't think it teaches players to play worse. Sure, it may be easier to use for a noob than the normal watch, but at a high level of play I don't think either watch really requires more skill than the other.
As for being annoying, I suppose thats pretty subjective. I've never found myself at all annoyed by deadringing spies, even when I know for a fact that they are deadringing. I get annoyed at plenty of stuff (minis, snipers, airblast, ect) but not DR.
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No.1718
>>1717I'd agree that it didn't teach players to be worse if the damage reduction on it was nerfed significantly. There is no reason for it to be better protection than a vaccinator uber.
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No.1723
>>1683If this is happening, the team trying to kill this spy is a bunch of babies.
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No.1724
>>1723It's during CTF where the people defending the briefcase are at a minimum and there's usually just a few engineers, sometimes a soldier or heavy, me as medic, and a few scouts running by. Occasionally there's a sniper but DR spies don't usually bother us when there's a sniper camping the intel, probably because of jarate.
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No.1726
>>1718What would you propose to change it to?
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No.1728
>>1726I'd say 50% is a good number. This is enough to get you away from one or two people unless they're really gunning to kill your ass dead, and is low enough that you can't just make yourself obvious to the entire enemy team and survive.
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No.1738
>>1728You couldn't even survive a sticky trap with like 3 stickies, or a charged headshot. Heavies would also kill you easily as fuck. And if you feign while under 50 health, a single scatter meatshot, direct rocket/pipe, amby/sniper headshot, a sticky, or 2 melee hits will kill you. The thing is suppose to be able to eat some spam to trade off from being really obvious when cloaking.
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No.1739
>>1738>Oh no, I can't survive things that would kill a full hp heavy or be able to survive powerful attacks at low health Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.1748
>>1739Why the fuck would anyone use it if the only advantage it had was 50% resistance? imho its one of the most well balanced alternatives to a stock weapon in the game. The DR is great for getting through areas of heavy spam, however stock is much better for more delicate and stealthy situations. With this nerf the DR would drop from a well balanced alternative to the worst watch in the game.
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No.1753
>>1748Here's an idea.
Don't play spy like he's a goddamn heavy. If you want to play a class that can take a lot of abuse, play the fucking heavy. If you need 90% resistance to damage to do something because the area is just so goddamn congested with damage, maybe spy isn't the class you should be playing.
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No.1759
>>1753But using the DR isn't playing spy like a heavy, it's playing spy like a spy using the dead ringer. This is what the weapon is meant for.
>If you need 90% resistance to damage to do something because the area is just so goddamn congested with damage, maybe spy isn't the class you should be playingOr maybe you should use the dead ringer
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No.1760
>>1724southern hospitality m8.
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No.1766
>>1759Or maybe you should learn how to play spy and get past people in a way other than brute tanking damage as what is suppose to be one of the frailest classes in the game.
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No.1771
>>1766>maybe you should learn how to play spy and get past people in a way other than brute tanking damageWhy?
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No.1780
>>1771No you make a compelling argument.
Let's make a sniper rifle that does critical damage on body shots while we're at it. I mean sure, you should probably play another class if you can't aim but that's just absurd, so let's give crits to every sniper instead.
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No.1782
>>1780That doesn't equate. What skill is it that you believe don't need when using the dead ringer compared to stock?
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No.1784
Dr. Enforcicles skill floor is still MUCH higher than Engy, Pyro, Heavy, Demo and Soldier.
The DR was nerfed hard multiple times and most classes can hardcounter it.
Many popular shitty maps require the DR (if you claim that Spy should be useless on most popular maps, fuck you, you just want to whine).
DR requires different skills, you have to rely much more on your gun, trickstabs and noncloaked hiding to get kills.
Many loadouts and weapons are shit, but no one ever complains about that trolldier ruining their experience by being useless, only complaints are about Dr. Enforcicle -> meaningless whine.
The DR or DR. Enforcicle both arent OP, Spy is a shit class.
TL,DR: Most classes have a lower skill floor and DR is balanced or too weak. Learn to play.
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No.1786
>>1784How is Dr. Enforicle high skill floor? You must be playing it wrong. Walk into the front lines, disguise as sniper, walk past enemy team, refill health and cloak, shoot them in the back, right click 4-8, and repeat. It's like a flanking scout that doesn't have to dodge to get away.
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No.1788
>>1782The act of subtly and stealth, as shown by the fact that dr fags think they actually need almost total damage reduction.
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No.1789
>>1788And you think that stock requires more "stealth" than the dead ringer? How much skill is really being used on "stealth" when you have 100% invisibility for 10 seconds? If anything it is much harder to have a convincing DR feign than to sneak past someone with the invis watch.
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No.1790
>>1789I think stock teaches you to have more stealth. DR teaches you to rely on a 90% damage reduction when you see trouble.
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No.1795
>>1790So? Stock teaches you to rely on invisibility whenever you see trouble.
And with DR, if you happen to run into an enemy during the 16 second recharge (which happens a lot due to the loud as fuck decloak sound), you are basically defenseless.
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No.1912
>>1786Spy is one of the most underpowered classes in the game.
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No.1953
>>1780The issue with that argument is that the Sydney Sleeper doesn't have headshots in the first place.
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