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File: d0796839779250d⋯.jpg (276.15 KB,890x1280,89:128,dukat with baseball.jpg)

63e4bd No.30837

I'm just finishing up my re-watch of DS9. Meaning of course I watched up to the penultimate episode of Season 6, then watched Siege of AR-558, It's Only a Paper Moon, and a couple filler episodes that I like. I think most of us here will agree that the plot-advancing episodes of Season 7, and the last part of Season 6, became very retarded very quickly. But, while what needs to go is pretty clear, what would you replace it with? Some starting points:

>S6: Waltz

Sisko and Dukat stranded together is an excellent concept for an episode, and the first part of it is set up well. Even the second part could mostly be kept as-is, if the end of the episode includes a bit of self-awareness. Rather than it being nothing more than the baste black guy heroically outsmarting the crazy hallucinating evil alt-right bigot, make it more clear that all Sisko really did is exploit and manipulate a mentally ill man for his own indulgence, going far beyond what was necessary for him to secure his own safety. Also, when Sisko discovers that the beacon is really offline, it would be far more in-character for Dukat to off-handedly apologize, briefly explain his reasoning, then continue on with the conversation, instead of chimping out.

>You really must forgive my duplicity in this matter, Captain. But, I think we should consider this a blessing in disguise. If you had known the transmitter was off-line, we wouldn't be having this enlightening conversation right now.

<Sisko visibly prepared to nog rage

>Have no fear, captain. As soon as we have concluded our little chat, I fully intend to re-activate your transmitter, and your friends can pick you up in good time.

After he's gotten what he's needed, or it's clear that Sisko isn't talking, Dukat will activate the transmitter while Sisko sleeps, then leaves in the shuttle.

>S6: Reckoning

Remove this episode and replace it with some filler episode from the cutting room floor. Kosst Amojan is stupid, the anime-tier battle of the energy beams was stupid, there's nothing redeemable to be found in the script. The Pah-wraiths shouldn't appear at all after The Assignment. In fact, let's do a quick ctrl+f of The Assignment's script and replace pah-wraiths with pah-wraith, so that viewers assume there was only one pah-wraith, and it got killed by O'Brien at the episodes' end. Obviously, this means every S7 episode that includes the wraiths has to get deleted and re-written.

>muh Prophets episodes

Sisko isn't half-Prophet, that's retarded. Neither is he secretly the creation of a 1950s nigger fiction author. Although even without the Pah-wraiths, the Prophets should have some, albeit less major, role in the finale, as they are a major part of the series. A better way to do it would be to make it more about tensions between the wormhole ayys and secular concerns, i.e. Starfleet. Perhaps Starfleet admiralty would demand that if Sisko wants to keep his posting on DS9, he needs to renounce the title of Emissary and any relationship to the Prophets. When this conflict comes to a head, Sisko will eventually choose to resign his commission, finally stop being uncomfortable about his role as Emissary, and retire to a house/restaurant that he builds on Bajor.

>Klingons, Gowron, Martok, Worf

Gowron shouldn't suddenly start making reckless attacks and being retarded, as there's no need for Martok to replace him as Chancellor. Here's what I propose instead: the Sons of Mogh episode never happened, and Kern never got his memory wiped. He's slowly been working his way back to relevance, and has become one of Gowron's most trusted advisors, despite having no House of his own. Kern has a deep-seated resentment for Worf because of his selfish actions in The Way of the Warrior, in which he put his own honor before that of his family. The two have some nice arguments with one another about honor, duty, and other Klingon things. Eventually, as the season comes to an end, Worf comes to Gowron asking for forgiveness, and asks for him to restore the House of Mogh. But, there's one condition: Worf will renounce any claim he has to the house of Mogh, and Kern will reign as its leader. Worf, who by this point has been chastised by his brother, will agree, because he does not feel that he is worthy of father's name anymore. He keeps his position in the House of Martok. Kern will gain some grudging respect for his ex-brother, but there's still no love lost between them.

>Dukat

I'm not sure about this one. Perhaps, after seeing what the Dominion are doing to his own people, Dukat is the one to lead the Cardassian resistance rather than Damar?

____________________________
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9a0520 No.30838

Invidious embed. Click thumbnail to play.

DS9 needs a Season 8 to really fix what was rushed heavily at the end. guess who appears at 1:12?

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dd1bbb No.30845

In all fairness, the fully serialized show at the end was something relatively new, not in general (Sopranos, etc.) but for this very genre. I think the last nine episodes and the six Dominion war episodes were as good as they could pull it off with a relatively low budget and making stuff up as they go. I don't mind the last nine episodes as much as others on here, although it is carried mostly by the villains and the writers were never comfortable with that, which is why they ruined Dukat in the end as well because they felt uncomfortable with someone being cheered upon at conventions who is a character that was written as a fascist. Today, in the age of Game of Thrones and friends, this is rather silly considering how many villains are celebrated as great characters in pop culture because they are villains, not because the fans think bashing people's heads in with a baseball bat with barbwire around it is actually a good thing. But we are dealing with Star Trek here, everything has to be lovey-dovey in the end, even if it's DS9.

I guess I just have a couple of points I'd have changed:

>scrap the mental illness of Dukat

>reduce the prophet ex machina appearances

>scrap the Pah-Wraiths

>have Kai Wynn betraying Bajor is okay but please don't have her date Dukat, and for God's sake write an Oscar winning actress some goddamn good lines

>stop it with the Weyoun clones, Weyoun 6 is fine

>make the Odo's love a romantic tragedy that is never realised, because it feels out of character for Kira to date Pro

>develop Kira's fucked up attraction to Dukat that is abandoned too quickly (probably because it would be too psychoanalytically disturbing for a ST show)

>find a better ending for the Section 31 storyline and have Bashir betray his ideals

>introduce a Romulan main character in Sisko's team, or just keep the Romulan officer in the first Defiant episode on board

>reintroduce the band of Jem'Hadar who managed to get off the White and conclude their story properly

>don't be afraid to kill another main character and not just Jadzia (only because she wanted to leave the show and only to replace her with the exact same type of character)

>why is the founder constantly in Odo's type of shape when she could mimic a proper face?

Basically this and then find another ending for the prophet story and put Dukat in the Dominion story and merge them in the end.

But can you imagine how DS9 could look like if it had the budget of STD or The Expanse?

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eef5c5 No.30846

>>30837

>S6: Waltz

Agreed. It might be better to have it be a legit Dukat and Sisko 'Enemy Mine' episode, where ultimately the difference between them is shown with more subtlety, like there are indigenous aliens that Dukat begins exploiting while Sisko is horrified by his actions, and it leads to a schism over the shared shuttlecraft.

>Sisko isn't half-Prophet, that's retarded.

It was an odd decision, and it made the Prophets seem stupid, where picking Sisko seemed mysterious, as if they were in tune with Fate and shit.

>Gowron shouldn't suddenly start making reckless attacks and being retarded

100% this. I find Martok to be one of the shittiest Klingons ever. Gowron had an awesome mix of crazy, cunning, and disarming honor.

>Dukat

>I'm not sure about this one. Perhaps, after seeing what the Dominion are doing to his own people, Dukat is the one to lead the Cardassian resistance rather than Damar?

I disagree on this. I like Damar's arc, although I'd have him live until confronting Weyoun and killing him, and while giving a speech of victory to his troops, he is shot by that crazed cardassian Dominion guy.

Having Dukat be ultimately evil is okay, but it should have been more subtle. Like he comes to see the Prophets as evil, and has some crazy gambit to destroy them based on an insane Cardassian superweapon which will also collapse the wormhole. Something where he takes over Deep Space 9 to turn it into a giant beam weapon while Sisko is attacking Cardassia Prime, and the last few episodes are Sisko trying to retake the station from him and his nausican mercenaries or some shit.

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63e4bd No.30850

>>30845

>In all fairness, the fully serialized show at the end was something relatively new, not in general (Sopranos, etc.) but for this very genre. I think the last nine episodes and the six Dominion war episodes were as good as they could pull it off with a relatively low budget and making stuff up as they go

Agreed, that's why I didn't try to change every little thing that bugged me. I was trying to limit myself to only change those areas where it seemed like the writers did a complete 180 from what was being built up in previous seasons, either because of asshurt (Dukat), delusions of grandeur (prophets/pah wraiths), or poor attempt at fanservice (Martok).

<introduce a Romulan main character in Sisko's team, or just keep the Romulan officer in the first Defiant episode on board

I believe that was the original plan, but the character was dropped without comment. Most likely answer is that the actress made a big deal about pay, and was dropped.

<why is the founder constantly in Odo's type of shape when she could mimic a proper face?

Why would she want to look like a filthy goy solid? She's a changeling, she doesn't want anyone around her to forget that fact for even a moment, so she adopts a shape that is very obviously changeling.

>>30846

>I find Martok to be one of the shittiest Klingons ever.

I don't think that's completely fair. He's no Gowron, to be sure, but there's nothing wrong with having a dwarf-stereotype character as long as you don't pretend he's something other than that. Especially considering this is before the LotR movies with Gimli, and thus before the large number of Gimli copycats we saw after the fact.

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ad8764 No.30852

>>30850

>I don't think that's completely fair.

I dislike how the show began to suck his dick about what a great Klingon he was. He should have been Worf's loud friend who commanded a ship, while Gowron was the leader. On the list of Klingons, he's pretty low. He's below Chang, Gowron, Kor, Kang, Koloth, Gorkon, Kern…basically almost every Klingon ever.

>before the large number of Gimli copycats we saw after the fact

Gimli strikes me as an existing stereotype character. I would say the Gimli types are all Dwarf/Klingon expys

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c9005e No.30858

>>30850

>I believe that was the original plan, but the character was dropped without comment. Most likely answer is that the actress made a big deal about pay, and was dropped.

I never understand why we've never gotten a Romulan as part of the main cast. TNG introduced a Klingon as a bridge officer which were the main enemies before, DS9 had Odo, Garak, Kira and Quark (all different kinds of aliens, most of them belonging to a villian species), VOY had a fucking Borg drone carry the show after season 4, so why the fuck didn't we get a Romulan? It would have been so much fun to see a Romulan with their psychotic arrogance, paranoia and totalitarian charme trying to integrate into Federation society. I always thought of the Romulans as being smiler to the dark elves (Dunmer) in the Elder Scrolls, which is by far the most interesting race in the franchise as well. I'm a bit of a Romulanboo but the only big installation that dealt with them, Nemesis, portrayed them as absolute cucks.

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c9005e No.30859

>>30852

Gimli as a character and character type existed long before the LotR movies.

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47dcc3 No.30860

>>30859

Gimli in the books is different from the movies. He isn't clownish or comic relief.

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f91a68 No.30862

>>30858

All the explanations I can think of (e.g. that they wanted a great power kept as a "wildcard" rather than reconciling them with the Feds like they did the Klingons et al.) fall flat because they destroyed them in Nemesis then immediately killed them off in nu-canon with that retarded-in-every-way supernova.

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dd2a02 No.30867

>>30860

True, but the point still stands.

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f924fe No.30868

>>30859

He existed yes, but that archetype didn't become popular and ingrained into normie thought until after the LotR movies.

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fb4ee8 No.30880

Then we slowly pan in on Benny Russell's snowglobe, revealing that it contains… Deep Space 9.

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34c5d0 No.30884

>>30880

Don't even joke about that.

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566752 No.30895

>>30838

Nice, theatrical release through fathom. Buying my ticket now

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566752 No.30897

>>30850

>but there's nothing wrong with having a dwarf-stereotype character as long as you don't pretend he's something other than that

We need a new star trek show with Peter Dinklage as a Klingon warrior that has to defend his honor whenever a height joke is cracked. Dwarfs and little people are grossly underrepresented in star trek, even among alien species. It's about time we get a dwarf-klingon with spikey knuckles and fast moves that doesn't fight honorably and uses lots of nut shots because that's only what's kept him alive so long.

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6ffc52 No.30914

File: 879f4f645b8e9bc⋯.gif (1.21 MB,327x251,327:251,DeadFixedAfricanmolesnake-….gif)

>>30897

The 60s were the high-water mark of little-people acceptance in cinema. How far we have fallen.

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aa8719 No.30940

>>30880

I found this unreasonably funny.

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aa8719 No.30971

File: d23a3e39f81c2b3⋯.jpg (177.52 KB,768x1053,256:351,serveimage.jpg)

I know that everyone dislikes what they did about Dukat, but what about Kai Winn? Especially since she was portrayed by Louise Fletcher, she shouldn't have been anything short of sinister, but they made her out to be misguided and foolish at the end.

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63e4bd No.30973

>>30971

I'd agree, Winn's character was taking an interesting turn in the mid seasons but they did a full 180 with her in "Reckoning" which only got worse in Season 7. I don't think most people would disagree with you, but the problem is that Winn is at her best when she's an unlikeable bitch that the audience loves to hate. An unlikeable character getting fucked up tends to be overshadowed when the most likeable, interesting """""villain""""" in the damned Quadrant is getting criminally insulted at the same time.

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a0426e No.30988

>>30880

You know there was a prop made for that right?

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9b4003 No.30989

Reminder that DS9 turned into literal Indiana Jones in the end, because bajewrans just can't resist living their demented fantasies of everyone else being hellspawn.

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fb4ee8 No.30994

>>30971

I liked the idea that underneath all the fanaticism she actually did mean well, I mean what did she do wrong REALLY

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5635b0 No.30995

>>30994

>I mean what did she do wrong REALLY

She didn't believe in her ideals enough to get her hands dirty. In the first episode in which she was introduced, she found a useful idiot wrinklenose to make the bomb and kill Bareil for her, and take the fall when she was caught. And in general, whether it was the treaty with Cardassia, or the Kai election, she was consistently very careful to make sure other poeple took all of the risk while she captured as much of the credit. You could make the argument that that sort of shameless realpolitik is admirable, and to an extent I would agree. But in answer to the question "what did she do wrong" you can plausibly say that she wasn't willing to take the risk she made her lackeys take, which is a character weakness.

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feb543 No.30996

>>30995

She also tossed Dukat out when he was blind and poisoned him.

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655424 No.31009

>>30996

They never really explained how Dukat got his sight back. My bet is that he banged every Bajoran woman out there until blood went from his dick to his eyes.

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90748b No.31583

>>30897

>Pe'ter, son of Dinklage, as a the angry Klingon master of the spiked knuckleduster groin shot

I am weirdly OK with this as long as he doesn't become the shows comic relief, and I don't think I'm OK with that.

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226976 No.31601

>>30837

>outsmarting the crazy hallucinating evil alt-right bigot

Dukat and 'classic' Cardassia are more akin to Fascism which is really more of an extreme small-c conservatism than national socialism and the ideologies based upon it.

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14349c No.31619

>>31601

Cardassia is a stratocracy.

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9581b7 No.31749

File: 6052029dc044517⋯.jpg (198.99 KB,1920x1080,16:9,truckerdukat.jpg)

>>31009

>My bet is that he banged every Bajoran woman out there until blood went from his dick to his eyes.

Well, he does know what a woman wants.

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d9650b No.31986

reminder that dukat did nothing wrong

dukar becoming a space demon was a founder false flag

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9239e7 No.32057

There is no such thing as disloyalty in Cardassia, only degrees of failure to the State.

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