628bda No.207295[Last 50 Posts]
Considering the lack of quality on this board, I thought that I should create this general. This board need it, in my opinion. Even if only a few anons participate, I still want to recreate that sense of learning that many of us use to enjoy on 8chan/pol/.
This would be a thread to present arguments, questions, statements and post literature pertaining to philosophy. This could create a dialogue between anons.
Philosophy is broad, so it can include subjects like politics, metaphysics, ethics, logic, sociology, natural sciences, religion/theology, consciousness, epistemology, etc.
I can start: You can choose to ignore this and post what you like instead
>Is morality objective?
____________________________
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1a126c No.207296
>Is morality objective?
If you're a Jew.
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628bda No.207305
>>207296
How come, anon? Can you elaborate?
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1a126c No.207306
>>207305
Jewish identity can not exist without Jewish persecution. In one breath the Jew will say that Anti-Semitism is an immoral position grounded in bigotry and in the next he will purposely create Anti-Semitism to achieve some political or social agenda. One Jew will larp as a Nazi so other Jews may complain about Nazi persecution to receive special protections and privilege. Morality for the Jew is nothing more than a racket.
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628bda No.207309
>>207306
Just because the Jews are amoral, that doesn't mean that morality does not exist objectively.
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1a126c No.207310
>>207309
For humans morality exists objectively, but Jews aren't humans.
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628bda No.207370
>>207310
I'm confused. You now say that morality exists objectively for everyone, except Jews. This conflicts with what you said here >>207296
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1a126c No.207371
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>207370
I said that morality objectively exists among humans and that Jews lack morality because they aren't humans.
>video related
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9227d6 No.207373
Oh goodie … a bunch of wanna-be /pol/tards take Philo 101 and try to prove they're smarter than the other /pol/tards.
[-]
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1a126c No.207374
>>207373
Contribute to the discussion.
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1a126c No.207375
>>207370
>>207296
I read your question wrong. Thought it was "subjective." Sorry I haven't slept.
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de8ad1 No.207435
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f93b4d No.207443
>>207295
>Is morality objective?
Morality is human necessity for building a perfect order, that strives from our idea of perfect Good. The perfect Good is given by its examples in nature, each according to principles played on in development of cosmos, laws of physics, chemical structures and living beings. Opposition of morality is disorder that strives from opposition to principles that developed functional life.
Life, and reproduction of life can be an example of product of perfect Good, whatever is good for preserving life is morally just because living things ultimately are in debt for being alive. Food, Water, Light and Heat are necessities for living beings, mammals and humans, provision of those necessities to prolong life is seen as Good at its basic condition, as well as sharing necessities with one another, in hive structured societies developing stable conditions for living.
Morality brings extra flavor to mere necessities because it questions where living conditions can be improved without expense of life of others, in order for us not to consume each other, but contribute to perfect order in desire to reduce consummation of each other's necessities and produce constant growth of our physical spheres of habitation and intellectual qualities under lack of worry about basic needs. Wisdom is only developed where morality prevails. That includes austerities such as non-violence, lack of desire of extra luxury, decreased need for possession of wealth and emotional love to strengthen desire to provide for each other's necessities without consuming extra in return. In order for living beings to provide perfect condition to each other temporary life they have to learn how to restrict themselves, how to give and how to restraint yourself with what we call "charity and compassion" according to emotional outlook on preserving living conditions of others at acceptable state.
There are two ways we do it, forced and emotional responsibility. Forced states usually generate Commie societies and equivalents of Greek Sparta, where development of disciplinary values is contributed to governing agent, with punishments for non-compliance to the strict social norms. Emotional responsibility through establishment of religion and moral values expressed by educational facilities are laxative and find themselves caught up in inner strive within envious social classes that are under illusion that they have no requirement of moral responsibility under frame of freedom to be compliant or not. Especially if they have lack trust in the system that developed itself upon dubious foundations that don't seem to be expressing contribution to living necessities (e.g. myth about miracle worker or praising of unhealthy behavior). Both cases lead to nowhere unless fundamental necessity of contributing to society is expressed with pure logic according to intellectual level of society. When people are motivated by something they can see, account for, and able to explain as necessary source of their own responsibility and contribution towards.
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a2d640 No.207453
>>207443
>morality is a necessity
Morality restricts physical freedom through emotional policing or physical coercion.you are advocating for a psychocivilized society where every man,woman and child has a stimoceiver(mind control device which emits an electrical signal in a specific part of the brain to control people, designed for the good of everybody of course!) embedded in their brain to reduce their freedom
In the not so distant future companies will pressure their employees to get mind control devices to turn them into workaholics, babies would be artificially created or genetically modified to suit certain specifications (docile,hard-working,obedient,caring etc)
A "useless class" will also form with the increase in artificial intelligence taking away jobs.The system has no need for mindless consumers(poor ones. The rich ones are lulled away from the war and bloodshed by complex entertainment features)therefore the system will hunt and kill every single one of them while advocating for peace and freedom
Science fiction? This is our future and its happening right now (neuralink,progression in the field of gene editing,Increase in the use of A.I,Anime shows,brainwashing techniques like mkultra and project artichoke.)
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9822a7 No.207476
>>207453
Bee does what's good for the hive. We're all connected, you cannot exist apart from society because you're a product of that society functioning good enough to allow enough food and shelter for man and woman to form productive sexual union and not abort you out of lack of resources for living. In fact even strains of society working for preserving smaller parts of it participate in social engineering, hence why you don't have a facebook account, and don't browse tumblr, but here forever.
The only way you can quit dependence on society is by not producing offspring yourself and go "innawoods", become a recluse, live on what you can find and grow in the wilderness. And even that is legally impossible to achieve without having some money to afford a plot of land nowadays, than going to be a homeless criminal, for all land is property of the government. Not to mention if you dare to have no offspring, you'll be deemed a traitor to white race by people here, although nobody will admit most people here don't reproduce. But if you do what's then? You'll say you don't want society to be morally upright to not have right to ask for protection of your own children? It needs even more strict control over your offspring than it has right now because of degeneracy, and you say morality restricts freedom.
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628bda No.207515
>>207443
Is the perfect Good itself real or just a figment of our imaginations?
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daf480 No.207517
>>207295
First i will change the question to: knowing everything that the person thought and during a defined period of time, can we judge hes/her actions according to predifined rules, by infinite judges with the exact same verdict every time, awnser to this is yes, this in a sense is what a god is, a judge that judges you, and knows absolutely everything about you. now I will take a different take on this question, changing it to: given same external pressures, and a different groups of people that are isolated, would they by group evolution come to same conclusions about optimal morals in their enviorment, and the awnser is yes again! We can see among mountain people general lack of trust towoards other groups, among flatlans cultures increesed trust towoards other groups, among easy enviorment groups lot of sexual diviance, and among hard enviorment groups we see monogamy develop independantly, so YES, in this sense it is objective, among perceptive animals how i will define humans, morality is objective! Unless i messed the jist of the question?
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1248eb No.207540
>morality objective
this in itself is just post modernist and just lazy lol if you're going to try and start a thread about how you want intelligent post at least ask a good question.
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92bad3 No.207541
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
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628bda No.207544
>>207540
Like I said, you could just ignore my question and post something else.
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3df61a No.207609
>>207476
>bee does what is good for the hive
They do this because they want to ensure the survival of the bees.however if the same bee(human) were asked to participate in the survival of the hive(the system) which intended to destroy bees and replace them,the bee(human) must not participate in it so as to ensure the survival of bees by your principle
>society must function good for humans to reproduce
Take a look at liberia or burundi or any poor country and you will find that reproduction is not a hobby to be performed under good conditions. If that were not so then these nations would have collapsed ages ago as why would a starving person reproduce if their offspring were to suffer the same fate?
>can reduce dependance on society if you just go innawoods
Cant cut trees;cant hunt animals;cant do nothing practical except protest against deforestation with all the other braindead lefties who want muh equality(can never be achieved as no two humans are the same),reform movements against corruption(corruption creeps back sooner or later),against animal cruelty by people(but are blind against the corporations using them as guinea pigs for testing products like drugs,pesticides and the like)
>stricter control due to degeneracy
Kek.trying to prevent decadence in culture has always been a disaster.take rome in second b.c for example sumptuary laws were introduced to prevent the masses from decadence
But they failed spectacularly or take alcohol prohibition act, all it did was make the mafia stronger and strengthened political corruption
Trying to guide society is a no-brainer and no amount of control or resources can do that due to the complexity of the system
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ba20ed No.207615
>>207295
>Is morality objective?
No the exception proves the rule.
Is murder wrong?
How about if someone is going to kill you or one of your people?
There is nothing you can say is wrong that you can't provide a case where you can have an exception. Everything as far as morality stems from the trolley problem and whether you are an absolutist or you think the end justifies the means.
Everyone who isnt a midwit knows wisdom lies in practicing both and knowing where the lines should be drawn between which school of thought you exercise; utilitarian or consequentialist.
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628bda No.207684
>>207615
Morality can be objective and still allow for murder if it is just to do so.
>How about if someone is going to kill you or one of your people?
This does not disprove objective morality. In this situation, you would be killing him to protect yourself and others, and not out of malice or pleasure.
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9f6c50 No.207707
>>207684
>Morality can be objective
'can be objective' sounds like 'definitely maybe'
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a77335 No.207731
>>207515
If there was another intellectual creature on human level of development, it would also come to similar concept of good for its own survival and in accordance to universal laws. Most of platonic idea of order was established in imitation of celestial harmonic geometries, e.g. movements of planets. Sure tree requires water to be cultivated, but then yields its fruit for free. Hence idea of good is observed from nature and cosmic order aimed at preservation. Decay and disorder aren't figment of imagination.
>>207609
>Take a look at liberia or burundi or any poor country
>why would a starving person reproduce
Lack of education in sexual restraint and usage of condoms, absence of feminism, sex being only "hobby" to have because of lack of other kinds of leisure after work aside of spending a bed time with your wife. Poor people also cling together more willingly, so wife doesn't complain she has a working husband, since she doesn't want to starve and has a home at all, she'll be completely obedient. That pops babies out very quickly.
>braindead lefties
The people you speak of dependent on society the most. Maybe there's some sympathy because they can't imagine life outside of cities, so they want equality because view already available leisure as ultimate form of living well.
>alcohol prohibition act
This needs a good religion to boost aside of popular governmental opinion, government cannot ban alcohol completely, not because of mafia, but because western countries depend on two things that don't make up good order:
1. Ability to freely express insults towards government and its decisions
2. Main established religion keeps using alcohol as part of its rites, so it remains justified among emotion of the crowd
Free speech needs to be thrown out of the window if you want intoxicating drugs to be thrown out of your country. And country transformed to have emotional disdain for alcohol, in order to appear good in the eyes of all intellectuals like Uddalaka Aruni was proud of his kingdom:
>‘Within my realm there is no thief, no miser, no drinker of wine, no man without a sacred fire, no dunce, no lecher, no whore!
And also:
>trying to prevent decadence in culture has always been a disaster
People fail all the time when it comes to social purity. Whole point is to never stop trying, eventually it'll work.
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4e1edf No.207742
>>207295
>I can start: You can choose to ignore this and post what you like instead
Ill, start by ignoring your last post
>recreate that sense of learning
nigger, no one here from then has anything to learn or philosophically argue.
>Is morality objective?
It is literally subjective you goddamn illiterate mong, which is not to say that both its psychosocial affects that are evidenced within different variations of moral standards and cultures have corresponding impacts on further developments and habitual trajectories, and resultant bio and eco effectuations of said trajectories actualized, aren't legitimately connected through interdisciplinary study as you intended to obfuscate, or we're just too fucking retarded and educated to fathom. This is my case for your morality faggot, I pity you and desire for you to learn as I would want unto myself, so I respond in kind relative to the effort and energy you and I applied to create this discussion. This discussion is motivated by intention, motive, morals, and ideal of self repressed projected and recieved all in that order simultaneously in our minds' and consecutively on this digital horse fuckers 3d modelling fansite forum. Morally then, I care about your morals but not in the same way as mine and so our outcomes both within that progression internally and externally will oscillate untill we consolidate a moral imperative between us absolving the gap between a necessary binding of identity, or dissolve all interaction unto eventual forced conflict.
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71f263 No.207744
>>207295
>>207296
>>207443
>>207453
>>207540
>>207609
>>207615
>>207731
Utterly fascinating.
I've died many times and can verify that morality is just as objective to the extreme as anarchy is the purist form of democracy.
Many here argue if not by one than by the other only on grounds of relative perception.
Many here argue technicalities of things that are completely made up and do not exist.
It is simply as it always was. If man performs some action, expression, or thought and it's effect is by some means ill or bad; how is that not objective???
If a man is of one reality and another man be of a different one, in this way the severity of a bad outcome can be subjectively different, but still yet be obviously bad. This is called relative.
Morality is a made up series of extensions. Many are a fantasy, culture, identity, etc.
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4e1edf No.207753
>>207744
checked
> If man performs some action, expression, or thought and it's effect is by some means ill or bad; how is that not objective?
Jesus christ, If you're implying theirs a difference in connectivity in time, or then that objectivity has any meaning at all, you contradicted youself. Show me the objects of your personalized custom perception as an object I can obtain without your subjective attainments niggerfaggot. Try to clarify what you said with difing particularly what the exact difference is between subject and object. It's a big road, and it might take a big guy, for you.
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4e1edf No.207760
>>207753
to be fair time is a diffusion of past and future potentialities unto a constant transmophisizing conscious consolidation of varying energetic densities from higher to lower planes measured by their relative difference in tangibility, and we do reincarnate, but the devil's advocate must be present with the devil himself, particularly amongst a broad audience, would you agree?
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71f263 No.207766
>>207753
Wringing the idea of individual vs. group is no different than using lexicon to confuse one's perception of time when asking which came first the chicken or the egg…
>>207760
Audience makes no difference to a slave as we are subject to reality and not the other way around. It (whatever that means) is either real or not. It just happens to be that real is in a constant state of change and humans above all else are most incapable of managing extremes. Keep in mind that self-control isn't real either.
The primary mechanism of self-control in the wild is, of course, death.
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628bda No.207768
>>207707
Maybe so, but I was trying to be devil’s advocate.
>>207731
Sounds interesting, anon.
>Most of platonic idea of order was established in imitation of celestial harmonic geometries, e.g. movements of planets
Can you explain this?
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71f263 No.207770
>>207760
I will double up as well by doubling down that the only real control or check at all is death. The end, literally.
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4e1edf No.207773
>>207766
individual/collective are distinctly seperate from subject and object (check K. wilbers consolidations b4 they jewed him, a concise relatively modern perspective in this)
>>207766
You replied to my post with separate posts together, I will fuck your dialectic mother in both cheeks at one time if you ever fucking try it again faggot.
>hurr slave, hurr otherwise. You are convincing me more so that you are a jew unwilling or unable to see blatant facts set before what your inquisition requested.
>a slave as we are subject to reality
Telling regarding previous discussion in regards to terminology, semiotics and history. But yes we are subject to reality.
>It (idk) is what again?
lol
>and humans above all else are most incapable of managing extremes
lemmer guess, a human convinced you of that, while you were transcendentally observing the universe 10 minutes ago without need for any hoomans.
>Keep in mind that self-control isn't real either.
wew..
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4e1edf No.207775
>>207770
> The end, literally
Lmao. If you didnt know already, you're here forever. Forever is the time you hold and let go of negro, take some grains of that salt you been missing out on.
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6d2ef0 No.207810
>>207731
> human beings reproduce for the maintenance of their race but are exploited by powerful people
Exactly.none of us asked to be born and if you look closely at how the system works you will find that the rich exploits the poor.we are all either cannon fodder for the rich or a cheap source of labour and people give zero fucks whether the child will like being a slave.so they brainwash it and tell it to obey laws and fit into the social mould
What is even more infuriating is that the system breaks these cute and cuddly values when it is profitable for them. They even justify war overseas with "fighting for freedom" (freedom is an abstract word and for different people it means different things)
The rest of your post is about taking away free speech and banning things which YOU see as degeneracy.drugs and alcohol are just methods for coping /adapting. If you were to take them away either huge amounts of people who cant cope will rope(suicide) or crime and rioting will reach astronomical levels leading to the death of the system which is not a bad outcome and might be better than mind control or designer babies.
Same goes for porn they are only methods for coping with depression or not having a girlfriend.you also mentioned about enacting a new religion to help them cope thereby establishing that religions are for control and not for spirituality
Also you make it seeem as if morality is an end in itself but it is not.whats next after every human being becomes "civilized" ? Nope you will find some other excuse to invade the other thinking faculties under the hood of"preventing degeneracy" or "for your own good"
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397869 No.207814
>>207810
>The rest of your post is about taking away free speech and banning things which YOU see as degeneracy
Authoritarians need to be fucking gassed.
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ead0f5 No.207822
>>207768
>Can you explain this?
Read Plato yourself ( https://1lib.us/book/2074666/631f38 ). Why do you think he had “Let no one ignorant of geometry enter here.” sign above his place? Harmony of the spheres used to be compared to music and what drives the soul since Pythagoras ( https://1lib.us/book/1306383/227e97 ). Plato just expanded upon it.
From Ion:
>That’s how it is with the Corybantes, who have sharp ears only for the specific song that belongs to whatever god possesses them; they have plenty of words and movements to go with that song; but they are quite lost if the music is different.
From Timaeus:
>Nor would it need feet or any support to stand on. In fact, he awarded it the movement suited to its body—that one of the seven motions which is especially associated with understanding and intelligence.
From Phaedo:
>But you must change your opinion, my Theban friend, said Socrates, if you still believe that a harmony is a composite thing, and that the soul is a kind of harmony of the elements of the body in a state of tension, for surely you will not allow yourself to maintain that a composite harmony existed [b] before those elements from which it had to be composed, or would you?
Epinomis:
>And so it is the height of folly and absurdity to say that the things in the heavens have arisen through the agency of anything else and are not the products of both soul and body, as we hold.
If you want something really extensive on the subject, try Proclus (neoplatonist of late antiquity) on Euclid elements, that tackle relationship of limit and unlimited according to geometrical theorems:
https://1lib.us/book/5264379/6ec6ef
With his elements of theology as a required book for comprehending the perspective:
https://1lib.us/book/1235915/2bf749
Which is heavily inspired by concepts laid on by Plotinus in his Enneads:
https://1lib.us/book/3512648/879038
Some books on Pythagoras:
https://1lib.us/book/890076/de639b
>>207810
>drugs and alcohol are just methods for coping /adapting
All men deserve to be coping intellectually by utilizing their inner distress as a way to propel intellectual elevation in search of meaning. It both kills any sort of depression and eventually arrives man at state of non-differentiation for the contingents in temporary condition he's in. But at worst, cling to family, then at least you're contributing to producing a replacement of yourself if you yourself fail. Not to any intoxicating drugs (of which porn and video games are also just as bad).
>morality is an end in itself but it is not.whats next after every human being becomes "civilized" ?
The Ubermensch. And not only in this life.
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628bda No.207959
>>207822
Thanks for the books.
>The Ubermensch. And not only in this life
How can you believe in Platonism and in the
Nietzschean Ubermensch at the same time?
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bb630b No.207994
>>207959
Concept of human becoming an angel is perfect example of Ubermensch. They aren't in discord with one another. Just because Nietzche is so narrow minded he couldn't contemplate concepts of God outside of jewish religions and time, doesn't mean he didn't repeat other people (for how can someone who is never born - die, for where's no beginnings there's also no ends).
Platonism focuses on development of immortal soul through generations of rebirths in order to develop it to godhood. E.g. for humanity to become godlike above its human condition, from Phaedrus:
>For just this reason it is fair that only a philosopher’s mind grows wings, since its memory always keeps it as close as possible to those realities by being close to which the gods are divine. A man who uses reminders of these things correctly is always at the highest, most perfect level of initiation, and he is the only one who is perfect as perfect can be. He stands outside human concerns and draws close to the divine; ordinary people think he is disturbed and rebuke him for this, unaware that he is possessed by god.
And:
>After death, when they have grown wings and become weightless, they have won the first of three rounds in these, the true Olympic Contests. There is no greater good than this that either human self-control or divine madness can offer a man.
Ubermensch implies necessity of rising human standard in this world and biological/corporeal evolution of mankind:
>Man is something that is to be surpassed. What have ye done to surpass man?
>All beings hitherto have created something beyond themselves: and ye want to be the ebb of that great tide, and would rather go back to the beast than surpass man?
>What is the ape to man? A laughing-stock, a thing of shame. And just the same shall man be to the Superman: a laughing-stock, a thing of shame.
This last line stolen directly from Heraclitus:
>The handsomest ape is uglier than the ugliest man. The wisest man is less wise, less beautiful than a god: the distance from ape to man is that from man to god.
But Heraclitus also said the following:
>Gods become men; men become gods, the one living the death of the other, the other dying the life of the one.
>There are gods here, too.
Both concept of becoming an Ubermensch and becoming an angel are the same, its just it requires understanding that neither body without soul, nor soul without body can bring double development into human perfection. Perfect body and perfect soul require double the sacrifice. For reverse condition is equally animalistic.
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de8ad1 No.208094
>>Kek.trying to prevent decadence in culture has always been a disaster.take rome in second b.c for example sumptuary laws were introduced to prevent the masses from decadence
>>But they failed spectacularly or take alcohol prohibition act, all it did was make the mafia stronger and strengthened political corruption
Prohibition was doomed to failure because it dealt wiht the symptoms without dealing with the fundamental disease. If you have pneumonia with a fever and a cough we can numb your cough reflex with cough syrup and lower your fever with anti fever medications. But you're still deathly ill because the cause is active within you. Antibiotics destroy the cause.
It's the same with booze. You can have booze in society but you can't have the jew. The jew is the virus.
You have to remove the virus and then the symptoms are almost irrelevant.
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4e1edf No.208342
>>207994
>Just because Nietzsche is so narrow minded
Am I to be considered or shall I consider myself flawed, shallow, or neutered among those of who's judgement I rely for the progression of a character and hand that are tentatively and experimentally known?
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4e1edf No.208344
>>208342
btw Nietzsche's retarded.
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4e1edf No.208345
>>208344
simple as: fuck niggers and kikes if you forgot, faggots. Also fuck glownogs, been waiting, you outta shekels of late?
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628bda No.208555
>>207994
Thanks for the replies.
I really need to brush up on all of this shit.
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48d28c No.208714
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9b3107 No.208749
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88daee No.209667
cbMGDgfbLMI YDK eKHvXoJfvmP qhbl Faum PBqAbTTiBk iAl kYWgoShLotn
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b63f82 No.209706
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963f83 No.209719
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da0999 No.210317
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ae563f No.210321
EibyYVg uRgeuViGi zKWdWTtWostq pzbrRRtinOY RYfhwsSJclB Nbo tJgOnYiI
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ea39a6 No.211280
FFSfwokqa DGhk ngtxGvnETZka hHb yGQoyYZ JHqx MfHEls zky wSfckywXX hzow ByeJb FiRQFLYz pYTrgm GqoFsjyEWhpA tCYoets RBxoOlyFwaLX rYQlKRiTC mBjMJipetsMm KqBMGBUqY RsFTLUzBrpS
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