/philosophy/ - Philosophy

>>3246

I mean if you want to think about it like that way

But it's just a little tradition, no need to abolish it just because it makes some kids a little dull

>>3246

As a matter of fact, I do.

Learning that people can lie, especially trusted ones, is a rather harsh step of growing up, and maybe begnin lies like Santa Claus are a way to weaken the impact of that realisation when time comes (I mean, who here hasn't figured out Father Christmas was a fiction at 12 tops? Nowadays with the internet probably at 7 or so, too). But I have seen WAY to many adults double down on the lie, inventing elaborate stories and tales that they explicitly refer to as reality - unlike the implicit fictionality present in, say, fairytales. My own parents actually tried to dissuade my skepticism at first. Why do they do that? Is it because they falsly assume that presents mean less when coming from the parents? Or is it like you suspect that they do it for themselves, perhaps revelling in some way in the idea that children can actually authentically believe something like Santa Claus to be real? Either way, it's willful deception that doesn't serve an obvious purpose and that alone makes me question why it's something so culturally accepted. It's not like the commercialisation of the holidays would be threatened or anything.

Though I suppose some find it a nice harmless ritual, I really can't see the appeal.

>>3246

>>3250

>deceive children into believing in santa claus

You can only deceive people who think. Beliefs are not deceptions if the believer never really thought about it and demanded justification. Kids aren't deceived into believing Santa Claus or religion, it is the fact that they don't think at all which makes children vulnerable to bullshit.

That being said, the whole myth of Santa Clause is something the vast majority of kids get over by the time of 4 or 5 in the modern world. That's not because their parents reveal anything, rather the kids just think it through and realize that it's clearly a lie. The difference from this and pseudoscience and dogmatic (religious and scientific) beliefs isn't even deception, it's that these beliefs are the foundation, the axioms, of further thinking if there is any at all, and they are quite unhelpful when applied in the wrong ways and bodies of knowledge. Deception occurs around these fundamental beliefs since they are the ground of worldviews and are not easily questionable in that these beliefs often constitute very big aspects of our self-conceptions.

tl;dr: Kids aren't stupid. Most figure it out, and I don't know a single person irl that really cared when they figured it out.

>>3257

Your whole post revolves on hierarchies of beliefs which are not universal, nor are they foundational. Coming from a third world country, I never believed it. Why? Because I was fucking poor and never got anything, I realized that it was just the family. Did seeing other kids get stuff make me upset? You bet, but not because of Santa not being real, but because the expectation is that gifts= how much your parents care about you, a social conception and an actual delusion.

I lived the second half of my childhood in the 1st world, and my little sister always got gifts. She never really believed it either, nobody really tries to hide it in hispanic culture. Your issue is, if it exists at all, a U.S. white issue.

Realizing that Santa is a lie is in no way even in the same category as coming to realize your religion's doctrines can't possibly be true. That is the loss of what you had thought was the unquestionable and absolute foundation of your life in this world. THAT is truly traumatizing.

tl;dr: Normal people have bigger and more serious issues than the myth of Santa. If anything, anyone who sees this as an issue is unquestionably fucked up in their own way already.

>>3262

I forgot to add, the child probably assumes Santa gifts to the third world rather equally, because kids have especially limited geographical knowledge. The charity drives for the poor Americans/Africans which ordinary parents, schools and churches talk about around Christmas time, make universal philanthropy appear more probable. If your parents are helping the poor, then supernatural super powerful Santa could do even more.

>>3255

Surely children believe or are even convinced that Santa is a real being. They might not question it - and might easily come to dismiss it if they would (though, as religion demonstrates, not necessarily) - but that doesn't mean they don't think. Their rationale might just be something like "I'm reliant on my parents and they know more than me" or thoughts like "why would they lie to me, especially when they seemingly have nothing to gain". When you say they don't think, it seems like you are referring specifically to their critical faculties, which is something you can really only resort to once you feel your dependency on others for source of information to be negligible. This is obviously not the case for most children.

4 or 5 is very early to get over it, by the way. In my parts (central Europe) the myth is cultivated and 'playfully' enforced up to the age of 10, and even then parents pussyfoot around the subject because they don't want children to discover the truth any other way than by themselves.

>>3258

>anyone who sees this as an issue is unquestionably fucked up in their own way already

Firstly, I do consider it something of an issue, even if it is a minor one.

Secondly, you were the one to bring up religion. Obviously, religious indoctrination (not necessarily deception, if only because partents tend to themseves believe what they espouse) is more deep-rooted and serious than the cultural tradition of openly and often half-assedly talking about Santa as a real person. That doesn't mean deliberately lying to children - even if some of them see through the lie with relative ease (making the custom even more stupid imo) - is suddenly not an issue at all.

You just made up a ridiculous hypothetical scenario that nobody suffers. If you want a discussion either bring up a relevant and real problem or just switch gear to the related problem of dogma and religious thinking as constituting self-conception.

>>3295

And don't grow up with father figures. Or get married.