39cc68 No.372001 [View All]
Sometimes all we need to read is a little encouragement by a kindred spirit.
This board has amazing writefags, and OC is the lifeblood of the board, however, some people long to see stories about their waifus that writefags don't normally do.
In the same spirit as a Drawthread, this is for Violated Heroes to request stories they'd like to see written, or for new and old writefags to link their work for critique, or for others to enjoy.Shilling is encouraged!
If you have large amounts of text, or are running an update to stories, please consider posting it all to a pastebin and posting here when it is updated or finished.
Please keep things on topic. It's fine to talk about stories, characters, plots, etc, but keep the blog-posting out of here.
Thread 1: https://archive.is/eT2UX
Thread 2: https://archive.is/zZyJk
Thread 3: https://archive.is/yUCIq
Thread 4: https://archive.is/5e1Qr
Thread 5: https://archive.is/vWMc9
Thread 6: https://archive.is/O2ckz
Thread 7: https://archive.is/B7Hfg
Thread 8: https://archive.is/dxA9v
Thread 9: http://archive.is/SgT2c
Thread 10: http://archive.is/5V6OG
Thread 11: http://archive.is/76I5P
____________________________
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d47959 No.386106
>>386103
Some of your questions already have answers.
https://archive.fo/zwo18
In fact, this article specifically goes over codependency, a partner with substance abuse, how to provide support, and how to address it in a way that doesn't feed codependency. Look at the story again once you are done reading that, you'll have your answers.
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a1616d No.386113
>>386057
I'm glad you raised the potential writing issue. I don't agree with your assessment in this particular case, but I see where you're coming from. I don't know how profitable it would be to argue the particulars. (You see the tanuki love Anon because she can pity and rescue him. I see her love him because her monster abilities let her see who he truly is. How could we persuade each other over something as personal as an interpretation of a passage?)
That said I think the discussion gets to the nub of something. In a conventional romance story you can derive narrative conflict from the romance itself. Do they actually like each other? Can they overcome this misunderstanding? Will he/she remain true when tempted? However, due to their peculiar nature, monster girls cannot experience any of these dilemmas. Monster girls love truly, faithfully, and completely. This creates a problem when you want to tell a monster girl story because the narrative conflict has to come from somewhere. Otherwise your monster girl story is just:
(a) monster sees boy
(b) monster rapes boy
(c) happily married
How you fit "stuff" around or into this (a)(b)(c) sequence is key.
For example, to get away from this the tanuki story's conflict is derived from Anon's actions as the antagonist:
(I) introduction of stakes
(II) antagonist actions create conflict
(III) climax including rapid (a)(b'ish)(c) from above
I cut out a lot I had written here but I'll just leave it at: You didn't like this solution. By your lights (III) read a lot like an unhealthy relationship. Anons can read what you said and decide if it's useful feedback or not.
On a personal note, and please don't take this as an attack, but you seem rather… hypervigilant regarding codependency. That's not bad really, but you may be closing yourself off to things unnecessarily. Suppose I'm totally wrong and these stories do all represent relationships unrealistic to the point of being unhealthy. Is that the end of the world? Even if you argue that the way monster girls are always totally committed to their husbands and support them no matter what is codependent, does that mean you can't enjoy the stories as unrealistic fiction? Action movies have nothing to do with real life /k/. Mystery novels spin tales comically more complex than the vast, vast majority of actual murders. Genre Fantasy is deliberately unrealistic. For all my pompous talk about narrative structure I really enjoy simple (a)(b)(c) monster girl content like silly little "ooga booga i raep u now boi" stories or heartfelt greentexts where Anon just straightforwardly imagines meeting his waifu. A story doesn't have to be instructional or a morality tale to be worthwhile.
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a01d8d No.386116
>>386106
I think I get what you're laying down, but I still think you're wrong. I'll agree it's unhealthy for someone to force change in someone else. That to date someone to "fix" them is very unhealthy indeed. But in a situation where someone becomes attracted to someone else who has self destructive tendencies, what are their options?
<1. Try to help them come to terms with their self destructive tendencies, which as you've stated is "changing someone" and is unhealthy unless the person specifically asks for help, which in most cases will never happen.
<2. Ignore the self destructive tendencies as a facet of their character, which is actually what happens in your article by someone who has codependency issues.
<3. Ignore your attraction and do not approach.
If you can think of any other options then I'm all ears. I'm interested to hear your response.
Incidentally, why do you mention that you're disappointed in /monster/?
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cf53bf No.386117
>>386116
because the fag wants to stay as a lazy neet fag who is 2 steps away from doing the trap shit.
>>386106
you act as if you're not surrounded by people who want you to change. news flash neetfag, society is actively trying to change you so you can consume in a matter that maximizes their money flow.
Some change is positive, other is just jew shit. If you honestly believe that change is just personal then you're a deluded fuck.
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9048ea No.386120
>>386077
>The healing fantasy is bad because it is ultimately a codependent relationship (which is a bad relationship)
>https://archive.fo/zwo18
Again, the whole point of healing is not that you go in wanting to change a person or forcefully change that person, healing is when you end up helping someone you love grow as a person.
I agree that putting your partner above yourself so much that you end up hurting yourself, which is the entire point of the link, is bad, but that's not what healing is about. Healing is about helping someone be happy with himself, not about trading your happiness for your partner's.
>On top of that, it's lazy writing.
>https://archive.fo/wu8kA
>I don't like it so it's bad
The first, and the only valid, critique of the link is that someone says I love you and the partner suddenly does an 180 and is instantly fixed, which is just bad writing in general and something that's not present in 99% of healing stories.
>Through the love of the good woman, he changes. The healing fantasy is comparable to forced change because someone else is taking responsibility for someone else's happiness, therefore is changing them. Changing a person doesn't have to be by force and the healing fantasy is the non-forceful way of being responsible for someone else's happiness.
Read my previous post again.
Healing involves a lot of incentive and getting the person to be happy with herself, and not dependent on the one doing the healing.
>My position is the story is not a healing fantasy if someone voluntarily wants to be happy and the other merely provides support.
Nigger, that's exactly what healing is, or at least what the term is used for around here.
>"Please let me, let us, make amends. Whatever you want, whatever will make you happy." Haruna feels responsible to make Anon feel better while Anon never voluntarily asked for feeling better.
Again, wanting your partner to feel happy is something imperative in a loving relationship. The difference about healing is that it's not a forceful change, you don't have healing stories where some monster girl forces anon to do something he doesn't want purely because she wants him to do it.
>Haruna loves Anon because she can pity and rescue him, feels responsible for actions of other monsters, feels responsible for Anon's happiness, and her feelings were controlled by Anon's despair/mana.
>because
Except that's wrong, she doesn't love the guy because she feels responsible, she feels feels responsible because she loves him. Of course she'd want to make the guy she loves feel happy.
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9048ea No.386121
>>386077
>>386120
Also, something that's really common in /monster/ or weeb healing stories where there is an arc where the healed girl hurts herself for the sake of MC or (there's your codependent relationship), it always leads to her being reprimanded by the MC for not properly caring about herself, or vice-versa.
It sounds to me like you've read those links, read some stories you found by googling "healing" and now you think every healing story follows that setup.
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034968 No.386172
>>386113
The reason I bring this up, and am adverse to it, is because based on the discussion here, people legitimately think healing fantasies are god-tier, and applicable in real life. While one can suspend disbelief in a story (like obvious one-off smut no one will ever actually take seriously), they still take moral premises to heart, hence the reaction I got. I was hoping to reverse this misguidance and illusion through my own writefaggotry (be the change you want to see), I think I've already dragged my name though the mud here enough to where I will likely be outright ignored or attacked if I did end up posing anything. Shooting the messenger seems to be a sport here.
Here is a little experiment for you: find a beloved and popular story that has an obvious moral flaw, and point it out. Watch as the insults and (you)s roll in. Rape might be the easiest because it is non-voluntary and a violation of someone's property rights, therefore is immoral.
>>386116
I guess the first thing to ask yourself is why you want anything to do with someone who has self destructive habits. I don't care if they're sexy, because looks are temporary, virtue is forever. Going past that, you should understand the nature of their habits. If they are doing it because they're just plain stupid, or have Cluster B personality disorders, option 3, no questions asked.
If you establish a reason as to why, for instance, someone smokes cigarettes to manage overwhelming anxiety from past traumatic experiences, or someone eats to get fat because they want to avoid relationships by being unattractive, option 2 is the best. While doing that, you might remind them that they're no longer in an environment where they need to self-medicate to manage their feelings. In the book "Wired for Love" by Stan Tatkin, these people are usually "Islands" and require a specific approach. Option 1 is what our naive hearts might want to do, but the best option instead is having them go see a therapist since they know what they're doing unlike most of us.
As for disappointment, one would assume "The Last Bastion of Romance" would have had this nailed down, but it is clearly not the case. Unfortunately, it comes from me, and I wish it didn't have to. I'm sort of a villain here so I doubt many people would seriously consider read what I post.
>>386120
>my definition of healing fantasy is correct so you're automatically wrong
>i bet you just googled this
I've studied this for about the past year. I'm not just "googlilng" things. If you go to any book store and go to the section where 50 Shades lies, all the books have dark castles in the background with a hot shirtless man on the cover, literally everything there is a healing fantasy, because that is what makes the most money in the market from single 30 year old women. It is literally all healing fantasy and codependency porn. That's the official and established genre and it is one of the biggest cancers in American romantic media, even going back to older movies like Pretty Woman. Through the love of the good woman, he changes. This shit fucking sells, 50 Shades alone sold over 150 million copies world wide (data from 2014, statista.com).
What you are describing as a healing fantasy is really just someone fixing themselves with the support of their partner. I understand the sentiment that most people don't want sad partners and wish to heal them, however, doing so yourself is violating their boundaries and overstepping your responsibility, even if it is out of good will. Ultimately, people only change themselves, you can't change other people. People are responsible for their own happiness, and if they want to be happy, all you can really do is support them. This is not a healing fantasy, you are not healing them, they are fixing themselves, you're just making it easier for them to do that. Don't take my word for it because you won't, why don't you go pick up a phone and ask every licensed therapist in your area if people change themselves, or if you can change people.
>Haruna really loves Anon
Care to list any examples of why she loves Anon outside of pity? Remember, she has hated Anon for the majority of the story. And I'm talking about legitimate reasons like shared values and virtues, not sophistries or biology.
I've attached a PDF of RTR, read pages 44-51. The vast majority of all relationship books and studies are in line with this.
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8cfaa7 No.386211
Anyone have the story about a band of space pirate monstergirls that pick up a lone meteor miner anon and then he gets into a relationship with the captain? Thanks.
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5e4328 No.386213
>>386172
>Actually claiming two-dimensional, one-handed airline romances are 'healing fantasy' with a straight face.
Nigger now I KNOW you're not joking about being a degenerate furfaggot.
>The vast majority of all relationship books and studies are in line with this.
I don't take relationship advice from kike mutants. Next?
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5983df No.386214
>>386172
At this point you either get off your fucking soapbox … or get the fuck out of here you ivory tower fume huffing faggot.
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a1616d No.386215
>>386211
I think that was one of -SACRIFICE-'s. And I don't think we've heard from him since his pastebin was deleted.
-SACRIFICE-, you OK man? We're worried about you.
Anyway, if this is the one you're talking about it's been lost to history unless somebody archived it:
>>362412
https://pastebin.com/YKdt28Ew
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6e510c No.386220
>>386215
Oh shit, that story is gone? I knew i should have let my paranoid self archive it somehow. but someone told me i was being paranoid about stories just up and disappearing. Time to make sure i have my favorites saved somewhere.
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fa6440 No.386222
>>386215
>-SACRIFICE-, you OK man? We're worried about you.
I'm still here. Long story short, I had a change of heart about writing smut and deleted my pastebin. I deleted my backups as well, so whatever you guys managed to archive is whatever's left. Obviously, I can't force you never to read or post the stories again, but I'm washing my hands of them.
Fun while it lasted.
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a1616d No.386225
>>386222
Not a huge fan of annihilating information, but I think I can understand. Glad you're all right. Hopefully during whatever troubles you experience some aspect of /monster/'s belief in love will stay with you and help you through.
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4828b9 No.386230
>>386222
Could you go more in details as I plan to make my own smut material even though I do not think I can do it well? Was it due to possible legal reasons, religious reasons, just feeling shame of writing in general (as I think you had SFW materials) or just dating someone? Would you do SFW /monster/ stories?
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e7f355 No.386231
>>386041
call me a newfag, autist, whatever, but I don't see how he's a furry by simply bringing up a point of discussion. Am I supposed to recognize his grammar and choice of words and tone? Also, While I don't entirely agree, I do think he makes a point. While I don't mind, and sometimes enjoy, stories about healing and change of heart, it does get old. Its also, sadly, getting to the point of those shitty love novels.
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9ca8e3 No.386232
>>386231
From >>386029
>The absolute saddest part about this is that my mangy furfag ass figured this out before anyone else here did.
The other anon linked the wrong post. Also, regardless of whether or not he has a point, he's clearly not arguing in good faith and is acting like a stuck up cunt, so he should fuck off.
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e7f355 No.386233
>>386232
And you guys are? Calling someone a faggot and telling them to leave isn't exactly in good faith either. I'm not trying to validate >>386172's tone or speech, but I do believe his heart is in the right place. I too don't want any future stories being just the same shit over and over with the only difference is the description of the mg. Could he have worded his thoughts better? Definitely; nobody likes when you ride a Siberian saddle on a mule and think your hot shit. Did it need to be said? At some point, honestly. Every now and again we all have to be reminded that, even in fantasy sometimes, relationships aren't perfect. It requires both sides to give 100%, to sacrifice certain indulgences, and to compromise. I'm not against a wholesome snuggle struggle story, but some depth would be nice. I'm also not saying any stories like that are terrible either, just trying to get my thoughts out there.
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361792 No.386234
>>386231
>>386232
I figured you would follow by him by the ID, but that's my mistake.
>>386233
Very well, newfag autist. I believe the argument was made above, so go ahead and read that. I would also recommend to lurk more, since you've also made that clear.
>>386222
As much as I enjoyed that story, I hope you make more stories for us. The reunion with anon at the cabin hit me about as hard as it did her
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8a1bce No.386235
>>386233
Oi m8! You got a loicense fo that opinion m8? Bettah wach wat u say or de rozzers with the b& hammer commeth an put u in de slammer.
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8c386c No.386237
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9048ea No.386238
>>386172
>I've studied this for about the past year. I'm not just "googlilng" things. If you go to any book store and go to the section where 50 Shades lies
>That's the official and established genre and it is one of the biggest cancers in American romantic media, even going back to older movies like Pretty Woman. Through the love of the good woman, he changes. This shit fucking sells, 50 Shades alone sold over 150 million copies world wide (data from 2014, statista.com).
Nigger, that's my entire point.
You go on reading popular books, 3DPD books and so on, and then you come here and try to inject the values of those books onto /monster/ stories.
The healing fantasy you screech about is completely different from /monster/ and weeb healing, they're two completely different things, that's my fucking point. You'd know that if you stopped talking about 50 shades of gay and read the weeb stories we are refering to.
No one here considers those books you mentioned healing stories, actual /monster/ healing stories aren't anywhere near that.
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9ca8e3 No.386239
>>386233
>And you guys are?
Considering the anons actually discussing the point are considering the opposition's views and insults are few and far between not to mention the first stone was thrown by the other guy so retaliation is justified in this case, they very much are arguing in good faith. Also, I'm not trying to add to the discussion here, I'm simply calling out a narcissistic prick and a furry for being just that. Don't discredit other anons because you happen to disagree with my beliefs.
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a8668b No.386244
>>386172
>>386077
I gotta say, these two articles are by far the worst,
With the first one legit being misrepresenting and fucking confused on what its talking about. No co-dependency is not fucking taking equal beatings or fucking being a emotional sponge, its fucking caring for each other in a equal measures and equal parts. Why does this artical talk about it like its some horrible fucking thing to share fucking responsiblitys.
The second one is a fucking opinion piece by a guy who fucking upset that the idea of people trying to heal others is somehow a negative feature cause somehow lazy writing on details on how a person is trying to recover with the aid.
What the fuck is going on, and why is this being presented as evidence.
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442823 No.386246
>>386238
This! This is a key point 50adb9 keeps ignoring/dodging/misunderstanding.
The examples he uses are clearly better suited to defend his point of view than the /monster/'s usual fare (especially 50 Shades, holy fuck, that shit sold as well as its writing is bad and dangerous).
Arguably, I've read that more than 2 Anons here liked Pretty Woman. Does that mean the movie's a perfect representation of a realistic healthy relationship? NO.
Do stories about romance always need to be realistic? Fuck NO.
Finally: the last bastion of romance is more a joke than an actual title, the foundations of our board are cemented with copious amount of rape, after all.
We can't all be love gurus with an Harvard doctorate in relationship, we're but a bunch of weebs dreaming of one day having a happy family of our own.
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344786 No.386248
>>386244
Co-dependency actually refers to a specific type of relationship where one member makes sacrifices for the other at the cost of their physical, mental, or emotional health. Their life may seem to revolve wholly around their partner yet they don’t get very much in return.
https://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/features/signs-of-a-codependent-relationship#1
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5983df No.386250
>>386246
Aye. What I'd like to know is … how does one debate a very solid idea so badly you get a 3 day ban? "Make sure to write MC and his MG waifu as real characters that aren't caricatures" by itself … is good idea. Arguing they way they did by huffing ivory tower fumes and going off like he did? Just another furfag or libtard trying to shit up the place.
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442823 No.386252
>>386250
Aye. It was so badly expressed, it feels like effort was put into making it shitty…
Either bait or a natural talent at fucking communication up.
I don't know which is more tragic.
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e7f355 No.386254
>>386239
>>386250
1: I was referring to the autistic sperging replies when I said that. I had no problems with the actual, thought out responses.
2: I don't see any stones being thrown by him other than his tone and manner of speech. You have every right to call him out on that, but calling him a furfag and libtard isn't really necessary.
3: I wasn't trying to discredit anyone. I stated what I agreed with him on (which was how we ought to avoid the 3dpd style of writing and that change ought to be personal) and that was it. If anything, I agree more with the opposition. The /monster/ style of writing the healing/change of heart isn't like 3dpd, but we ought to keep the point in mind so we can always avoid it being anywhere close if possible. Also, its fantasy. It can be as simple as mg meets then rapes boy, but adding more depth and thought can help better the immersion while keeping to the fantasy setting. I could go on, but I feel as though my reply is already needlessly long. Hopefully I made myself, and my words, more transparent.
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cf53bf No.386265
>>386233
ivory tower viewpoints do not have the opinion of the nuclear family. People do change within their relationships. its expected if the woman doesnt change you then the children will. The guy should leave his neetbox and go outside some more.
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3a64fd No.386268
>>386254
We’re calling him a furfag because he already called himself that
See>>386232
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a8668b No.386274
>>386050
>>386057
Ok I guess if that person taking crack I should let em take crack.
if my friend is depressed I'll be sure to let his depression spiral out of control and not help him or else that'll be manipulation and not healing, and even though without the help hes likely to die. thanks for such grand-advice
Remember kids if your friends fucked up or need help, don't thats manipulating them to be happy.
This is the dumbest set of logic i've ever heard and its litearly just don't change people because its bad m'kay
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cf53bf No.386275
>>386274
you have to understand most furries and mega autists dont understand intent, there's a reason why they constantly get molested or manipulated into situations where their degeneracy escalates and their ability to recognize things diminishes.
But thats expected on people who constantly consume reductionism and think they're smart for being contrarian. when in reality they dont present a solution, just endless unhappy opinions because someone touched them the wrong way.
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fa6440 No.386276
>>386225
Thanks for the kind words. This board has been good to me and I'm glad you anons at least enjoyed what I could write. There probably won't be any more though, I decided to stop writing long before I got rid of the pastebin. Hopefully this doesn't feel like a betrayal or anything like that.
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361792 No.386282
>>386276
It does hurt me a bit you culled your story, though I can understand why with the protag being with multiple women
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fa6440 No.386286
>>386234
>>386282
I think you have me confused with someone else.
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2a7c67 No.386298
>>386239
Fair criticism isn't throwing stones. Name calling and personal attacks are. During the discussion, I didn't judge anyone's argument or attack their character based on who they were. Revealing what I was quickly exposed a lot of people who would rather attack character than engage in conversation, which is intellectually dishonest. While this might sound pompous and snobby, I would say compared to what? Around me is a sea insults and personal attacks. The same reason why dollar store steaks are sophisticated to chicken rotting in a dumpster.
>>386238
I'm not injecting those values, I'm merely stating that I am seeing the values here and they should be avoided and replaced.
>You go on reading popular books, 3DPD books and so on, and then you come here and try to inject the values of those books onto /monster/ stories.
Please point out in one of my posts where I advocate to where stories on /monster/ should be more like the genre 50 Shades resides in.
>The healing fantasy you screech about is completely different from /monster/ and weeb healing, they're two completely different things, that's my fucking point. You'd know that if you stopped talking about 50 shades of gay and read the weeb stories we are refering to.
>No one here considers those books you mentioned healing stories, actual /monster/ healing stories aren't anywhere near that.
The one I just read was essentially that. Additionally, please stop presenting an inductive observation as a deductive definition.
>>386244
Please provide a source to back up your definition claim. So far, there are two stacked against you. The other source is from an established author who's written 170+ stories, I take her advice seriously because her experience is quantifiable. Please provided adequate sources that can negate both.
>>386252
What I'd like to know is if this burst of post in a short period of time comes from a behind-the-scenes chat room that I'm guessing I've thoroughly angered, and if posts being deployed here are being made behind my back. Why isn't this burst of posts attacking me, not considered thread derailment as this burst of attacks doesn't contribute to discussion on the writefag thread? Is it because Aux is in on it too, and allows this to occur? Most importantly, since people are responsible for their own happiness, why are they allowing this argument to get under their skin and act hostile?
>>386274
I understand you are empathetic to someone under hard times and want to make them feel better. It hurts to see people upset, naturally, we would want them feel better. However, it isn't your war to fight and you shouldn't be overstepping your boundaries. People don't normally change, and if they do, it needs to be their own decision. You can be supportive, but you shouldn't try to change them unless you are a therapist who specializes in depressed individuals. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.
>>386265
>>386275
Aux, please explain how I'm arguing from an ivory tower. I've been here for a few years, this last current one I've gone though a lot of learning and changes. I see things a lot differently here now.
I'm not being contrarian, I have identified an issue in expectations, described it, and the solution that comes out of it and how to avoid it. I even provided sources to be examined how one could do better.
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612d50 No.386300
New thread. Didn't expect to have to make one so quickly at the end there.
https://8ch.net/monster/res/386299.html
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a8668b No.386302
>>386298
>The other source is from an established author who's written 170+ stories
this implies they're all good and not mass-produced trash.
>I understand you are empathetic to someone under hard times and want to make them feel better. It hurts to see people upset, naturally, we would want them feel better. However, it isn't your war to fight and you shouldn't be overstepping your boundaries. People don't normally change, and if they do, it needs to be their own decision. You can be supportive, but you shouldn't try to change them unless you are a therapist who specializes in depressed individuals. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.
Your arguement is horrible, holy shit. Yes it is your war including when the person is your friend or happens to be family. even if you aren't a professional person you still have a right and a duty to try and steer your friend on a better path or at least fucking support them enough to get off their feet. You are saying people should do nothing until specialized help can arrive. Your advice is by far the worst I've ever seen and is borderline apathy towards the helping of others and care of others. including if you're doing nothing when you know should be at least steering the person away from such shit. Quit trying to fucking have this moral high-ground while pretending doing nothing is the best things for others.
To summarize your arguement: Please don't do anything ok, let other people handle stuff even if your help is the most immediate one.
not only that, its not really a relationship if both sides refuse to change, its more like being a roommate then it that of an actual relationship.
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442823 No.386303
ID: 3d493a, here.
Alright, since this thread is obsolete, let's discuss like civilized people.
>>386298
>What I'd like to know is if this burst of post in a short period of time comes from a behind-the-scenes chat room that I'm guessing I've thoroughly angered
Do you honestly believe this to be a possibility? I mean, it's not impossible, alright, but I'd rather say you're being victim of "Newfag's first mistake" which is that you did not lurk long enough to understand this board culture. People have better things to do than gather and plan how to prove one Anonymous user wrong.
Oh, yes, you did anger some of us here in the writefag thread, I personally didn't like your opinion, despite agreeing with some of your points, but as I said, the way you presented your arguments was so flawed, you shot yourself in the foot and killed most possibility of debate in the egg.
>and if posts being deployed here are being made behind my back. Why isn't this burst of posts attacking me, not considered thread derailment as this burst of attacks doesn't contribute to discussion on the writefag thread? Is it because Aux is in on it too, and allows this to occur?
Oh but the ones willing to discuss this can earn something positive from it all… That is, if we're willing to consider the other's arguments, in fact more than one post above these did mention that you're not entirely wrong and will perhaps use these good points in future works, so, objective accomplished. And no, Aux might be board owner, but he's certainly not gonna scheme some internet bullying on his own board for the sake of it. The man does what he wants, he fucks shit up too, as any human does.
>Most importantly, since people are responsible for their own happiness, why are they allowing this argument to get under their skin and act hostile?
Calling someone a newfag and shittalking them until they leave is imageboard tradition, whether they did get angry or not. Additionnally, no, one individual is never 100% responsible of their happiness, if your dream-life involves a happy family and your children fall ill, you can bet your very soul you're not gonna feel O.K. and worse of all, you'll be powerless, even a surgeon has to trust their patient will be strong enough to make it after the operation. You put a target on your back by the form of your message, not its function. Also, /monster/ loves stories featuring "one day, your waifu will come and make your life better" it's a staple of the MG genre, you waltzing in here saying that such a dream is BAD is a terrible idea.
Next post, we'll summarize this whole debacle so we can end this once and for all.
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442823 No.386320
>>386303
Let's start this all over again, from the top:
<"Hostile TakeOver" (https://pastebin.com/J3GxzzkW) uses a dangerous writing trend seen in many mainstream media, depicting a female character falling in love with a man who is unhealthy, both as an individual and partner. Through her own efforts and affection, she manages to heal him and both end up happy. This kind of stories this board love so much is unrealistic and if you want to use the title of Last Bastion of romance, you're doing it wrong."
Now, your first mistake was that you did not comment on the Story itself, which was rude, you simply wanted to criticize this trope, citing one of the most despised piece of mainstream writing in latest years as your comparison. Should you want to, I can explain why that sabotaged the rest of your discourse.
The second was that you clearly ignore the first rule of Monter Girls (as seen by this board): a MonsterGirl's love is ABSOLUTE, this is the "honest" part of the Last Bastion of Romance, whatever the reason, whatever the circumstances, the MG and the Anon are Soul-Mates, their union true and will endure even in death. It's without a shadow of a doubt, the cheesiest concept ever, but isn't it the core of Romance itself? For Love to be eternally beautiful and true? That is what most Anons here look for, the image of Love reciprocated, an oasis of old traditionnal values in the despair-filled modern-world.
This means that, in Hostile TakeOver, from the scene where Anon shows Haruna his true Mana and she wants to make him happy, we know she isn't doing it out of self-gratification or to manipulate him for her own gains, she genuinely cares about him and wants him to be better, not a different person.
This is a point you seem to misunderstand, "Healing and Purification" hinge on the fact that the characters at the end of the story are objectively happier, while you are 100% correct to say that this is unrealistic and extremely likely to be dangerous in real life. But I believe the vast majority of users on /monster/ have long since realized that fiction is fiction and are able to differentiate between reality and fiction, just as you rightfully pointed out: a decent portion of internet culture hates the modern world values and desires something else, namely, meaningful relationship, they can't find it IRL, the least we can do as writefag, is entertain this dream, provide a tiny insignificant bit of respite.
Finally, some of your sentences felt very "masturbatory" and inflamatory, for no reason, quote: >>386029
>The absolute saddest part about this is that my mangy furfag ass figured this out before anyone else here did. Last Bastion of Romance? What a fucking joke.
A textbook exemple of hostile and narcissistic behaviour, and that was in response to a comment that reacted positively towards your main point! >>385980
So in short: despite your valid argument, you failed to understand your audience, you failed to follow proper board etiquette, you then used a poor choice of words and ended up antagonizing most of your potential audience including those who could have benefitted from your advice. You have only yourself to blame for this, expecially if you believe in: "people are responsible for their own happiness".
That is all from me. Goodevening to all who've read this wall of crap.
TLDR: Lurk moar, filthy furry faggot.
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cf53bf No.386326
>>386298
morality involves action retard, your highground trash talk means nothing if no actions are taken. You probably did not have mommy and daddy tell you that doing stuff for others and yourself is a part of reality. All actions constitute as change, your following of articles of people who dont know what a good relationship is is quite telling. You cannot recognize it, you're doing this furfag discord thing and its fucking your shit up. If you do surround yourself by egomaniacs eventually you will lose all sense of what is life and what is selfishness. and you cant even see it through your argumentation.
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c92b27 No.386385
>>386302
Why do you think someone should be entitled to someone else's emotions? Taking responsibility of someone's happiness is manipulative. You can't force someone to experience happiness. You're conditioning them to where they will become dependent on you for happiness, and you're conditioning them to feel sorry for themselves. This is extremely selfish. People are better off when they can learn to create happiness for themselves, and the best way to do this is to lead by example. Subsidizing their happiness sabotages their ability to become self reliant for a feeling they're responsible for. If they really wanted to be happy, they'd find a way on their own, and you have no business interfering with it. If they want to be sad because it gives them attention, they will continue to do so.
You're too focused on the outcome rather than the starting principle that causes it. A common form of this is the wage gap myth.
>>386303
>/monster/ loves stories featuring "one day, your waifu will come and make your life better" it's a staple of the MG genre, you waltzing in here saying that such a dream is BAD is a terrible idea.
I'm completely aware of this observation. However, not everything we love is necessarily good for us. Some people love alcohol, but it damages the liver and the brain. Some people love fast food, but it makes them fat and die at 35. Some people love masturbating, but it wears out your pre-frontal lobe to where you become a lazy slob, and wears out your dopamine receptors to the point where nothing is enjoyable.
I'm talking specifically about the healing fantasy and the illusion of love it presents. It warps expectations to where it is detrimental to actual relationships. It's why 3D who read modern romance novels act PD. I've seen it here more than I'd like, the opportunity for stories that teach real intimacy and relationship skills realistically is being squandered. No doubt it will be painful for some when it is pointed out what they love is merely an illusion and I expected there would be a lot of hurt feelings. However, facts don't care about feelings, and the uncomfortable truth is preferable to comfortable lies.
>Additionnally, no, one individual is never 100% responsible of their happiness…
This is false because it disregards an individual's moral agency, they decide their own emotions. If someone I care about gets sick, then it is my decision to be sad about it. I can also take them to the doctor, get them cured, and then choose to feel better. If someone points a gun to my head, I choose to feel fear. If I trained to to disarm someone holding them at gunpoint, I'll choose to be brave. If someone posts something I don't agree with on the internet, then it is my decision to be irritated. If I spend a few minutes to meditate to keep emotional pressure from negatively influencing my decisions, I can choose to be calm about it and write my reply. Emotions can only be experienced first hand and we are responsible for our own emotions.
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c92b27 No.386386
>>386385
cont.
>>386320
>you clearly ignore the first rule of Monter Girls (as seen by this board): a MonsterGirl's love is ABSOLUTE
This is merely an observation. Don't strawman a tendency as absolute. It is also a preference, which can't be proven.
>That is what most Anons here look for, the image of Love reciprocated
I posted a book here about it. I doubt most people even looked at the pages I suggested. I doubt most people even read the entire thing. Even if I come off as rude, there is no excuse for avoiding knowledge, and if people wanted to write about what true love really is, then they should first look for it elsewhere outside of their idealistic imaginations, /monster/, or MGE because in recent years, there has been a huge amount of relationship studies done and published on the internet. The book I posted is a good start, I guess.
>But I believe the vast majority of users on /monster/ have long since fiction is fiction and are able to differentiate
Fictional work generally written with an underlying message that is applicable reality. I saw issue with this when people were cheering on what was a healing fantasy and that it was "god-tier" The issue arises when the validity of the message is proportional to the works quality OR popularity. For instance, The Communist Manifesto, Das Kapital, The Boy in the Striped Pajamas, and the Talmud. Your belief is just an assumption.
>A textbook exemple of hostile and narcissistic behaviour
Sometimes I like to shit talk. It is part of imageboard culture after all. It's not my fault people might be offended by it. If they ignore what I say just over that, that's their problem.
>the characters at the end of the story are objectively happier
Like the last anon, you are focused more on the outcome than the principle that constructs it.
>despite your valid argument, you failed
Great, so feel free to make the argument for me in other threads since you're more in touch with the audience and you see value in it. I'm no car salesmen and I've been blunt in this discussion.
> You have only yourself to blame for this, expecially if you believe in: "people are responsible for their own happiness"
So I'm responsible for for making the audience feel antagonized? And this prevents them from reciprocating the advice because I offended them? No, being offended is a choice, and it is not an argument.
>TLDR: Lurk moar, filthy furry faggot.
Again, my preference is not provable, and you'll never know if I was serious or ironic the entire time.
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c92b27 No.386388
>>386386
cont.
>>386326
>your following of articles of people who dont know what a good relationship
Substantiate your claim Aux.
On another note since you seem keen on bringing family into discussion: Making assertions about one's character due to their family of origin is ascribing a moral cause to a biological situation, is immoral. If someone gets dealt a bad deck for life, you show them sympathy.
>If you do surround yourself by egomaniacs eventually you will lose all sense of what is life and what is selfishness.
Coming from someone who runs private /monster/ Riot chat rooms, one of which you treat as a personal blog. Even before then, you treated Discord the same way before you ditched that.
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cf53bf No.386862
>>386388
scroll up and look at your posts retard. you seem to ignore the state of mind of the authors writing for the links you posted. also you have alot of nerve talking about other chats when you spacebattle faggots come in here and try to shit on different aspects of romance that are not fit on your insane libtard forums.
if anything your rant about wanting to die is just hardcore blogposting. Nobody who is sane has your mindset. get help and stop thinking that healing someone is bad.
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ca6ae2 No.387027
>>386862
>you seem to ignore the state of mind of the authors writing
Aux, please directly refute the argument.
>Nobody who is sane has your mindset. get help and stop thinking that healing someone is bad.
Substantiate your claim. If I am that far incorrect, then it should be easy to find a more credible sources that claims: a codependent relationship is healthy and that we ought to be "fixers" that heal people and take responsibility of their happiness.
Since no one has been able to provide a source or credentials to refute the argument, then my argument still stands. The healing fantasy is where you take responsibility for other people's happiness. It is a codependent relationship which is manipulation.
While I understand you want a board where Anons can experience romance though the form of fictional writing or images, this healing fantasy is merely an idealized illusion of romance. In reality, it is manipulation in disguise and is misguiding the hearts of those that do desire the experience of romance or love.
Here are some more articles that support my position if the first wasn't adequate enough:
https://archive.fo/L8Dvn - You Can’t Solve Other People’s Problems: How to Stop Trying to Change Others
https://archive.fo/99Ceq - Relationships and The Need to Fix Others: Are You A Fixer?
https://archive.fo/6qa3D - How to fix another person
https://archive.fo/JB6B0 - Stop fixing people
https://archive.fo/4L3Ue - The myth of managing emotions
https://archive.fo/LPUq1 - You are not responsible for other people's happiness. Here's why:
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cf53bf No.387058
>>387027
first source.
https://sharonmartincounseling.com/highly-sensitive-people-perfectionism-5-ways-to-tame-your-perfectionism/
she has an increased amount of sensitivity to people around her, thus she is not a fit candidate to hand out information about the subject.
second person. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronx-Lebanon_Hospital_Center a place rife with problems.
stines so far has no problems
https://onbeing.org/programs/rachel-naomi-remen-the-difference-between-fixing-and-healing-nov2018/ raomi believes in finding reasons of fixing things and when to back off. If you were in a relationship with someone they would poke at you at one of your habits if its bad. its part of having a relationship. then again material arguments often get in the way of the inmaterial personality changes that will happen in a relationship regardless of what you percieve of them.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/author/michael-j-formica huffington post blogger on your other source
Anyways you compared radfem fiction to stuff that people write here and expect it to be on the same level. That kinda makes you deluded. Also you did that " you dont know if im a furfag spiel" so you also have the incentive to not change from your degenerate dog fucking tollerating ways.
next time research some more.
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029d84 No.387200
>>387058
>first source
>discredit it because of the character of the writer (AdHom)
>instead of directly refuting the article
>second source
>discredit it because of the history of the institution (AdHom)
>instead of directly refuting the article
>fifth source
>discredit it because of the character of the writer (AdHom)
>instead of directly refuting the article
>provided source
This podcast is more focused on medical diseases, their discomforts, and grief from loss. It has nothing to do with personal relationships. It has nothing to do with personal habits within a relationship. It has nothing to do with personality changes during a relationship. It does not in any way counter any of my arguments.
>podcast hosted by Krista Tippett
>writer for the huffington post (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/author/krista-tippett)
By your own standards, you should not have used this podcast as a source.
>raomi believes in finding reasons of fixing things and when to back off.
She never mentioned this in the podcast you linked. If you would have listened to your own source, you would have known she defined fixing, in the context of the podcast, as curing a medical disease, and fixing/curing all diseases was an impossible goal so healing was the other option because it was easier.
>If you were in a relationship with someone they would poke at you at one of your habits if its bad. its part of having a relationship…
This is imposing your own goals on others. It is manipulation and is part of a unhealthy relationship. It is treating your partner with contempt because you are avoiding knowledge of the partner and instead, making it about yourself (RTR pdf Pg 50).
>Anyways you compared radfem fiction to stuff that people write here and expect it to be on the same level. That kinda makes you deluded.
I never mentioned feminism in any of my posts. The only thing that comes close is stating that healing fantasies in modern day romances about changing men is female narcissism, but this doesn't discuss feminism. Stop deliberately mischaracterizing my arguments.
>Also you did that " you dont know if im a furfag spiel" so you also have the incentive to not change from your degenerate dog fucking tollerating ways.
I never made the position that beasteality is tolerable behavior. Like one of the others before you, you're strawmanning a observation as an absolute.
>next time research some more.
>only provided one source
>doesn't even know whats in it
>unable to directly refute any of the arguments within the seven provided sources
>only research done was to discredit sources via AdHom rather than directly refute article
Aux, where do you source your relationship information you currently believe and present, and how do you quantify its validity?
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4e3180 No.387236
>>387200
You probably shouldn't whine about ad hominem when your entire position is ad verecundiam.
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