/lit/ - Literature

>>11415

How so?

>>11406

>Would that be going too far?

By "SHTF" I assume you are "fanning" … er … "panning" the idea of a post-apocalypse story.

The answer being, there is no straightforward answer. It all depends on your intended audience and genera.

The first thing I flashed on from your description (including the dubious food reference) was the scene with the "cave ogre" from Gore Vidal's A Search for the King. So, it is not like this idea is impossible to pull off even for mainstream fiction.

A bit out of context but here goes… I always thought things got too edgy/gay when there is no real motive/intent. I don't know what your character is like. Does what you said make sense for the character? If so then go with it, but just from the snippet you shared it does sound too edgy.

>>11419

Ask yourself this: knowing that there are things happening all the time, which are both more interesting and edgy if only because they are real, what are the chances someone will find it edgy that you will have thought up that scene? I assume that you want the scene to be shocking, because if you wanted it to be something else, you would have asked if it so instead.

I don´t think that you understand the true meaning of the word "edgy". Edgy for example is a character who is supposed to be hardcore and badass, but instead just comes off as laughable and retarded. You know, like shadow the hedgehog. Edgy isn´t a synonym for dark and mature, although it´s mostly used in that way nowadays.

>>11406

I think that writing can stay decent at very high levels of edginess depending on how you handle it. The Dark Tower is ridiculously edgy but you can realize that the writer wasn't writing edge expressly for edginess or shock value. The edginess is basically in service to show something else.

Example is kid gets run over by some ritch guy's stagecoach and dies and guy riding in it doesn't care. except for the blood on his nice cart. You see the world is dark and uncaring. The writer doesn't embellish the writing of the blood with an excessive and ridiculous description because it's not about that.

The difference really is like someone getting shot in the dick on southpark and someone getting stabbed in the dick on a horror movie like Saw. People will find it tiresome if you're doing the latter because they know the only point of him getting stabbed is for him to get stabbed and for you to be shocked. In south park it's humorous and Butters is an asshole for shooting someone in the dick.

>>11426

Also I think this anon is probably correct in that edginess=/=dark and mature. It's probably more like

Edgy=mishandling or playing at being dark/mature

>>11406

One problem I see is, why make this guy your protagonist? Ask yourself: Would anyone living in the setting I'm creating tell this story to anyone? When that isn't the case, something is probably wrong.

>>11449

>Why make this guy your protagonist?

To demonstrate the effects of societal collapse on morals.

>Would anyone living in the setting I'm creating tell this story to anyone?

Would you tell people about the time you paid for sex?

>>11522

>To demonstrate the effects of societal collapse on morals.

we have had several societal collapses already, local or widespread, to know what happens when shtf.

i happened to have read post apocalictic stuff and enjoyed it.

but you are not demostrating a thing.

>>11522

>To demonstrate the effects of societal collapse on morals.

Meaning that people become cannibals and complete assholes? Good luck getting anything new out of that premise.

>Would you tell people about the time you paid for sex?

Nope. Because it doesn't make for a compelling story.

op, its pretty edgy

I dunno. Not really that edgy.

I had a female pilot get in a 1 on 1 dogfight with the main villain, lose, bail out, then get shot to pieces when he decided to circle back and shoot her which she was hanging from her parachute. Then her boyfriend finds her ripped apart from the waist down and sobs over her half-body for an hour or so. r8 that edge (probably 0/10 but I tried)

>>11611

5/10 you tried

>>11611

4.5/10. Problem is that this scenario is too plausible and realistic, even if unusual. Although I'd expect only a few bullets to hit her, so she would be shredded, but not vaporized as you described. Assuming 12.7mm, that is.

I like where this thread is going, by the way. I tried to come up with the edgiest bit of my upcoming novel but couldn't think of anything special, though. I guess reading my way through Death by Government took all the fun from going out of your way to be more disturbing than reality.

>>11630

Sounds alright to me, then. Viscal brutality used for storytelling and characterization, not for the fun of it

And sure, you can post it! Can't guarantee I'll be able to help, but yeah

>>11667

http://pastebin.com/CAB4HStq

Here it is, starts when I cut back to their dogfight after jumping between several points of view.

I haven't had time to workshop it much but I figure it's better this way to get raw feedback on my original writing so I can adjust how I write first drafts. Especially given my work is so large it's possible I'll have to stick with first drafts for the less important scenes (though I am trying to cut out as many non-vital scenes as I can given the breadth of material I have to cover).

Any feedback would be appreciated. The pic I posted is pretty close to what I am aiming for with the scene.

>>11672

<Nazi mode on>

>Finally her fingers wrapped around

Finally, …

>The battery wouldn't last long, but it was already tuned to the Firehawk. In case she needed rescue.

Eliminate the first period and join these two sentences, as the last is incomplete. A better stylistic instead of grammatical suggestion, just eliminate the last sentence. It's redundant.

>til his fighter faced Fiona

until …

</nazi>

I suspect anime influences the writing. This is neither good, nor bad. It's just an observation. However …

<Crazy nitpick from left field>

Most modern air-to-air missiles don't require direct contact as a means of causing destruction. A modern missile that passes inches away without effect did not miss, it malfunctioned.

Aside from clarity of action, plus being visually appealing, anime air/space battles show contact hits as being required to crack near magic armor. Super science cladding the likes of which directed shotgun blasts of shrapnel, or mere expanding rings of metal can't scratch.

You probably don't need to change this. Stick with your vision. What I am really saying isn't about technical geekery. Rather, be wary of visually based influences (film/TV) that can unconsciously creep into your writing.

</nitpick>

This action scene was clearly and sufficiently described. Events flow swiftly from beginning to end without problem, I can see the action. Nitpicking aside, you wrote a whiplash air battle scene correctly. I likes. Keep going.

>>11680

Missile detonation is not a nickpick. Knowing about it is necessary to find a more sensible solution, such as jumping on the rocket and hammering it.

>>11406

Sounds like pretty standard fare for a Harlan Ellison novel to me.

>>11406

Forget edgy: Is it interesting? Do you pose any conscious ideas here that fascinate you? Do you pose an aesthetic - any unconscious ideas - here that fascinates you?

>>11680

I find your anime observation interesting because I am not at all a fan of anime. Some friends got me to watch the first episode of Attack on Titan. That's about it.

That said when I imagine this story in my head I imagine it partly with real-world context, partly with this sort of comic-book-animated sort of aesthetic. So I guess kind of cartoony, but very artsy as well.

But that is a good point about the missiles. I may or may not change it. It's one of those things I actually know but forget / ignore in favor of being cinematic (like the giant creatures that exist that would really collapse under square cube law, etc.)

I did fix your two nazi nitpicks, though, which is good. I am going to work harder on cutting down the scene. Deleted that sentence because it is irrelevant. The more I can cut this down the better, and the more I can learn to write succinctly, the better. Especially given a lot of my writing "career" I spent trying to achieve the opposite.

Thanks for your help. I will critique something of yours if you want to post it. May take me a while but 8ch's lit is much slower so I can take my time if I need.

>>11681

How retarded are you?

>>11406

Reminds me of The Road [spoiler] when those people ate that baby.

[/spoiler]

The word edgy has been a bit abused. As a few people have said "is it interesting?" I'm going to say it isn't.

>>11698

>Some friends got me to watch the first episode of Attack on Titan. That's about it.

Get rid of your friends, they're tumblr level garbage.

Seriously, only tumblrfaggots actually recommend you watch Attack on Titan, it's on the same level of cancer as Game of Thrones.

>>11794

McCarthy is pretty much Edgy: The Author

Even his writing style is edgy

Can /lit/ rate my edginess? Just for fun.

>A fictional state has replaced the parliament with a giant hivemind composed of a million individual minds

>When you get elected, your brain is extracted from your body, your body immolated and the brain destructively scanned and simultaneously uploaded in a giant computer and synched with the other brains

>About every two months, a hundred-thousand people are elected, whether they consent or not

>You cease to exist as an individual the longer you are part of the hivemind

I did intend for this to be at least mildly disturbing. It's part of my overall case about democracy.

>>11856

Wouldn't the hivemind have authority over continuing the practice? If they deemed getting uploaded a bad thing, only reason they would continue it would be out of spite against the living. Which would mean the government would have to be considered genocidally, almost cartoonishly, tyrannical. That wouldn't be edgy but silly. If they on the other hand consider the upload a good thing, or atleast necessary for some reason, then it seem pretty tame. Who is the one electing the parliament members anyway? If this is in fact a democracy and not some crazed expanding AI hivemind, people could just not vote anyone unwilling. "If you vote for me, I will try to get you all killed, or atleast the taxed hiked up" should be enough not to get votes. In the end the parliament would be filled with technophiles, the suicidally depressed and the terminally ill/elderly.

>>11865

>Wouldn't the hivemind have authority over continuing the practice?

I haven't thought about that yet, but good point. The state in my book does have a constitution, so the power of the hivemind isn't unlimited, but whether it can abolish itself is a good question. I know of a similar issue in constitutional law from my own country.

>If they deemed getting uploaded a bad thing, only reason they would continue it would be out of spite against the living. Which would mean the government would have to be considered genocidally, almost cartoonishly, tyrannical. That wouldn't be edgy but silly.

It's supposed to be a good thing, and most of the people elected do consider it an honor.

>If they on the other hand consider the upload a good thing, or atleast necessary for some reason, then it seem pretty tame.

Not all the elected do, just most. And thanks for the perspective!

>Who is the one electing the parliament members anyway?

The entire citizenry, directly. The election is supposed to be a bit of a media event every time it happens, with ten percent of the hivemind being replaced.

>If this is in fact a democracy and not some crazed expanding AI hivemind, people could just not vote anyone unwilling. "If you vote for me, I will try to get you all killed, or atleast the taxed hiked up" should be enough not to get votes.

The thing is made up of a shitload of people. I have a million in mind (which means I'll increase the legislation periods, otherwise it just has too much of an impact on the population figures and you'll eventually run out of politically interested people). So, even the one crazy psychopath who is elected just for fun, or to get him out of the way, or for some other reason has his plans for world destruction reduced to "valuable input". The idea is that the hivemind represents the population; hence the large size of it, that way there's a representative for every two-thousand citizens.

>In the end the parliament would be filled with technophiles, the suicidally depressed and the terminally ill/elderly.

What I imagine is like a sort of secular religion centered around the thing. You off yourself by being uploaded, more or less (eventually more), but you also join something greater than yourself. This is helped by the hivemind being incredibly intelligent, so that talking to it feels extremely humbling. All of that plays into the overall theme of social engineering and its pitfalls.

Again, thanks for the input, I already know I benefitted from it!

>>11873

>The idea is that the hivemind represents the population; hence the large size of it, that way there's a representative for every two-thousand citizens.

I forgot to close that circle. It represents the entire citizenry, and is not supposed to be the instrument of any one class or group of people. This citizenry also includes criminals and crazy people, so having some of them in is actually beneficial from a purely democratic standpoint. It may not be reasonable, but that's okay. It's just a small detail anyway.

>>11873

>>11874

All in all that doesn't sound "edgy", atleast for the sake of edginess. The society practices what is pretty much large scale ritualized human sacrifice for what they think is common good, but so did many real life societies and for them it was usually serious business. In this one the sacrifice has some proof they get to go to their "God", though.

By the way, does the society limit emigration? Could someone who really doesn't want to partake in the government system leave the place easily enough?

>>11877

>All in all that doesn't sound "edgy", atleast for the sake of edginess.

Completely fine by me.

>The society practices what is pretty much large scale ritualized human sacrifice for what they think is common good, but so did many real life societies and for them it was usually serious business. In this one the sacrifice has some proof they get to go to their "God", though.

That's pretty much what I was thinking of, too.

>By the way, does the society limit emigration? Could someone who really doesn't want to partake in the government system leave the place easily enough?

Emigration would be legally possible, albeit not guaranteed. Plus this nation is spanning most of earth, is the predominant nation on it, and emigrating to space is hardly feasible. I thinkt he closest example would be something like the US in this regard.

>>11910

Sometimes. But the likeable female character dying in a terrible way, is a good way to drive home the horror of war.

>>12172

It can't be much of a war if the worst is that one girl dies.

>>11958

Tell me more about these spechul hugs.

>>12226

By now, my eyes know to glaze over anything about fictional characters, which brings me back to the original point.

>>12234

…I am confused as to your point then. Are you saying not to focus on the characters' experiences of a war? Focus on peoples' misery from shortages of goods, and their resulting hardships? Heartbreaking scenes of families saying goodbye to sons and daughters they will never see again?

>>12261

I think that's on you, anon. I read a fuckload of non-fiction and still feel like even the stories with the most fantastic premises can teach you a few things.

>>12276

I said fake stuff: things trying to imitate the real world. Not trying to do your own fantastic thing.

>>12261 (me)

That's not quite complete. About the pretexts, I meant that the fact that covers, descriptions, and discussions are centered on specific interpretations or character traits, they are still less important than the presence of multiple interpretations or the events in the context of which everyone did well or not.

>>12261

>I don't see the point of fictional characters, stories, or wars. I won't feel about them as much as real ones, if at all, nor do they teach anything, like the real ones do.

I suppose that's fair..

>>11406

what is 8chan i don't know what i'm doing

not a book but a movie idea I dreamed up one day a few months ago

OK, I thought up of this movie idea I had.

Set in the early 1980s, a man who has run out of luck in relationships with women, because of massive cheating on their part, his life is a nihilistic black void, so he hunts his exes down and kills every last one of them using whatever he can get his hands on, be it a knife, an axe, a sword or various handguns, rifles shotguns etc, sometimes torturing them for hours on end before dealing the final blow. This would be chronicaled in a third person passive mode, single or double camera at most using lo-fi camcorder tech, home video tech, scanlines, somewhat reel to reel home video footage and with the popularity of stuff like Hotline Miami, vaporwave-esque glitching, TV static but keeping it as realistic as possible, soundtracked by late 70s/80s industrial/noise/synth music.

I want to make the main character as unlikeable as possible, throw in some national socialist stuff, Islamic jihad connections, KKK rally footage.

I want to make the ultimate below z grade slasher flick. And make people throw up

>>12226

Not so keen on the killing of a supporting character purely as a mechanic to incite change, kinda devalues previously established characters as a result.