/liberty/ - Liberty

What were the biggest differences between the two different campaigns internally?

>>96060

Rand's campaign was staffed with establishment folk but also holdovers from Ron's campaign. Good juxtaposition would be the campaign manager Chip vs the Iowa crew who were largely Ron Paul 2012 people like David Fischer who is OG Ron Paul 08. The vast majority of them had political training in one way or another but it wasn't as diehard libertarian as Ron obviously. Rand made a big mistake in surrounding himself with establishment message crafters who wouldn't let Rand be Rand. Also didn't embrace his father until too late.

Gary's campaign was Ron Nielsen lackeys (a fun rabbit hole would be to find out who exactly Ron Nielsen is and the influence he held over Gary/the LP), Bill Weld disaffected republican types who brought money and an air of respectability to the campaign (seriously), and lolbertarian party nitwits who's never had a proper "how to win" course in their entire existence. Added in a lot of lolbertarian party folk were actively trying to sabotage Gary/Bill it made for a fucking disaster dumpster fire. Checks were always late with GJ but never with Rand

Rand and Gary's campaigns had a lot of problems. Rands was more well run, it's just Rand failed to capitalize on a lot of the remaining political capital Ron built, has a wet noodle personality, and sucks at fundraising. And I say that as someone who has a lot of respect for Rand based off the few personal conversations I've been able to have with him. Gary's was a dumpster fire and an utterly blown opportunity. Gary paid a lot better though. GJ also offered to go riding and smoke a doobie with him if I'm ever in New Mexico. Cool guy, just really goofy.

I dont see how /liberty/ is dead but whatever

What is biggest difference between LP and GOP

>>96061

Is it true that on election night, GJ was so high he didn't even know the election was that night?

>>96063

I don't visit 8ch much but figured I had to put something. Much busier than I thought, which is good.

Pragmatically speaking, the biggest difference is that the GOP (and Dems) is a dumpster fire that can actually win a race and the LP is a dumpster fire that has no chance. As much as we all hate to admit it, 85-95% of voting Americans fall in to two camps: R or D, and will vote based on that. The remaining either are 3rd party or single issue voters. This is why there's a down-ballot effect - i.e. If you run as R candidate for County Commission in a heavily R congressional district, youre more than likely gonna win. An LP candidate can have the best messaging and strategy ever but once election day comes around he's still going to get blown out.

Republicans and Democrats start with 43-45% right off the bat and only need to influence the 6% that will get them to 50%+1. A LP candidate needs to convince the 50%+1 to vote. Economically speaking, where are resources better allocated? The path of least resistance or the path of monumental effort? Smart libertarians bite the bullet and run as an R or a D and attempt to influence from the inside, for better or worse. That makes you more beholden to a party, but if you pull a Ron Paul or Massie move then it really doesn't matter too much anyway.

That's why you see groups like Young Americans for Liberty shilling so hard for Republican state house candidates that they've vetted. I've seen the questions and gone through a mock interview with them to see what it's like and they're pretty fuckin' thorough and don't accept the vast majority of candidates. In my opinion, it's the most important thing a libertarian organization has done in the last 10 or so years in the wake of Ron Paul's campaigns. If that had happened in 2009 instead of 2019 then we might have a different country. C'est la vie. That's not to say education, innovation, and changing hearts and minds isn't important either, but if we're waiting for the world to wake up and accept Rothbard and Mises as their lords and saviors then we're gonna be waiting a long time.

Don't get me wrong, I know a lot of people in the LP and their hearts are well and truly in the right place, but their energies aren't. And all of the electioneering I just talked about could radically change over the next few years, but I won't hold my breath.

I'd expand more on this but I've already written a small essay.

>>96068

Wouldn't doubt it. I think he's telling the truth when he said that he didn't get high the entire campaign, but his brain is so fried anyway that it didn't make a damn difference. Goofy Gary.

>>96098

>YAL

Complete faggots out west, but they're doing god's work out east.

>>96100

Yeah unfortunately the west is cucked lol. It does frustrate me a bit cos, while I'm a donator and big supporter of YAL, they've really alienated themselves from the Mises Institute and Ron Paul.

>>96100

>but they're doing god's work out east.

I'm on a campus in Atlanta and that isn't true here. First meeting I went to one of the members was saying he still supported some kind of "social safety net" provided by muh gubmint, there was still lingering support for the LP, and the group chat had people counter-signaling how Black Panther was a movie that provided good role models for the negroes, which was around the time I left the group.

>>96059

What was Aleppo?

At least the board isn't as dead as actual liberty.

>>96129

toplel

>>96113

I think that Gary isn't a philosophical libertarian, he's just a type of guy who thinks "ah yeah this stuff worked when I was a governor and when I was in business so it should work at a larger scale". He's not gonna read Hazlitt or Mises or whatever cos he's more interested in how it works. He's not a dumb guy, its just philosophy isn't his thing. In other areas, namely fitness, and weed, he's smart on.

>>96128

That day that he had that interview was when we all started phoning it in. I spent the last few weeks doing the bare minimum and my coworkers subcontracted themselves out to other campaigns. I was the only one who worked in the office the last week and I would smoke a fat bowl in my car then go play TF2 for a few hours while I waited for the high to come down, do the bare minimum, smoke more and then go home.

Negotiated a big bonus as well too, which was nice. Thanks Gary.

did you smoke with gary?

>>96135

Unfortunately not. I live in another country now ans I've stopped smoking. I'd like to go on a bike ride with the man but we'll see how that goes. I do have his number so I can text him when I'm in New Mexico but I dunno when that will be.

Heres a fun one for you all: during the campaign we had an event in NM where Gary went on a 100 mile ride to prove that he was "fit to be president" - the event was just an excuse for Gary to go on a long bike ride. The man likes bike rides and exercise.

>>96149

He's too good for presidency. He should might as well create a low-income self-sustenance community.

Besides, we have Trump and he's doing a "great job."

>>96287

Gary "Bake that Cake" Johnson? Too good for presidency?

How about no.

Are you a beltway libertarian?

>>96293

He says he lives in another country.

>>96132

> I was the only one who worked in the office the last week and I would smoke a fat bowl in my car then go play TF2 for a few hours while I waited for the high to come down, do the bare minimum, smoke more and then go home.

this is what I imagined working for the libertarian party to be like

>>96059

>gary johnson

anon, i-

Sorry for the late response.

>>96293

Nope. Beltway cosmopolitan libertarians are a joke. I worked in the Kochtopus for a bit but ended up just getting the heebiejeebies from it all. Too many times I see libertarians go into D.C. and just get sucked in their network and never amount to anything useful beyond pushing academic programs and policy research for IHS or CATO. I'm much more a cryptoanarchist Mises Institute type guy, which I think is why I fell out of electoral politics and the LP.

Also because the LP is a joke. Have I mentioned that yet? It's a really important point.

>>96339

It was pretty nice, and bad at the same time. That's what happens when you put up Dopey "Bake the Cake" Gary up and let him commit every gaffe on the planet while running. I don't like Bill Weld but he would have been a better candidate than Gary.

In my opinion it should have been McAfee. That would have been fun.

>>96415

Honestly, I dunno. I wasn't involved with the LP in any capacity until after the convention. And even then, I took the job because it was an opportunity to bring new young faces into the movement regardless of how I felt about Gary Johnson. The money was nice too. Pretty disrespectful in my honest opinion but I also fail to see the reason why AP would give Gary a flintlock pistol in the first place. Especially given the reservations every libertarian had about Johnson.

>>96407

I regret not voting for McAfee in the primaries.

Why DT elect Barrfag for attorney general?

>>96434

Exactly what I’m thinking. I hope we see him on the ballot in 2020 he loves guns.

>>96434

>>96441

Wasn't McAfee the one who got up on the LPC stage, and shunned everyone for being so white and male?

>>96442

I thought that was a joke he was making or something?

>>96482

>whale fucking

Oh God that's hilarious. I love when he goes on about that. It's so bizarre.

>>96482

>it didn't sound to MEEEE

Post it ffs.

It's a joke, he's shitting on the LP. It just didn't go over well.

>>96542

It would be funny if there were some Seinfeld theme song playing.

Gonna give this a cursory bump.

OP I know you mentioned you're more of a crypto-anarchist now but do you think agorism is a valid strategy for achieving liberty or do is need to be combined with something else?

>>96482

He inspired more confidence than Darryl Perry, who would have scared off anyone not into AnCap philosophy (or at least aware of it). McAfee would have been fun if nothing else I will give you that

Nobody went for Marc Allan Feldman but he was funny. Shame that he died.

Austin Petersen would have had the best chance though. But he is yet another example of any good candidates we do have just go to the republican party so we get left the weirdos. Part of that is ancaps who say voting sucks but bitch about any non ancap who wins the nomination. Mostly because they treat the Libertarian Party as a social club rather than a political party. If you won't to go jerk off about how "pure of a libertarian" you are, go to the Mises and Cato Institutes.

The whole 2016 Election seemed like a squandered opportunity to end the two party system. This time around you had two spoilers with both the Greens and Libertarians both getting record support. Gary just couldn't get to the 15% that he needed to debate (this is done to maintain the two party system) and Stein couldn't rally enough former Bernie Bros.

>>97292

>The whole 2016 Election seemed like a squandered opportunity to end the two party system.

That's not something that just goes away, you know. The electoral college and the requirement to win a majority in each state incentivizes people to congregate in two parties, even if people are really unsatisfied with the current party that doesn't remove the two party system, it just replaces the old two parties with two new ones.

>>97171

Sorry for the late response. I think Agoism is a great path forward. Operating outside the state in ways that you can and rendering it obsolete is probably the most viable way of getting to a stateless society, but as with anything you can't rely on one solution. It's why I still think that political options, like local government takeovers, are still needed as these entities still exist in the present (again, why Young Americans for Liberty are so important). Likewise, collaborating with as many libertarians that you can to bring about this is going to be much more effective than shunning any of them who dont adhere to your brand of libertarianism is going to yield greater results. Too often I see libertarians shunning others because of their one true scotsmanisms instead of embracing the 95% we have in common.

But fuck the leftists in the libertarian party, like Nick Sarawak. Literal chapo traphouse infiltrators. The cuck who stripped at the 2016 convention is a shill too. Theyre all shills.

Be vigilant.

>>97442

Thanks for answering OP. Your wisdom means a lot.

>>97292

A lot of what you described about the LP reminds me of what McAffee's VP said during his interview on the Tom Woods show.

>>97294

so representative democracy in continental europe is better than representative democracy in the usa?

>>97565

It's more "representative", insofar as there are more major parties. If you consider representative government to be good, then you probably consider it "better." Not many of us here particularly care for representative government, so we wouldn't say that.