/liberty/ - Liberty

Life is not a right, it's a privilege.

>>94141

Wrong, life is a right since it's universally appliable (you don't violate other lives simply by existing). Good living conditions though, are a privilege, because you need to work for them, and you can't force other people to work for your own purposes.

You're not entitled to a good life, but you have the right to pursue it so long as you don't try to interfere with others' same pursuits.

Because of the Fall.

Read Genesis.

You don't.

You don't necessarily have to, but you might have to "earn" the kind of living acceptable to you. The concept that everyone needs to "earn a living" though needs to be done away with as some axiom because it encourages inefficiency for some moralistic purpose. To paraphrase Buckminster Fueller, if we agree universally that all people have to "earn a living" then many of us feel obligated to create opportunities for people to "earn a living" so they have a fair chance at "pulling their weight" even if such opportunities don't represent a real need in a marketplace or occupation. This is how you get inspectors of inspectors and people making and selling tools for the inspector inspectors as well as most middle-management makework jobs.

>>94589

You'd have a point if it weren't for the fact I DIDN'T CHOOSE TO BE BORN.

>get born

>society expects me to be a wage slave

No thanks.

>>94590

Why not just kill yourself then?

Because we live under a capitalist society in which if you want to have a par / above par standard of living it is effectivly essential for you to either

A. Work for a wage

B. Become the owner of your own capitalist enterprise (which won't happen for the vast majority of humanity)

>>94590

You know what to do.

>>94599

You don't seem to realize that for the vast majority of our existence as a species the only options were to

2) Die

1) Struggle against nature every hour of every day of your life and then die

The fact that the hyper-competent can start companies in their twenties and become billionaires by the time they are 40 points to the incredible liberating power of capitalist society. The fact that said society can then harnesses that productive energy and redistributes it nonviolently, such that the rest of us have the choice to work 40 or even less hours a week and live comfortably into our 80s without even trying is a goddamned miracle.

>>94590

You didn't choose life, but the ones responsible for bringing you into it are not the entirety of the human race. You have only two people that have to answer to you. Besides, you can always end it. Society owes you nothing, entitled anon. As you do to them.

>>94581

You don't have to be a billionaire to do that. That's like ~$3,000 dollars in cash and at best and that champagne is probably like ~$100 and some louis vuitton watches [only brand and not the actual face so I'm guessing cheapos].

If you're single and have a decent job you could recreate this picture, it won't impress anyone who actually has money.

>>94601

You don't need to deny that wild creatures either succeed or die. However, to imply that every single moment of life must be stressful is dishonest. I bet not one ant struggles every hour of its life. They don't have the capacity to "struggle". Most creatures, I'd argue, only "struggle" when they are being eaten. They do what they do and it works for them. The question is always "why, therefore, is doing what I do insufficient?" the answer, of course, is "Because what you do doesn't work with the kind of society everyone has built up until now". This means different things to everyone, but the end-all be-all answer isn't "LOL just get a job, you're meant to be miserable you fucking idiot, if you're not good well too bad you're still alright". That's a dumb, dumb way of thinking.

>>94601

Marxists actually do accept the achievements of capitalism and admit its superiority over pre-Capitalist modes of Production

We just don't view it through a moral lense and instead through the lens of Materialism and thus we determine its usefulness to society by different factors such as the standard of living it allows for the majority of its citizens and so on

Even Proudhon while accepting the achievements of capitalism still wished to break down class distinctions and allow all citizens to become part of a Universal capitalist which is effectivly opposite the idea of Marx

>>94632

>Even Proudhon while accepting the achievements of capitalism still wished to break down class distinctions and allow all citizens to become part of a Universal capitalist which is effectivly opposite the idea of Marx

<But when you enter a country after a socialist revolution has already won to, in your words, implement capitalism, overthrow the socialists, and disband soviet rule, that's "Communism!"

We've got potshots we can take at you, too… and frankly, not only are you the newcomer to this shit (by a couple thousand years plus), but you're wrong.