/liberty/ - Liberty

>>93575

>moral standards

Fuck off back to /pol/ with the rest of the authoritarians.

>>93578

>anyone with sensibilities and standards of their own is a /pol/ack

In regards to race:

On a very basic level I don't care what race someone is as long as they conduct themselves in a manner befitting a human being. It just happens that, while I find idiotic/asinine behavior across the entire skin color spectrum, it tends to be more concentrated the darker you go. And I have good enough pattern recognition skills to know to prepare for the worst when darkies are involved.

Still, behave and I don't give a shit.

>>93575

I have no concern with the race of other people. I judge people as individuals, rather than by heritage, stereotypes, statistics, or slight biological differences (00.01%). I also don’t care if people of different races want to breed with one another, nor do I see it as anything morally wrong. I do not believe in open borders, but I have no problem with people of different ethnicities coming over here through our current legal system.

>We need desperately ostracization and societal pressures to conform to moral standards.

Whose moral standards? What standards would that be? Why should we care?

>>93575

i agree with you OP

>>93587

>or slight biological differences (00.01%)

Noise to signal ratio, because of the large amount of DNA that doesn't change between people even a small change percentage-wise causes significant and visible results. Remember, you share 97% of your genes with chimpanzees and 50% with cabbages. I can sympathize with the idea of judging people as individuals, but that doesn't mean you can't be aware of averages and what they entail.

Eh I'm somewhat aware of the differences between races but I try to treat everyone as people first. Though the race thing does stick in the back of my mind.

obviously most """""libertarians"""""" are "concerned with race" lol

Multiculturalism and integration in the US was only possible through state oppression

The south never agreed to allowing niggers to be citizens

We never agreed to redistributive welfare

We were forced at GUNPOINT to integrate schools

And now they're only crying harder and demanding more gibs

yet towns are more segregated than ever

This is why Amren frames the whole thing as a freedom of association issue

>>93660

No, for individuals that does make sense. But there are frequent areas where you can't judge everyone individually, such as choosing into what neighborhood you will move. In those cases, it's far more expedient to just use biology and averages to make your decision instead of personally interviewing everyone in the municipality to see if they are a Baste Black Man™ or not.

We're all descendants of Adam and Eve.

Any distinct ethnic group after Babel are gone because it's been over 3000 years and everyone is mixed at this point.

>>93997

We're the same in the sense we all have a soul and are made in the image of God, part of the Adamic race.

We're not the same culturally.

>>93998

The differences are genetic and inheritable as well as cultural. You're more than free to say you don't care about those differences if you so choose, but it's not correct to say they don't exist.

>>93996

actual npc babble

< 26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; (Acts 17:26 KJV)

shared humanity is not shared nationality

>>94001

I never said we have shared nationality, retard.

>>93999

Ofcourse there are genetic differences, but they're minuscule when you look at the bigger picture.

It's unhealthy to be obsessed with race like the radical left and stormfags are.

Ideas and culture are what's important. I don't care what your skin color is, I care what values you hold.

>>94004

Nationality =/= Ethnicity

Do you not know the difference?

A lot of ethnic Russians live in countries outside of Russia. I'm talking about the human ethnic make-up, not nation states or borders.

>>94006

Also the Biblical definition of "nation" is different from the modern view of a nation.

Biblical nation was indeed about ethnicities/races. Because we're all mixed mutts after thousands of years, nation doesn't mean the same thing anymore.

>>94006

I know, as am I and the Bible we're referencing

I am not using nation to mean nation-states

The Bible affirms the continuing existence of separate ethnicities, also rendered as nations, through time until the events of revelation and into perpetuity in the new earth

<9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; (Rev. 7:9 KJV)

>they're minuscule when you look at the bigger picture.

compared to what? do you have a genetic sampling of the pre-babel races?

>>94007

>we're all mixed mutts after thousands of years, nation doesn't mean the same thing anymore.

This is what I mean by NPC babble

You are spitting out NWO propoganda that is not consistent with the Bible

>>94008

>compared to what? do you have a genetic sampling of the pre-babel races?

It's obvious from the Genesis genealogies and just basic common sense (entropy and decay, more and more mutations in our DNA).

There are no "pure" races left unless you're some native living in an isolated tribe for generations. Most likely at one point in your family tree your parents fucked someone from another ethnicity, or migrated to/from another nation. My point is that being obsessed with "racial purity" is retarded. In short: stormfags are gay.

That doesn't mean I'm a globalist, I'm anti-NWO and fully understand their agenda and the occult societies and secret orders that operate behind the scenes (since Babylon). Sovereign independent nationalism is good because it provides a bulwark against Satan's attempt at reviving his Babel project.

>>94010

I'm questioning how much anything is worth if it involves putting up with the immense amounts of shit that comes from certain minority demographics.

>>94013

>I'm questioning how much anything is worth if it involves putting up with the immense amounts of shit that comes from certain minority demographics.

If you want to lower your quality of life in pursuit of racial purity, that's fine by me. Just don't be surprised when the rest of us choose to get our houses designed by a great black architect as opposed to a mediocre white one. Race is not the metric most of us use to determine who we associate with right now. That won't change unless you use the state to enforce shit laws.

I think free association is something you have to embrace if you truly love freedom, meaning you can kick niggers out of your shop if you want, or boycott nigger products the same way people can kick you out of their shop and boycott your products if they think you are a racist asshole

personally speaking I like to keep my options open, I could exercise extreme caution and ban niggers from my store to keep shoplifters out, but that bars me from the option of selling things to niggers, I would much rather do it on a case by case basis

>>94014

This.

'Racial purity' is retarded. Love isn't a mechanical thing. If you fall in love with a woman from a different race, who is anyone else to say you can't marry her?

Granted yes, most people marry (and are only attracted to) members of their own race because that's how human nature works. But there are exceptions, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Racism is primitive tribal collectivism.

>>94018

Do you believe people can migrate to the U.S. for a better life and to be a productive member of society?

I'm not talking about rapefugee invading orcs, I'm talking about a legal request for entry that has happened for centuries since America is a melting pot of ethnic backgrounds from people who escaped shitholes.

also

>I am a white nationalist

So the only reason you're proud of your country is because of the majority's skin color..?

Not because of capitalism, conservatism, Christianity, morality, values, Protestant work ethics, gun ownership, private property, freedom of speech and freedom of religion?

>>94021

>he is proud of his country

not him, because I am not a white nationalist (anglokikes are cancer) but you are clearly putting words in his mouth, nowhere did it say he is proud of his country at all, you could infer he has some pride in the founding principles since he mentions he shares them, and one of the founding principles was that is was truly the offspring of european people, him liking that aspect of it does not mean he dislikes the other aspects of its founding like freedom, he in fact mentions he is a libertarian

>>94022

He should just say he's a nationalist or American nationalist.

Putting "white" before nationalist assumes he's a nationalist based on whiteness instead of culture. It's just like communists putting "social" before justice, thus perverting justice.

>>94021

>America is a melting pot of ethnic backgrounds

Every single one of your moral and philosophical claims have been vain platitudes

>Do you believe people can migrate to the U.S. for a better life and to be a productive member of society?

No. Any non-european culture is inherently incompatible with America. You can not have a first world nation with third world people.

I'm in favor of all that you listed and more, and none of it is in contest with my being of European heritage

>>94023

You have it backwards, so called "civic nationalism" is the exception that requires clarification, since nation is inherently etymologically tied to ancestry

I only say "white nationalist" because that's my racial group

>>94024

American backgrounds consist of Germans, Irish, Polish, Italian.. etc. Different ethnicities. America wasn't founded by one ethnicity.

>b-but they're white!

So the only thing they had in common was their skin color. Back in their European homelands, these people had massive cultural differences. So again, this is proof that America was founded on IDEAS, not race.

Pilgrims escaped Europe to the 'new world' to create a nation that wouldn't make the same mistakes Europe did. They saw themselves as Christians first and foremost, not "white". Granted some say America was founded by Freemasons, but again it's all about ideas and culture - they weren't obsessed about race like stormfaggots are.

>No. Any non-european culture is inherently incompatible with America. You can not have a first world nation with third world people.

You seem confused. I'm not talking about multiculturalism where Ahmed or Pajeet come to your country only to leech off welfare while hating his host country like a parasite.

I'm talking about people who want to assimilate into American culture and be part of it, regardless of their ethnic backgrounds or past. Ever heard of the American dream? People escaped shitholes during the Cold War to start a good life in America. This is different from the forced multikult that happened in Europe.

Vid related, one of the best thinkers in American history is a black man. I guess people like him and

>Candace Owen

>Larry Elder

>Jesse Lee Peterson

>David Clarke

should just fuck off back to Africa am I right? They have the right culture/ideas but their skin color happens to be wrong according to your retarded logic. There is nothing more frightening to the Left than a conservative black man.

>>94025

Nation meaning ethnic ancestry in Biblical terms, yes.

But guess what, we don't live in 2000~1000 BC anymore. Again, you're a mixed mutt. You're not part of some pure racial group. "White" is broad and vague, what exactly is your real ethnicity? Slavic? Anglo? French? Are Armenians white? What about Berbers and Turks who can have very white skin tones?

We're all descendants of Adam and Eve, our first parents. The Flood was a genetic bottleneck that limited our ancestry to one of Noah's 3 sons: Shem, Ham and Japheth.

Being race-obsessed is retarded and gay, and the Bible doesn't agree with stormfaggot propaganda. Marry who you love, regardless of her ethnicity. If you're so concerned about "da whyte race" why don't you go marry a "white" woman and make lots of babies? Well, what are you waiting for champ?

>>94026

you are a lemming

>>>r/The_Donald

>>94028

I'm not a socialist/collectivist, so no.

People are individuals. Identity politics is herde mentality.

>>94014

I don't care about racial purity. I care about things like, say, the black race's apparent predilection for violent crime. Of course there are productive, decent, upstanding black people. What I'm saying is that if I have to take a package deal on blacks, it's kind of looking like a shitty fucking deal.

>>94034

The black problem is because of welfare state and fatherless homes, not because there's magic voodoo in their blood to commit crime as stormfaggots like to believe.

There was less crime in the 60's and before. Blacks had supportive dads and had jobs. That changed when liberals introduced the welfare state and told blacks they should feel like victims instead of taking responsibility for themselves.

The Democratic party/Leftists are the problem. They promise gibmedats for minorities if they vote democrat, keeping them enslaved to the democratic party while their situation never improves because leftists don't care about blacks.

>>94036

>The Democratic party/Leftists

Wew, lad. That's a pretty huge gap.

>>94045

Only in theory, leftist.

>>94036

People have free choice and rational thought. If your natural inclination is to choose be a parasite, you deserve all the shit you get.

>>94047

They choose to be parasites because they are given the option to be one.

>Get money for free

>Work to earn your money

Which do you think most people would choose if given the option?

Abolish the welfare state, and blacks are forced to develop a work ethic to survive rather than sucking on the government's titties.

This has nothing to do with race. There are plenty of white NEETs on this website that are also parasites.

>>94048

How does it feel being wrong?

https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateAltRight/comments/72q5z1/how_do_you_answer_thomas_sowells_take_on_race_and/

>muh IQ

argument has already been debunked and destroyed decades ago by Thomas Sowell.

>>94036

In retrospect, I wonder why exactly the left fixated upon blacks as a suitable target for this. I can GUESS as to why, but that's all they are - guesses.

>>94061

>How does it feel being wrong?

I wouldn't know. Let's see:

>reddit

kek

>townhall.com

literally who

>research

It wasn't an actual research. Research would have been published at www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

>Thomas Sowell

nigger

>source is his own book that only holds theory

So writing a book is research now and it instantly turns into undeniable proof.

>the central point is "Since the black-white difference in IQ is 15 points, this means that an even larger IQ difference has existed between different generations of the same race, making it no longer necessary to attribute IQ differences of this magnitude to genetics"

>"this means that an even larger IQ difference has existed between different generations of the same race"

No, it doesn't. And even if it does… what does that prove exactly? IQ tests from 2000 show that the actual difference between white and black races is still more than 25 IQ on average. Just disregard that, amirite, fellow redditor? Based black said it's no longer necessary to attribute IQ differences to genetics, it must be right! I mean, there's a BOOK. Wow.

>>94066

>>94065

>>94048

>MOMEE MOMEE THE MEAN NIGGRES BEAT ME UP AT SCHOOL AGAIN

Come back here when you're old enough to understand that discrimination on the basis of race as opposed to ability is something adults can't afford to do.

>Even assuming this claim of yours is true, and the whole economy would be crippled without your precious baste black men (which I highly doubt) that's no reason to introduce them into our communities

If your autism prevents you from making use of talented men and women, that's your problem. If you refuse to allow civil, intelligent people into 'your' community, that's your problem. I will happily work with the best and outcompete you.

There's a reason segregation required government intervention.

>Rationalist™ enlightened centrism

Where do you think you are, you cretin? We're radical voluntaryists here. Our position isn't centrist in the least.

>baste

>CENTRISM

>virtue signalling

>doubleposting

Back to halfchan you go.

>>94071

>discrimination on the basis of race as opposed to ability is something adults can't afford to do

But why? They're a net loss on the economy of the country. Let's say there's a nigger that performs well in a society, that's good right? Yeah, except he will still give birth to niggers and he's also leaking the wealth outside the country to his poor relatives, or better yet has them migrate to his country to leech off welfare. Besides, we can leave the talk about what we can and can not afford when everyone stops pretending that niggers aren't inferior and shoving them everywhere for diversity. Come up with an actual argument instead of giving that retard with his reddit article a reason not to feel bad for being such a retard.

>>94072

>can and can not afford ``for`` when

>>94072

>They're a net loss on the economy of the country

You're in /liberty/, not r/politics.

Parasitism and dysgenics are emergent properties of the democratic state. Remove said state and it's redistributive, socialism-lite policies and be amazed as society sorts itself out with the competent at the top and the useless at the bottom.

>Come up with an actual argument

Read my posts again. I have been making the same argument since the first one.

Blacks might have lower IQs on average (debatable, but irrelevant). This does not change the fact that some blacks are highly competent and intelligent. Any enterprise (e.g. an ethnonationalist village) that refuses to make use of these people will lose out to one which does.

>he will still give birth to niggers

Since when do based and redpilled 'race realists' not believe in genetics? IQ is highly inheritable for all humans. The 'regression to the mean' argument you seem to espouse reeks of a contrived justification for racism.

>instead of giving that retard with his reddit article a reason not to feel bad for being such a retard.

The one thing we for sure agree on is that retard who unironically posted a link to reddit is a retard. If I made him feel less bad, I did so unintentionally.

>>94071

>Come back here when you're old enough to understand that discrimination on the basis of race as opposed to ability is something adults can't afford to do.

You know, there's a reason leftists kvetch about "underrepresentation" in the technical fields, it's because there are precious few niggers with the skill or the inclination to enter them. The human capital lost if skilled niggers were not employed is negligible, especially when you account for the fact that many of them are just underskilled diversity hires, whose absence may actually increase productivity. Further, any productivity loss is more than compensated for by the severely reduced overhead firms will face; no more need for an HR department, and the legal team will be smaller as discrimination lawsuits aren't a risk. And guess what? Even if after all that, there's still a shortage of technical workers, wages will just slightly increase to make the positions more competitive, and labor supply will meet lessor demand again.

And all of that is just focusing on that tiny, tiny proportion of niggers that are skilled professionals. The nigger population as a whole is not a net positive. Removing them removes a third of the welfare state. It removes the most criminal demographic in the country. Police wouldn't need to be nearly as geared up in a diversity-free society, inner city property values would soar, and the trust level in communities would go up as they become more homogenous. These myriad benefits more than offset the marginal negatives of losing a few tokens.

>>94074

>refuses to make use of these people will lose out to one which does

I'm not saying we can't make use of them at all. Also they are few, so this is not particularly relevant to begin with. In current system it will lead to damage to economy no matter how you turn it.

>IQ is highly inheritable

Yes, but what are the chances one black will find another highly intelligent one? And then the chances of their offspring not turning to crime and finding another intelligent pair? Higher end black IQ still equals lower end white IQ. Retardation in whites is identified when they have <70 IQ which slightly less than average black IQ.

>Remove said state

Well, we can't just remove the imperfect state. I would if I could. That's why I said we should promote race realism before all else. Niggers will ruin everything before you make the breakthrough.

>>94074

>it's redistributive, socialism-lite policies and be amazed as society sorts itself out with the competent at the top and the useless at the bottom

Some populations are more parasitic than others, and the state isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Until it does, it only makes sense to pursue our private preferences through public means, and attempt to minimize the state's negative impact. And a socialist state enabled by shitskins hurtles towards destruction much faster than one in a homogenous population; Occupied Rhodesia went from the jewel of Africa to a humanitarian basket case in barely a handful of years after ZAPU took over, the Scandinavian socialist countries have been doing it for over fifty years, and are only just starting to feel the pressure.

>>94077

You know, all this blathering about IQ has reminded me that even literal retards can and do engage in constructive behaviors. Nothing terribly complicated, necessarily, but even someone with Down's syndrome can do a number of basic, useful tasks. Moreover, I wouldn't say there's any such thing as a retard crime wave in known history.

So IQ, while a reasonable barometer of potential for success perhaps, is neither a guarantor of success nor a guarantor of utter failure.

>>94082

Machines can theoretically do a lot of things, and yet lo and behold we do not live in a society that is 99% automated. Slavery is just stupid.

>>94075

>there are precious few niggers with the skill or the inclination to enter [technical fields]

Not really. I know quite a few. My black university flatmate studied Chemeng.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/828874/number-of-stem-degrees-awarded-in-the-us-by-race/

>Removing them

You disgust me. You really do.

>>94087

>flatmate

As a bong in university, you're not even exposed to the usual gamut of niggers. Your classmates are the sons of Africa's cream of the crop, not Tyrone Loquacious from MLK Blvd. Your peers, in other words, are not representative of the vast majority of niggers. Props to you for neatky sidestepping all the other issues I brought though, choosing instead to focus on this autistically tiny portion of the population.

>>94094

>I'm tired of talking to disingenuous fascists who think they can peddle their shallow ideology here by pretending to hold """"libertarian"""" principles.

That's pretty much what you get on 8chan /liberty/. I used to think that a self-described "centrist" European guy I know was talking out of his ass when he said that fascists and ancaps are fundamentally the same people, but I get what he meant now. A lot of "libertarians" want the same stuff that NEETsocs do and have the same pernicious, ahistorical, and counterfactual beliefs about human beings from the biological to the macro-social scale but they just don't want the state to tell them how to do it. Oppression and inhumanity are alright if they're done by free human agents or private companies instead of le goberment. Sure they can agree that gays should be kicked out into the woods to starve and blacks should be shot if they step onto their front lawns, but a fashy state might outlaw their lolicon porn and that would be like another holocaust.

>>94094

>Everything I don't like is fascism REEEEE

Nice argument.

>Are you blind? My anecdote was immediately followed by statistical data.

Conveniently behind a paywall, and the data I've seen suggests otherwise.

>Your obsession with the state

Didn't say anything about the state, sweetheart.

>wish to associate with competent, friendly people. Some of those people are black. That is all.

Averages and modes, anon. Your outliers don't change them.

>you truly believe it would be easier to make the general population want to implement racial segregation by force than to eliminate the welfare state, you are ether disingenuous or insane.

Never said force either, dipshit. Freedom of dissociation means segregation will happen all on its own. People congregate where their in-group is most common, even with civil rights legislation discouraging it. Or do you think Chinatown is a statist conspiracy? Then again your flag says you think private property is theft, so I have no trouble believing that you've cajoled yourself into declaring eviction theft as well.

>>94096

>your flag says you think private property is theft

No.

The defining principle of mutualism as opposed to ancapism is that we view property as emerging from the ownership of one's labour exclusively, as opposed to being a convenient way to solve disputes.

We would say, for example, that you can own a house or a car, but not land rights or mineral rights since you did not create the land or the minerals.

>Conveniently behind a paywall, and the data I've seen suggests otherwise.

Convenient for you. It works for me.

Either way, there's this company called Alphabet which has a product you may have heard of. It's called google. It's really neat, you go to Google.com and type in the little search bar: 'racial breakdown of stem graduates in the US'. Click on search. It'll take you to a page where you can see what a bunch of statisticians have to say on the subject, for free. Here's one result I got:

https://trends.collegeboard.org/education-pays/figures-tables/students-stem-fields-gender-and-race-ethnicity

> the data I've seen suggests otherwise

<REEEEEE you didn't provide sources

<*doesn't provide sources himself*

This is how /pol/ argues. You make low effort shitposts, provide no sources and duck and weave under any argument that comes your way, but demand nothing less than complete intellectual honesty from your opponents.

>Averages and modes, anon. Your outliers don't change them.

I don't want average. I can't work with average. I need outliers.

>Didn't say anything about the state, sweetheart.

>Never said force either, dipshit

>the state isn't going anywhere anytime soon

>Until it does, it only makes sense to pursue our private preferences through public means

Ouch.

>>94140

There are many ways of minimizing the damaging effects of state disgenics which do not require the extreme amounts of violence against blacks state-enforced segregation necessitates. You are advocating for a drastic expansion of state power in order to solve a problem that you have refused to provide any proof exists.

>of those niggers that are smart their preferences aren't complete judging different from whites

Care to rephrase that in a way us non-schizos can understand? Are you trying to say smart blacks are still worse than smart whites because… reasons?

>diversity is our strength

Competent people are good at their job.

Some blacks are competent.

If I discriminate on the basis of race I'm missing out on competent blacks.

This is inefficient.

Wanting to associate with competent blacks =/= wanting to associate with all blacks.

Blacks are not a package deal.

Am I getting through to you?