/liberty/ - Liberty

Nice post-Soviet Russia = Somalia, lolberts btfo bait thread.

This post is either some low quality bait or the product of a significant lack of knowledge, my friend. The Soviet economy underperformed quite dramatically when compared to other developing economies, particularly after 1970. The drop you so gleefully point to is a result of the fact that said economy was mired in inefficiency and rotten to the core, and when it finally was allowed to freely compete with its western counterparts', it failed to hold up. This, and the lightning fast recovery in the years after 1999, indicate we are looking at a period of economic reorganisation, where the productive energies of the people are no longer being directed towards those industries and methods which the central planners had believed to be most efficient and, thanks to the free market, organically shift towards those which actually are. The site below should clear any misconceptions you might have had.

https://nintil.com/2016/03/26/the-soviet-union-gdp-growth/

In context, most ethnic slavs (well, at least the Russians, Ukrainians, and Khazaks) believe they had "pure unregulated capitalism" after the soviet union disbanded, and thus blame capitalism for everything/generally support mixed markets due to this widespread "fact" spread by the post-soviet governments. Context is key when calling someone a faggot.

Russia has and never will be libertarian, classically liberal or democratic. It will always be an Authoritarian shithole where the people submit to a single figure and the military. Until Marx came around, the one thing they ever knew was the Tsar. Then Stalin became what effectively is the Tsar. Now we have Putin, who is still effectively the Tsar.

They never had any native born great thinkers question if humans have inherent natural rights (to my knowledge) and so they remain a subjugated people.

>>72536

Russia has never been*

>>72536

>They never had any native born great thinkers question if humans have inherent natural rights (to my knowledge) and so they remain a subjugated people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Tolstoy

They were actually doing pretty alright up until the Commies came into power. Yeah they were about a century behind everyone else, but there were plenty of Russian philosophers and such. You gotta keep in mind that for most of "Russian" history they were being attacked by one foreign invader or another.

>>72536

The authoritarian trend was diminishing up until the second revolution removed democracy. Previous Tsars had abolished serfdom and established democratic parliaments, follow the same trend that other countries had done. You also had the first revolution itself, which was to create a democracy (and was only prevented from doing so by the Soviet putsch).

>>72536

>>72540

I heard that the Mongol invasions of Russia kind of made them authoritarian in a way and they never recovered socially from it. Is it true?

Maybe you should ask the US government that.

>>72536

They had a left leaning Libertarian strain of Christian Anarchism. Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky kind of, sort of represented that till it died forever.

The Russian Federation encompasses a lot of cultures and ethnicities. I wouldn't group them all together so easily, given how there's hardly a unilateral "Russian" identity. About which "The Russians" are we talking about?

>>72540

I always find it fascinating to imagine what Russia would be like had the revolution never happened. I think it would be economically stronger than it is now. However, I don't think they would have survived WW2 without going the route they did, unless they would have sat it out.

>>72567

They probably would not have done as well because the Depression would have destroyed their economy as well. Most economies were no bigger than they were in the early 20s when the war broke out.

>>72556

I'm not Russian nor an expert on Russia past some friends and teachers over the years, but the Tatars, Turks, pretty much what they call the golden horde ruled Russia for damn near 300 years. This "golden horde" weren't very terrible to the regular civilians, but they would hold young men from each village as hostages in their armies, and if any of the group of men disagreed to military service, they'd torture the entire group or in some cases even destroy the village the men came from. They also demanded slaves occasionally which would take the form of young children having a sheep's skin stretched across their head (with proper orifice holes cut out) and then left to tan in the sun in order to prevent head development to make them mentally stunted. It wasn't until Ivan The Great (Ivan III, Ivan Grozny's grandfather) came along that things really took a drastic change, and that was partially because of Ivan III using Mongolian-inspired methods to reclaim Rus territory. That's the "official history" from old slavs that I've heard over the years. I can't confirm, but it wouldn't surprise me if 300 years of conquest followed by rule by a bunch of assholes who were big on serfdom led to a lot of the group mentality. The Russians didn't really experience any major cultural shifts after Ivan Grozny until Peter the Great in the 1700s and after that is an even bigger clusterfuck, at least according to spoken history rather than written history.

>>72567

I think they likely would have sat out most of WWII since they wouldn't have had much stake in it if not for the October revolution given how unpopular Russia's involvement in WWI among the citizenry was from the start (the only reason the October revolution was even possible), and while they would have been hit hard economically, they might have come out better for it given how much Fred C. Koch supported the Russians prior to being stabbed in the back. If I recall correctly, at least according to Charles Koch, his dad saw them as a future source of business/trade for his sons and invested a shit ton of money in Soviet oil infrastructure before the commies inevitably stabbed him in the back by nationalizing his oil refineries he built for them at a deficit (and calling him a stupid American) even though they had a contract. Hence his writing "A Business Man Looks at Communism" and being so assblasted over Stalin for the rest of his life.

>Believing Soviet statistics.

gr8 b8 m8 8/8.

because right-wing libertarianism always fails m8, what did you think?

>>72513

Had a Russian guy explain this shit to me (though I couldn't understand half of it due to his Russian accent), but it was something about corrupt officials doing a shitty job of transitioning to a capitalist economy.

>>72640

>corrupt officials doing a shitty job of transitioning to a capitalist economy.

I'm sure those officials managed to transition themselves to a capitalist economy very comfortably.

>>72638

nothing lasts for ever

>>72685

Does Nothing even exist?