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/liberty/ - Liberty

Non-authoritarian Discussion of Politics, Society, News, and the Human Condition (Fun Allowed)
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WARNING! Free Speech Zone - all local trashcans will be targeted for destruction by Antifa.

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

 No.69601

how does one convince a european that rights aren't granted by the state

 No.69602

I think the notion that this is a "European thing" is a strawman. I've met plenty of Europeans who agree with the natural rights approach.


 No.69609

File: a2297f2a5fc7737⋯.jpg (64.33 KB, 900x700, 9:7, its joke.jpg)

>>69602

i just wanted a funee comment to go along with the video, i felt like it would be appropriate to post here


 No.69617

>>69601

the fact that he thinks that "natrual rights" mean literal rights that exist in nature is retarded.


 No.69633

Rights are just permissions from the state, unironically read Stirner.


 No.69635

>>69633

at least /leftypol/ is being more specific now.


 No.69638

>>69633

The state is one of the biggest spooks out there.

>>69601

I think this is the perfect thread to ask in, but what are some good books videos that explain and logically prove why rights are inherent in humans? Preferably, ones that don't focus on god given rights, as those are self-evident, but rather arguments that come from an atheistic point of view.


 No.69639

>>69601

recommend him or her korwin to listen to or to read to


 No.69646

>>69638

Not as big as your mum! :D


 No.69647

>>69638

There are none, they all rely on God, they just give it different names (e.g., Spirit, Idea, Rationality, Human Nature).


 No.69654

>>69638

Without any sort of relationship with a higher world, morality is just an empty and rigid command. No more than echo of the earlier religious morality. Once you start probing into it with 'why not though?'s it crumbles away.

Rights are just demands tbh


 No.69665

>>69601

Europe is dead


 No.69667

>>69638

I'd start by reading about Deontological ethics, there's not any books right off the top of my head but Murray Rothbard also has a whole host of literature in regards to natural rights.


 No.69696

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>69638

Basically this video. It's just proving inherent property rights through an unbroken chain of deontological ethical reasoning.


 No.69703

File: 689f36b244c750c⋯.jpg (16.1 KB, 233x243, 233:243, tfwgetsteppedon.jpg)

>tfw get threaded on


 No.69706

File: c6b8ced14d61c8b⋯.jpg (41.77 KB, 353x417, 353:417, c6b8ced14d61c8b262f32ce9ec….jpg)

How to convince capitalist to stop licking the boots of thier bosses.


 No.69709

File: be84d89ebaabe60⋯.jpg (45.01 KB, 644x598, 14:13, Adam and Eve commies.jpg)

>>69706

How do you convince commies to not be retarded?

also

> having a fetish for the IRA

Why did I expect anything different?


 No.69710

>>69706

I don't know, why not make the country adopt a political philosophy where instead of bosses you have the ruling class who have all the money and you have the workers who get paid in bread and water. That'd turn people against their bosses pretty quickly.


 No.69738

The idea of "having a right to" something is an artifact of the ambiguity of language. Traditionally, if one were to assert something true, like "the Sun is the largest object in our solar system", one could be said to "have the right of it". That is to say, "having the right of it" refers to being correct about something. In this way, having the right of life, liberty, or property means that one is correct in choosing to live, act upon one's own discretion, or control goods. However, "having the right of" something sounds grammatically like one possesses a discrete thing, called a "right". In this way, "having the right of" things comes to be misunderstood to mean that one possesses a set of discrete items called "rights", which leads to much of the confusion surrounding rights in common discourse.

The illusion of rights as discrete things opens up the line of thought that these things do not exist. The questions; "do we have rights?" or "do rights exist?" only can be entertained because we misunderstand the issue. Framed properly, those questions would become "can people be correct?" and "do correct answers exist?" respectively. The answers then trivially become "yes" and "not as concrete things".

The misunderstanding also makes it possible to arbitrarily extend the concept of "rights" to envelop nearly anything to suit one's purposes. Typically, these expansions are used to manufacture an obligation in others toward the person claiming the "right". For instance, some people claim that the "right to life" implies that others are obligated to provide the means to support that life, rather than the more accurate position that one is correct in choosing to live and pursuing those means for oneself.


 No.69740

>>69738

good to have you back, mang


 No.69759

>>69706

They don't. if they get fired, they can find another job, go entrepreneur, or just retire on their investments.


 No.69764

File: 3bd85f193b4ff40⋯.jpg (64.68 KB, 640x457, 640:457, ^04268470F6674C4250541C648….jpg)


 No.69795

>>69740

Thanks, I've been lurking. It's usually not worth putting on the FLM name. I try to maintain a certain standard of post under it.


 No.69897

>>69602

Shit bro, reverse is just as bad, I know plenty of Americans who believe that the State grants rights.


 No.69911

what is david friedma's opinion on nature of rights?


 No.69915

>>69911

He doesn't believe in them. Even wrote a pretty cancerous chapter in The Machinery of Freedom, a book that's very good otherwise, on the Rothbardian theory of rights and why he doesn't follow it. To him, anarchocapitalism is preferable because it's efficient, not because it's inherently just.




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