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 No.29562>>29569 >>29571 >>29578 >>29757 >>29805 >>29843 [Watch Thread][Show All Posts]

Hey guys I have an important question for you, I realize this has been discussed for millennia without reaching definite conclusions and will probably remain that way for some time but I'd like to know your thoughts and reasoning behind what you think the case is.

Do you think free will really exist?

 No.29565

File (hide): 1459920409410.jpg (13.01 KB, 255x213, 85:71, 1456437743161.jpg) (h) (u)

No, we aren't. We're bound by the norms of society and our own minds.

ily. :3


 No.29569

>>29562 (OP)

Free to think, but not free to do


 No.29571>>29574 >>29704

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>>29562 (OP)

If you don't have free will then what was it that forced you to make this post?


 No.29574

>>29571

A long thread on another board full of retards and a longtime obsession with the subject.


 No.29575

To quote Christopher Hitchens very poorly: "Of course we have free will, we have no choice but to have it."


 No.29578

>>29562 (OP)

>Do you think free will really exist?

Of course.


 No.29583>>29681

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Science and philosophy are inconclusive (no surprises there).

Philosophy cannot even successfully define free will. What is free, and what is willpower? A common thought experiment is this:

>in an empty space

>come across a fork in the road

>no indication whether right or left is the correct path

>which do you choose?

I'm paraphrasing a philosophy paper I read for uni a while ago, but you get the idea. Or perhaps you thought about it yourself before. Here's the problem:

Being capable of making a "choice" in this situation where there are no outside factors to influence the decision is not necessarily a good indication of free will. Because you do not care about the outcome, it only proves your ability to choose randomly. Whereas if you DO care about the outcome, then your choice is determined by your ability to assess the situation and act in your best interest. In other words, a choice cannot technically be free, nor willed. Even when you are obviously making a choice free from constraints.

However, the question of free will did not emerge from nowhere and it cannot be so easily dismissed either. At the end of the day, there is someone in your head who is doing some thinking, and he is capable of wasting his time thinking about free will. What is the purpose of this thought, if it is incapable of influencing the world around it and is merely along for the ride like on a rollercoaster? Obviously we would not have evolved to have such a vast consciousness if it serves no purpose. It must be involved in making decisions, in deliberating.

However, we just established that there is no such thing as a decision, and that sends us into a bit of an infinite loop. Even the phrase "I have thought about it, and concluded that I am not free" is a contradiction in terms.


 No.29594

I believe in free will the same way some others might say that they believe in fate, destiny, or divine plan.


 No.29681>>29706

>>29583

>it proves your ability to choose randomly

Randomness doesn't exist within determinism.

Randomness itself implies a degree of free will.

Free will itself is interesting though, because it implies that one has the ability to make a choice, but if one makes a choice, it must be based on something, and if its based on things, its subject to determinism.

Free will in that sense is rather paradoxical.

However, if we consider free will to be a case of spontaneity or randomness, then its not subject to determinism. However, randomness within itself doesnt indicate that we MAKE the choice. Its random. So its sort of like free will is an illusion caused by randomness within a deterministic system.

Perhaps its more like free will is the ability to act within the universe without being influenced by it. As long as youre the independent variable and not subject to the universes proceedings, that could indicate free will as well, which i guess is where the internal comes into play.

If the internal can can perform genesis from nothing (ie true original imagination, critical thinking that has its own agency), then free will is probably a definite.

Just throwing ideas out there to be criticized.


 No.29704>>29706

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Free will does not exist.

Everything is predetermined by our genes and the surrounding envorinment.

>b-but muh quantum physics

That argument implies that we are voluntarily in control of the random movement of electrons in sublayers.

>b-but muh unmoved mover

Surprise, the Universe is a never ending loop of bangs and crunches, not a linear arrow.

>>29571

I'd expect anyone from Monogatari but Crab. Change that image to one of the Fire Sisters, if you will.

To answer your question, his previous exposure to the subject, genetic predisposition to been keen in interest (some people are known with predisposition and tendency to have interest in certain fields and that is well known in psychology, neurology, etc), along with countless other factors that, together, have the unique result being this thread.


 No.29706>>29732

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>>29681

>Randomness doesn't exist within determinism.

>Randomness itself implies a degree of free will.

But if you chose randomly, how are you in control? Your choice is then determined by randomness, not your "willpower."

The problem is that we cannot even come up with a thought experiment wherein someone can be said to be "willing" something. Even thoughts generated from chaos, as you describe, do not really constitute a "will." Unless there is some supernatural force (like a soul) behind this spontaneous generation.

>>29704

What do you do with that knowledge? Does it change your outlook on life?


 No.29732>>29734

>>29706

Yes, it changes.

If I never knew what determinism or free will mean, I wouldn't be replying to this thread.

However, my knowledge, combined with the fact that I have the tendency to choose to post in threads about philosophical issues that I know of, and this very post of yours, ultimately results in this very post.

But I'm not under control of those changes.

I can choose what I do, but what chooses what I choose?


 No.29734

>>29732

I meant that as a serious question though. Do you not allow yourself to be disappointed, because you know that everything is beyond your control? Do you end your life because it is not worth living if you are not free?


 No.29757

>>29562 (OP)

There is free will, what you are asking is if you can actually act upon that free will

Short answer: only sometimes

If you hate working but don't have rich parents then you're going to have to work or you'll starve

You are free to hate work, hate your boss, and hate society, but you're not free to not starve, so you have to work


 No.29760>>29767

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 No.29767>>29768

>>29760

What is this?


 No.29768>>29769

>>29767

A reaction to alison rapp being doxed by whoever and subsequently fired by Nintendo.


 No.29769

>>29768

Not sure what it has to do with free will, unless the point is that free will exists because people can make intentionally stupid choices or something.


 No.29805

>>29562 (OP)

doesn't matter as long as you belief you can think free.

If you actual have an free mind, everything is fine and you can go along.

If your decisions are forced by some outer power the illusion of free choice also is and there is nothing you can change about. You can also move along on your predetermined way.

The only case you should worry about is then you actually have a free will but someone is denying or manipulating it.


 No.29836

Uh, no, it does not exist, as far as we know. Somebody was saying ti is inconclusive, but if you are skeptical enough you could say that red is blue, so. For example, why did you make this post, why did you feel the way that made want to make this post? why did that happen? what made the set events leading to this happen. There may be differnt reason behind there being no free will, but they add up to the same conclusion to our feelings of agency in the universe. If there is a reason that free will actually exist, it is beyond our comprehension because it goes against the fundamentle nature of logic it's self. Look the bright side, when you actually feel the full weight of your non-existance you become enlightend.


 No.29838>>29840 >>29857

From a scientific approach, 'free will' exists, if only in technicality. If you've heard of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, 'quantum randomness', or even radioactive decay, it's easy to see that it is impossible to determine with 100% accuracy how particles will act in the future. It merely becomes a probability that can predict with reasonably conviction. This is essentially the theory behind quantum immortality.


 No.29840>>29845

>>29838

So tossing a coin for each decision is the same as having free will?


 No.29843>>29844

>>29562 (OP)

I don't think free will exists unless you're god.


 No.29844>>29846

>>29843

God is dead.


 No.29845

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>>29840

No, that's why I specified "in technicality."

What I'm saying is that determinism, or at least arguing that human choices are all predetermined as reductionists would argue, is a flawed concept because nothing can be predicted with absolute certainty.

However, that is not to say that human consciousness exhibits what most people call "free will." That is a metaphysical and philosophical argument that remains unsolved.


 No.29846

>>29844

Then there goes your hope for free will.


 No.29857>>29858

>>29838

That is not the definition of freedom, that simply means that our actions are predetermined by erratic sources. Your point of veiw is always getting repeated and I do not know why,. Also that immorality is bogus, you are Simply projecting your self on to a foreign object simply because they are related.


 No.29858

>>29857

The point is repeated because some attempt to reduce human consciousness, and subsequently the notion of choice, to chemical phenomena in the brain. By refuting the notion that all physical phenomena are predetermined, their argument that free will cannot exist due to physical causality is null.

The remaining arguments for free will rest on unclear and varying definitions of consciousness, particularly the concept of a nonphysical human soul or mind as an agent of choice. If you want to discuss philosophy, I suggest reading on compatibilism, causal theories, and metaphysical libertarianism.

I would also implore you to consider the widely differing definitions of free will you find; there is not one universally accepted definition among theorists, and is a large point of contention.


 No.30035

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I like to think we have free will but like, everything is pre ordained, not some destiny bullshit but as danny sexbang put it in his awesome little story:

>you come to a crossroads

>need to go left or right

> you make a choice

>now you get taken back in time with no memory of what happened

>you will always chose the same path

so I just like to do what I want or what is best for me and enjoy the ride


 No.30252

iam

there 4 ,i think i am




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