dbea2b No.672093
Suppose that you went back to 1000AD and invented firearms, given the ability to utilize any modern manufacturing method how would you standardize firearms? Examples:
>No meme calibers, have ~5 extremely versatile calibers, sizes 2-4 have shotshell variants with the smallest size being similar to 22LR and the largest being 50BMG (yes there would be larger ones for heavy weapons but I don't know much about them)
>Universal platform like the AR-15 but with even more variety. Swap in a bolt-action receiver, put a stock on the back of a pistol and swap out the barrel to make it a carbine, swap out the barrel of a shotgun with a rifled one to make it a rifle, etc.
>Every screw is a phillipshead actually I haven't encountered any weapon where this isn't the case
>Use a consistent naming convention for weapons that conveys caliber, length, and receiver type. Examples:
>Carbine ->L(ight bullet)M(edium barrel)S(emiautomatic) -> LMS
>LMG -> H(eavy bullet)L(ong barrel)A(utomatic) -> HLA
>Survival rifle -> T(iny bullet)L(ong barrel)B(reak-action) -> TLB
>Pump shotgun -> M(edium bullet)M(edium barrel)P(ump-action) -> MMP
Of course you would probably change some of the words for receivers that start with the same letter, like B for bolt-action and break-action.
What other things do you wish you could change, /k/?
____________________________
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dbea2b No.672094
>>672093
Another thing about the calibers, using the same caliber for a short barrel and a long barrel isn't ideal since the powder would either finish burning after it leaves the short barrel or before it leaves the long barrel, but ammunition can be labeled with the length of barrel it is intended for by just having different powder rather than entirely different calibers. A long barrel bullet would still work in a short barreled gun of course, just not as efficiently.
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022bc7 No.672123
>>672093
>Every screw is a phillipshead
>designed to strip when over torqued
No thanks. Torx, allen, or pozidriv.
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d05b8c No.672158
>>672123
I'd argue for Robertson, simple, durable, and holds screws/bolts like it's magnetic.
Torx is an obnoxious piece of shit that get's all kinds of crap jammed in the tiny corners be it from the factory or in general use.
I have never seen an Allen (screw/bolt or tool) that doesn't break immediately, it's basically known as THE head for made in china shit for a reason.
If you had said Frearson instead of Pozidriv I could've respected that but you even fucked that up.
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a68a38 No.672172
>>672093
I wouldn't standardize anything. Mass production is the death of beauty and every gun is meant to be a one-of-a-kind piece of art capable of shooting the shit out of anyone that doesn't properly appreciate it.
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eba79d No.672173
>>672172
Can you imagine hand-crafted bullet with detailed pattern?
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2c3300 No.672179
>>672093
There's is actually a surprising amount of standardization already in place thanks to common caseheads. Most rifle cartridges have nearly identical sizes (the differences are so minimal that they are lost in practice due to the manufacturing tolerances), just look at the first pic. Then there are revolvers too, the most extreme case would be a revolver chambered for .410 shotshells that can fire .460 S&W, because then it could chamber .454 Casull, .45 Long Colt, .45 ACP, and .45 Schofield (and maybe there is one or two more that I forgot about). There is even a rimmed version of .45 ACP specifically for revolvers. And .45 ACP' shares its rim diameter with common rifle cartridges. In other words, if you had a rifle designed to fire a rimmed cartridge with the same rim diameter as these .45 revolver cartridges, then with a simple swap of the barrel (and possibly the magazine too) it could fire the whole host of revolver cartridges, maybe even the .410 shotshells too.
If you go a step down, you will see and other host of pistol cartridges, all of the descendants of the 7.65mm Borchardt. This includes 7.62 Tokarev (that is just an extremely hot load in practice) and 9mm Parabellum. And the size of their caseheads is the same as 5.56 NATO's. Needless to say, it's very close to .38 Special. Go down one more step. and you'll see that all those .30 calibre revolver cartridges are close to .30 carbine.
Considering all of this, I wouldn't reinvent the well, I'd just enforce the current situation, so that there are only common caseheads, lenghts and calibres. I'd make every cartridge straight-walled and either semi-rimmed or belted (I'm not sure which one is better). Of course semi-automatic firearms are rumoured to work less well with semi-rimmed ammunition, but that seems to be a baseless accusation to me. Just look at all those pistols from the beginning of the previous century that use semi-rimmed cartridges, not to mention all the commblock weapons that work just fine with 7.62 Russian. The Czech even made a push-through belt for that cartridge. And then there are all those Japanese weapons chambered for their semi-rimmed 6.5mm cartridge. But I digress.
In my endless wisdom I'd have these calibres for small arms:
>6.5mm
>8.5mm
>10.5mm
>12.5mm
And these would be the allowed lenghts overall lenghts of the cartridge (the case lenght might differ depending on a few factors, so it's better to standardize the maximum allowed OAL in my opinion):
>30mm
>45mm
>60mm
>75mm
>90mm
Casehead sizes are rather straightforward with straight-walled cartridges, they'd correspond to the allowed calibres. So if you want to make a cartridge you pick the casehead, the calibre and then one of the available lenghts. E.g. the rough equivalent of .454 Casull would use the 10.5mm calibre and casehead together with the 45mm OAL (yes, it would have less capacity and a smaller calibre). For a rifle cartridge roughly similar to 6.5mm Creedmoor you'd pick the 6.5mm calibre with the 10.5mm casehead and go for a 75mm OAL. Of course you might have to introduce additional options for all three of them. Not to mention that you'd still end up with quite a lot of variation when it comes to bottlenecked cartridges. But at least you wouldn't have all these very similar but not similar enough cartridges everywhere.
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022bc7 No.672180
>>672158
>Robertson
>durable
Easy to torque out.
>nu uh
Fuck you. 20 years of using that canacuck shit taught me otherwise.
>taper is magic
You must apply the same pressure as a philips as the screw is driven into the object, otherwise the screw pulls free from the taper and strips. At least with philips it strips slowly so you can easily replace or continue driving the screw.
Torx is still better.
>that get's all kinds of crap jammed in the tiny corners
All screws should be slotted by this logic.
>I have never seen an Allen (screw/bolt or tool) that doesn't break immediately
And I've never had one fail.
Your thread is shit and you're shit.
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80438a No.672245
Armies are given a standardized cartrige to work with. They are then required to design their own weapon around that cartridge. They will then train with it until the flaws in their design are realized and they make adjustments. This would teach them to respect and care for their weapon. It would also teach them multiple manufacturing skills depending on what they decide to go for.
Soldiers have a weapon to be proud of and become attached to. They become disciplined through the labor they put into their weapon and the stress of training training with it.
It would be far too expensive of a program for any reasonable military to adopt though.
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fdb1bb No.672274
>>672180
Allen is the best of the suggested but I'd just used a slotted phillips heads with appropriate screwdrivers. Torx is a piece of shit that torques out just as easily as phillips, but gives you false impression that it's more durable.
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d05b8c No.672278
>>672180
<Robertson
Since you posted like a complete retard I can safely place your opinion in the trash.
Also the basic concept of Robertson is what's used to drive hex sockets (I've used breaker bars with worn out detents and unless you do something stupid they don't just fall out of the socket when using em), you're honestly gonna sit there and tell me that those don't work?
<All screws should be slotted by this logic.
If it works great, or just don't have tiny driver details that are hard to remove foreign objects from.
<And I've never had one fail.
Bullshit, if the tool doesn't strip off it's "teeth" the head of the bolt explodes, which is incredible since actual hex heads (which are like 99.9% of the bolts used on machinery) don't have that problem even if it's the most low grade made in china crap ever devised.
<Your thread is shit and you're shit.
>Implying I'm OP.
>Plebbit spacing.
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8b7f29 No.672300
Only caliber that should exist is 10mm
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569855 No.672304
>>672300
>10x25mm for pistols
>10x40mm for rifles
>10x55mm for sniper/antimateriel/machine guns
>10x70mm for shotshells
Sounds good to me.
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fdb1bb No.672308
>>672304
>inadequate shot and powder capacity
>dogshit long range ballistics
>nonexistent penetration
>all rounds are different in performance, size and gun design considerations so absolutely nothing is saved, not even logistics
B-but it's the same diameter, so muh OCD isn't triggered!
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569855 No.672311
>>672308
>he thinks 10mm Auto lacks capacity
>he thinks he can judge long range trajectories by nothing other than case dimensions
<in a clearly intermediate sized cartridge
>he thinks he can judge armour penetration by nothing other than case dimensions
<even though there are antimateriel rounds that are both larger and smaller
<what is .338 Lapua Magnum
>he thinks performance is somehow related to logistics
>he thinks being able to use one barrel blank for every service weapon is not a logistical advantage
<y-y-youre autistic not meeeeee!
ok
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c661c8 No.672328
>>672311
You wouldn't be able to use the same barrel blank for all of those calibers unless they were all the same length projectile.
<What are Twist Rates, Alex?
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569855 No.672335
>>672328
A blank is a shaped piece of stock with no cuts made. Projectile length doesn't mean anything.
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fdb1bb No.672369
>>672311
Nigger, there are good reasons people use 12ga instead of .410, 5.56 & 7.62 instead of .50, and 5.7 instead of .45. The reason is that projectile caliber matters, a lot. ~ 10mm diameter being common for pistol rounds doesn't makes it a universally good caliber.
>being able to use one barrel blank for every service weapon
>implying that's not what already happens
>implying that'll alleviate the issue of having to to cut each barrel to particular specs
You're either retarded or the other option.
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569855 No.672384
>>672369
You shifted every single goalpost that you set. Literally every single one. You also apparently think that M4 barrels, M249 barrels, and M40 barrels all somehow come from the same source. That says all that needs to be said about how shitty your argument is, let alone the fact that it's nothing more than an ineffectual spergout in the first place because my post was just a response to another Strelok who suggested the idea, and I lazily played along. Are you capable of understanding that not everything is 100% sincere and srs bsns? No? Okay, I'll entertain your autistic ass then.
>12ga instead of .410
Because .410 is garbage.
>5.56 or 7.62 instead of .50
7.62 what? .50 what? No common cartridges that fit those shitty vague labels are even used in similar purposes. Are you retarded?
>5.7 instead of .45
Because you want an overpriced icepicking meme round instead of a hard hitting subsonic round, I guess. Again, not even remotely similar use cases in the cartridges you are obviously referring to. Retard.
Your post doesn't even define whether or not it's comparing .22 LR to .500 S&W Magnum, or .222 Remington to .45-70. This is how retarded you sound, retard, that you cannot even come up with a sensible premise for your pointless flailing. But oh, wise oracle, thanks to you we know that if any cartridge uses a bullet that's approximately .40" in diameter, it is automatically bad at everything based solely on that, because case design and bullet design don't real, and diameter is literally the only factor that decides anything! 10mm barrels in this completely hypothetical situation with no limit on creativity or resources are magically harder to machine than other sizes because raisins!
Suck start a shotgun.
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d05b8c No.672403
>>672384
There's a part of me that wants to explain why it would be a bad idea to use one caliber for everything, but it's so basic I'm inclined to believe this is purely b8.
Though I will say this much, why do you think (at least in rifles) straight walled cartridges generally got replaced with bottlenecked ones?
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569855 No.672453
>>672403
>either can't read or can't comprehend what 'that post was not serious' means
<this must be bait
Since this is a common theme already, I'll bite. Tapered and bottlenecked rounds became standard during the black powder era because the materials science of the time didn't allow for cases to be very plastic and people didn't understand lubricity between different alloys, and most importantly, black powder fouls barrels and chambers a great deal. So the taper and bottleneck made it easier to manually extract a black powder cartridge case. You will notice in the modern era of smokeless powders, alloyed barrels and cases, more proper-for-the-task lubricants, and generally just a better grasp of tolerances and production quality, that all rifle cartridges have become both straighter walled and shorter necked with sharper angles on every dimension of the case than their predecessors - 5.56 NATO, 7.62 NATO, 5.45x39, the list goes on. Why? Because what was necessary 130 years ago is no longer an advantage and having the cases shaped like that in modern guns is actually a deficit to both accuracy, reliability, and case strength. The main reason to use a necked casing today has to do with one of two things, depending on the gun in question; either ease of feeding in belt fed machine guns (because virtually all belt feed systems are designed around a necked case) or last-ditch extraction in scenarios of case failure or extreme lack of maintenance.
Do you have any further questions about a status quo norm that has been stagnating despite people realising it's less and less useful over the last 70 years? I mean, don't you ever wonder why nothing new is ever tried in the firearms industry, despite the fact that we have fancy new science like powdered graphene lubricants that repel dirt and moisture at high temperatures unlike oil?
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569855 No.672454
>>672453
Replace the the word 'plastic' with 'elastic'. I just woke up. My bad.
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569855 No.672455
>>672403
Also, you disingenuous faggot, nowhere in any of my previous posts did I say a single thing about straight-walled cases. Where did you even get that from? Do you just imagine details that you want to argue against when they aren't relevant?
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bef437 No.675816
>>672180
Are you stupid? Im jelous of our neighbors up north because robertson is way harder to cam out of than phillips.
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0a05e7 No.675827
>>675816
Robertson is just as shit as Phillips.
t.guy who has autisticlly screeched at having to drill a screw out and retap the fucking hole multiple times.
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762529 No.678886
>>672093
I'm going to categorize rounds by the outside circumference of their casing, not the size of the bullet.
fuck you
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762529 No.678887
>>672094
>>672123
>>672158
>>672180
>>672274
>>675816
>>675827
You're all retarded, there can be only screw drive to rule them all. The Slotted Torx Screw!
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d05b8c No.678889
>>678887
>Let's pair up slip and slide flat tip with get's shit jammed in it torx.
Once again as I said in my first post "If you had said Frearson … I could've respected that but you even fucked that up".
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28f876 No.678909
The best screw drive is whatever kind of screwdriver is within arm's reach at the time, and all other kinds are shit-tier. Prove me wrong.
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42e66e No.678923
>>672274
torx is only inferior to flathead. You have no idea what you're taling about. I can't tell you how many phillips and allen heads I've rounded out - yet never the above mentioned.
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42e66e No.678925
>>672180
Just because the actual tool doesn't commonly break on allens doesn't mean the head doesn't get rounded out every time with any notable degree of torque. I've legit replaced all the screws in my RMR with torx because this has happened probably 3 or 4 times with allen. Never had an issue since.
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538fd5 No.678959
>>672093
OP is completely autistic and not in a fun way.
None of your proposals even merit a response, you won't get one, you colossal winged faggot.
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762529 No.679060
>>678909
You must screw 2 objects together. You have one of each type of screw and all the necessary screwdrivers are equidistant from you. What do you do?
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4550c5 No.679143
>>679060
Pre-drill the proper sized holes and use every single screw, so that my two things will never come apart no matter what stress they are placed under and nobody will ever have all the necessary tools to take them apart. Especially those stupid Security Torx shits that the right sized bit uusually doesn't even fit on. Congraturaion me, my house is now impervious to break-ins. What now?
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28f876 No.679147
>>679060
I grab a screw and a screwdriver at random, and then get pissed off because they don't match.
>>679143
This is also the correct answer.
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b779ad No.679560
25ACP for everything.
All pistols are now either smol or very high capacity
All shotguns are now pepperboxes
The most skilled marksmen can now take out a target from almost 100yds
Tank cannons produce far less collateral damage
Artillery is magnitudes cheaper to manufacture
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29bf0c No.679606
>>672093
>given the ability to utilize any modern manufacturing method
Fuck firearms. I'd give England the lathe, drill press, and CNC machine, and let them go absolutely apeshit taking over all of Europe/genociding the lesser Europeans/North Africans/Mediterraneans in the ensuing technological revolution so we never have to hear about "muh Nationalist Germany stronk" or "muh Soviet Firearms" ever again.
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408d98 No.679619
>>679606
>Europe isnt home to robotic assited machining
This is why the 56% actually <50% nao ;,; meme is enforced.
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29bf0c No.679626
>>679619
>Suppose that you went back to 1000AD and invented firearms
Read the OP, nigger.
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ce2470 No.679635
>>679606
>anglos
>literal dumb dirty gorillas when the Romans first discovered them
>"superior"
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f1291c No.679699
>>679606
>dumb mutt thinking those machines won't just rot away because lol no 220V outage in 1000AD and no understanding of electrical theories
Nothing more can be exxpected from a butthurt goblino.
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a54756 No.679703
>>679699
Not to defend him, but first those machines were run with steam power, and you can easily replace that with water power. The much greater problem is that without the metallurgy to support them they won't be able to do much with those machines.
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653b8a No.679795
>>679699
>Dumb tawny Kraut failing to realize that by your very argument, reinventing the wheel modern firearms in OP's scenario would be impossible
>Dumb tawny Kraut being unable to read the first sentence of faggot OP's post
I'm not surprised. It's probably the inbreeding mixed with fear of proper Northfolk raping your people for centuries that keeps you illiterate.
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c06c00 No.679796
>>672123
Torx+ to-yield only
this is how holy wars start
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fc50a3 No.679852
>>679795
but you jews do tons of inbreeding and you can read just fine.
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0967ae No.679855
>No meme calibers, have ~5 extremely versatile calibers
We more or less have this already, people keep making meme calibers anyway, and they'll never stop.
>Universal platform like the AR-15 but with even more variety. Swap in a bolt-action receiver, put a stock on the back of a pistol and swap out the barrel to make it a carbine, swap out the barrel of a shotgun with a rifled one to make it a rifle, etc.
good luck actually designing this.
>Every screw is a phillipshead
fuck no, fuck you.
Gun screws should always be slotted if they're ever intended to be used away from a bench. And if I was reinventing everything, Phillips wouldn't even fucking exist. everyone gets to use fucking Robertson (square) or something, but not fucking Phillips. I'm leaning towards Robertson since the drivers and fasteners are just as cheap and simple to produce as phillips with early 20th century technology. Good luck trying to convince everyone to use torx/torx+ in like 1935.
>Use a consistent naming convention for weapons that conveys caliber, length, and receiver type.
why
>>672180
Allen is terrible.
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341896 No.679957
>>679795
Stupid fucking mutt, lol.
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