/k/ - Weapons

>>649517

Unlikely anything significant will happen. If the border dispute with Bhutan didn't pop off im not sure what will.

>>649517

No matter what the absolute sorry state of the Chinese military is, it can't be even half as bad as the Indians

Someone post that image of the Indian 'next-gen' cheap plastic Galil surrounded by literal shit hunks

Honest to god, I'm convinced that Pakistan is the most competent country of those three, and they have like 40% inbreeding rates. Chinks will use zergrush strategies that became outdated when the machine gun was invented with very questionable equipment. Indians are poorly funded and generally rather incompetent. Technically speaking though, I want to see the Indians succeed, since the CCP is worse than everyone else in the region.

>>649528

>Chinks will use zergrush strategies that became outdated when the machine gun was invented with very questionable equipment.

Are we going to refer the Chinese to the $1500 meme and is it going to be even worse/cheaper if there is a conflict?

>>649528

>inb4 pooinloos get exhausted and depleted both in number and equipment by the continuous bugmen rush, and then laughing third Pakistan takes over the northern half of pooinlooland

>>649529

>Are we going to refer the Chinese to the $1500 meme

Eggsplain. I don't understand.

Pakistanis are worthless dumb monkeys, they will never win any war ever. Indians can at the very least build their own weapons and they are masters in biological warfare.

The Chink 2 million strong army cannot be beaten by anyone other than the White man.

>>649531

The kit of an average Chinamen get issued is worth around 1500 in USD and since there military is mostly for crowd control.

>>649517

>China >

>getting assfucked by vietnam

In what fucking universe did that happened?

Is this what you tell yourselves at night to justify Vietnam assfucking the US until you went prolapse?

This is pure boomer fantasy, China and India WILL NEVER GO TO WAR WITH EACH OTHER.

>>649528

>Pakistan is the most competent country of those three

No it's not. Not even by a longshot.

>Chinks will use zergrush strategies that became outdated when the machine gun was invented

It's not outdated when you have more people than the others have bullets. Which China does. Chinese generals don't give a fuck about the lives of their soldiers because the one thing they will NEVER run out of is manpower. They will run out of food fuel and ammo long before they have no zerglings lefts.

>with very questionable equipment.

China is the manufacture of the world. Everything you have is made by chinks. The screen in front of you the keyboard you type, the knife you use to cut your meat, the condoms I used to fuck your mom.

I've held and shot chink made M4 for Iranian contracts, the metal works and adjustment on them is BETTER than a Colt made M4. Chinks can make everything.

Common chinese goods are shit because import/export (((intermediaries))) ask them to make things the cheapest they can so they can maximize their profits when re-selling this crap in € and $ when they're not even buying it at $0.01.

If they want to make not-shit things they can (and they do all the time).

Meanwhile the poo aren't called that for nothing.

Hell do you follow the tank biathlon thing?

China uses Type 96 (that's their cheap ones) and those things clearly are on par with Russian T-72B3 (which have all the bells and whistles a modern ought to have).

Of course the poo being the poo they went on to cry that they were shit (with even niggers beating them) because the Russian supplied to them for the competition T-72B3 were shit and they would come with their own T-90 "POOSHIMA" next year to win, which are the T-90S made in India.

Next year, they came with three… none of them even worked.

That's India military competency right there, we're talking of a continent size country that was conquered by accident by 50 drunk British mall cops that were fighting 25 just as drunk Dutch/French/Portuguese almost-pirates that had taken over most of it.

>>649539

The thing is, the moment the western or russian QC adviser fucks off chinkshit ain't of any quality. I've been to the factory that Norinco/Polytech cranks their shit out of and the guy doing QC was a russian, probably the only reasonable fellow in the entire landmass known as the PRC that I met and the only guy who had anything that was actually edible. Its like you don't know the modern state of China and/or how absolutely fucked the people are there.

>>649545

Because the Chinks hate the poos and will probably attack them with any chance they can get.

>>649528

Will Chinks harvest some of their obese citycuck MMORPG/smartphone addicts currently imprisoned in rehab detention centers in case of war?

What use could they have?

>>649546

I doubt they hate them enough to turn their back on their most secure source of oil.

>>649549

manual brute force hacking

>>649545

>Why the fuck would China support Pakistan over Iran?

China helped Pakiland greatly with their nuclear program. IIRC, they gave Pakistan some HEU and lots of help with missile tech and miniaturization.

>>649540

>almost all Sino-Vietnamese war pics are black and white

>1979

apparently they can't make color cameras in China lmao

>>649551

Those are Maoist rebels.

>>649551

>You will never be paid $9,000 a month to kill niggers, maoists and other shitskins with your buddies, while simultaneously building your own motherbase

Why is modern way of life so boring and meaningless?

>>649539

>China is the manufacture of the world. Everything you have is made by chinks.

True, but poos are the ones that code for all of those products.

>>649551

I think they're the maoist rebels the poos haven't been able to snuff out for decades

>>649564

How nightmarish.

>>649540

>The Sino-Vietnamese war

The Sino-Vietnamese was a purge of the PLA much like the Korean war was a purge of the country.

They openly went before to Russia and the US saying it was a simple "punishing" expedition and not an actual war, and they purposely didn't lend any air support or sea support.

What they did is round up all the commanders in PLA that were still maoist or against Deng Xiaoping that were kicking a storm about "my dying countrymen" in Vietnam, nevermind that Khmer Rouge did worse to ethnics chinks, (but they themselves were lying, they were really angry about the 1978 peace treaty with Japan) and told them to go do something about it if they were so eager, in the proper chink way that treat other people like disposable garbage.

After all Vietnamese bullets are cheaper than Chinese ones.

So off they sent hundreds of thousands of conscripts without even basic artillery support or proper plans to kill off a few hundreds commanders that weren't in the right Beijing clique.

Anyone good enough to have "achievements" would be able to redeem itself for their, real or presumed, slights (as anyone capable of winning with those conditions is good enough to be useful so shouldn't just be killed off).

Meanwhile everyone in the region was against Vietnam invading Cambodia except the USSR, so in doing such a limited (read "doomed to fail") war China would both be percieved as just, doing the dirty work no one wanted, after France and the US had tried and failed by smacking Vietnam a good time AND appear reasonable (compared to batshit insane Mao) to everyone important (USSR/US) as they're not actually trying to set out to extend their political control, but just "pacify" the area.

So they went in, had staggering casualties, got close enough to threaten Hanoi and make vietnamese generals clench their buttocks, and went back as they had promised.

China entirely and totally won that war, by accomplishing all the political objectives they had set:

- Securing the extremely controversial Deng Xiaoping seat (internal).

- Appear as a "responsible" regional power with a mind of it's own (external).

That's hilarious that you all think that chinks are the lowest but you're incapable of grasping the actual evilness of how their minds actually works.

They don't give flying fuck how many people die for their schemes, but you should NEVER mistake it for incompetence.

Chinese are the definition of evil.

>>649580

>declares war on nam over nam occupation of cambodia

>gets wrecked and eventually gives up

>nam still occupies cambodia

That ain't much of a victory other than keeping the army busy for commie backstabbing back in Peking.

>>649539

Did that shit happen in 2018 tank biathlon?

Anyways. How cruel Mars can be to us mortals that he won't give us the China-India war we have always wanted?

>>649580

>China entirely and totally won that war, by accomplishing all the political objectives they had set:

>fail to free cambodia from vietmanese occupation

>fail to re-install Pol Pot

>loose thousands of troops in a matter of days

>completely withdraw all troops from the region

>"they won in their minds, it was 4D chess all along!"

>>649583

>That ain't much of a victory

And yet it is. Because they never cared for Cambodia or Vietnam, they just cared on HOW IT APPEARED.

And a time already no one was ready to have huge losses of lives for strategic reasons, China demonstrating they didn't gave a fuck and were willing to homicidally toss down for minor border issues and local troubles made them a terrible force to reckon with and therefore couldn't be ignored, while doing so in a "reasonable" manner. And that was a total victory no less.

For what do you do with an unignorable homicidal but very reasonable person?

You negotiate with him.

That is the source of today Chinese power as it allowed Deng to secure diplomatic ties to the democrats (Carter admin) and then start offshoring the US industry en masse (Clinton).

War is politics. Chinks are sociopaths. Sociopaths are very good at politics.

>>649537

I was over there for a few months for work last year. Obviously I wasn't sitting in on Communist Party meetings, but on the ground China is quite obviously gearing up for war. Every billboard that can hold an add was displaying a recruiting poster for the PLA. Every 5 minutes on the TV you had something like vid related playing.

If you look at Chinese military history then the only victory they have over foreigners (literally, the single war that they have won against anyone who wasn't a fellow chink) was when they sent several regiments of their best to slaughter some random Russian peasants who wondered over their border by mistake. I don't think for a second that China has any hope of victory in a war against *insert country name here* but as they'd be recruiting the young boys and old men as soon as the second wave was shipped out they have the capability to make any war they're involved in a quagmire tier bloodbath for the other side.

>>649589

tbh it is "4d chess". I think frenchie has an interesting point that matches up with the jew-like scheming nature of the noodleniggers.

"Twas yellow skin and slanted eyes that did betray us with their lies"

>>649590

Shouldn't you be kidnapping dogs and scarfing down piss eggs right now?

>>649592

they also have an excess of male population so might as well kill off a few dozen million

>>649692

A single gook alive is an excess

population of India:

>1,3 billion

population of China:

>1,4 billion

Deaths for CCCP in WWII based on total percentage of 1940 population:

>13% depending on sources

That percentage applied to India or China:

>India: 170 million

>China: 180 million

Total deaths in WWII overall:

>70 million, including war in asia.

A war with more than twice as many deaths on a single side than there were deaths in all of WWII on all sides. Ave nex alea.

>>649700

That's assuming a lot /k/omerade.

>>649527

>purchase complete Galil tooling

>introduce indigenous enhancements

>design has myriad parts not interchanging with Galil or AKs

>design and execution are so shitty you cannot issue the gun

>issue gun anyway

>jams, overheats, fires unexpectedly

>becomes liability (for Indian troops, that says a lot)

>units with flexibility switch back to L1A1

>Managed to fuck up an AK

>MANAGED TO FUCK UP AN AK

pajeets, unlike Midas, turn everything they touch to shit

>>649544

>I've been to the factory that Norinco/Polytech cranks their shit out of and the guy doing QC was a russian, probably the only reasonable fellow in the entire landmass known as the PRC that I met and the only guy who had anything that was actually edible. Its like you don't know the modern state of China and/or how absolutely fucked the people are there.

Storytime or I assume your uncle works at nintendo.

>>649592

I can't fucking wait until I get me a couple chinks; Manchuria is rightfully Japanese clay.

>>649701

>I went to one village and saw 100 corpses, then another village and another 100 corpses. No one paid attention to them. People said that dogs were eating the bodies. Not true, I said. The dogs had long ago been eaten by the people.

Yu Dehong, about the great Chinese famine of 1960.

13% is a generous estimate.

>>649717

You realise that even if all the Chink women were given to Japan the odds of you getting hold of one of the 100 or so good looking ones is pretty much 0. In a few generations, with an appropriately managed breeding program and cultural subversion that might be fun, but for the moment you would only get ugly, surly, shit tier women.

>>649698

I never post sauce because I know no one read them.

O’Dowd, Edward C. "Chinese Military Strategy in the Third Indochina War: The Last Maoist War."

Quinn-Judge, Sophia, and Odd Arne Westad.. "The Third Indochina War: Conflict between China, Vietnam, and Cambodia, 1972-79."

Baum, Richard. "Burying Mao."

Also everyone should at least read the intro of this one, even if you don't care about the larger strategy discussion:

U.S. Army Training and Doctrine Command. TRADOC Pamphlet 525-3-1, "The U.S. Army Operating Concept: Win in a Complex World, 2020-2040."

https://www.tradoc.army.mil/Portals/14/Documents/MDO/TP525-3-1_30Nov2018.pdf

There are only 2 peer adversaries for the US command.

And none of them are Iran, Pakistan or India…

>>649549

There's a lot of chinks still living on the countryside doing farm work. Most of them are very uneducated but I think some of them are legitimately immersed in CCP propaganda. The chinks living in cities are a bit more educated but too soft and probably not capable enough to go to the military, let alone march for 30km.

>>649734

Keep talking out of your ass…

China has mandatory military service.

Now they don't actually enforce it, because they have enough volunteers and even with current birthrates they would have something like 8 to 9 millions servicemen per call (which is clearly too much).

But EVERYONE signing up for college has a basic military course to complete, which is exactly like it sounds, a few weeks of ROTC style training, from there they can volunteers directly for NCO positions or join a military school.

The result is the countryside youth population that makes the bulk of the volunteers and the bulk of the PLA (people more used to hard work and to take orders, that see the military as an opportunity in their limited options. It's the same thing everywhere else), but the much more numerous cities youth population makes for a reserve with at least a basic level of fitness and some understanding of the military life.

It is a perfectly sound recruitment and mobilization strategy.

>>649527

Why make the polymer look like poo?

>>649738

If it's Vietnam tier training then it's nothing to fear, individual soldier at least.

But it's not like training matters as much when you have the quantity to add up for it, what really matters is the fitness, most chinks aren't obese and thus serve well as soldiers.

>>649738

>China has mandatory military service.

Yeah, and all they fucking do is sing Chinese communist songs and learn to march on parades instead of how to handle weapons and function with a squad. It's 90% silly propaganda bullshit. I guarantee you that there would be widespread desertion if it turned into actual war, should it even happen that the west doesn't just decide to just annihilate the CCP and support whoever they are going to war against.

>>649739

The newer models of the INSAS are all black, dunno why they chose fucking orange plastic for the furniture colour on the earlier models. I heard that they aren't complete shit any more but they are far from good rifles either.

>>649741

>most chinks aren't obese and thus serve well as soldiers.

lol, China is rapidly increasing in diabetes and obesity right now.

>>649743

Last time I was in Chinkland (2017), most people seem thin.

>>649744

True, most still are, but currently it's only increasing.

http://archive.is/E7zZK

It probably also doesn't help that all the food in China is made of pure cancer that will hopefully kill plenty of chinks soon. I can't wait to see more milk scandals.

>>649741

>most chinks aren't obese

No, they're mostly malnourished manlets. Granted you don't need to be a two and a half meter tall brick-shithouse of a man to be an effective soldier, but the Chinks I met while I was out there were the sort who almost all struggled to run 100m in a reasonable time without collapsing before the finishing line. They're not the kind of men you'd trust to patrol through the Himalayas carrying a weapon and full pack.

>>649747

I'm not saying that it's all of them, and their non-ceremonial units (they have to have at least a few) should be able to preform at a reasonable level, but it does mean that their claims of '8 million million million Chinese soldiers!' should be taken with some scepticism. Most of their men wouldn't be useful for much beyond lightweight military police duty.

>>649743

>The newer models of the INSAS are all black

The picture I seen online looked grayish black. That still looks like poop.

>>649752

Dude, the diabetes thin chinks are still gonna be more combat effective than "healthy" fat muricans.

>>649806

The Chinese have abandoned Maoism by this point and made an attempt at modernizing their army, so their shitty performance during the Sino-Vietnamese War shouldn't be repeated.

Didn't they end up destroy most of the industry of North Vietnam as a result of the attack anyway?

>>649738

>China has mandatory military service.

They did in Korea and Vietnam too and they all fucking died why would it be any different this time, they learn more about the party line in training and didn't have modern underwear till recently and their rations are inedible, conscripts let alone incompetent ones don't care about their war either and will get their asses kicked by the invaded or guerilla groups f.e. the Soviets and the mujahedin, American and the Viet Cong, and Hezbollah and the IDF. And so what if China's politicians start wars or utilize the military as a decoy for their own diplomatic power games, that's not winning a war, what point is there in the end to have imperialistic motives if you don't have a competent fist to enforce it.

If China declared war on North Korea who would win?

>>649870

the rest of the world

>>649723

That's assuming a lot still. Famine != war :^)

>>649731

Thanks anon.

>>649580

>>649590

By that logic we won the Vietnam War.

>>649872

kek'd

>>649870

Don't forget Germany; the government in Pyongyang has recently announced that they have acquired several thousand highly advanced, western produced, T-34 tanks. With this state of the art armoured spearhead - which is undeniably far ahead of anything the North Koreans could produce themselves (due to Imperialist sabotage of their production facilities) - nothing can stand before the righteous soldier/workers of the glorious North Korean nation!

>>649981

I was more curious about how well hordes of untrained soyboy Chink Twinks would do against entrenched starving Korean farmers.

>>649986

>Chink soyboys vs starving NORKs

The Chinks have the economic and industrial edge, but the NORKs will be starving a lot less after they get to cannibalise a mix of Chinese and DPRK casualties/POWs. It'd probably be the first decent meal a lot of the NORKs had eaten. We'd also need to account for Russian and American special forces 'observers' embedded with the NORK forces and thoroughly surprised to be working alongside each other against the Chinks.

>>649989

What?

>>649806

>the support of […] the United States […] for the Khmer Rouge

Why though.

>>649981

The norks actually have made their own tanks that are possibly better than T-34s. I think the bigger issue is that they probably can't actually fuel or man them, and moving all of them is a big pain in the ass in the kind of place they are in.

>>649988

norks would nuke beijing once they got desperate

>>650016

nam grudge

>>650025

I know, just a joke. There isn't much confirmed information about the native production 'Chonma-ho' and 'Pokpung-ho' MBTs - but from what can be put together the first is probably a low end knock off of the (shit tier export version of the) T-62 and the second did the same thing with the (shit tier export version of the) T-72. Pretty sure that even with the few thousand tanks they claim they've got enough fuel and ammunition for a few dozen max though. Their other tanks look a lot more like outdated heavy IFVs without a transport capacity.

>>649532

Αυτό.

>>649545

For the same reason the West suicidally kept helping that terrorist-breeding pseudocountry shithole. Poojeets might never become a superpooer as they dream of but already are a billion strong regional power with nuke-backed autonomy and to real interest to bend over to either eastern or western block and (((nobody))) likes that..

>>649717

Why the fuck would you want native mongoloid clay?

>>650054

There's oil in manchuria.

>>650055

I've watched Zipang too, still not fucking worth the turkoid-stink of the place.

>>650057

They can be ethnically cleansed, in a generation muttmerica will collapse and will stop interfering in everyone's business, Israel will lose its golem, and AIPAC will be puppeteering a rotting corpse.

>>650062

I admire your optimism but 400 years of nigger-treatment under the roaches don't leave me with much ground for sharing it. Never underestimate altaic subhumans' breeding momentum, the Mings did that exact same mistake nipanon is proposing and look how it ended.

>>650067

Those 1960's tier MANPADS bolted onto the roof of an obsolete tank would really pose a threat to any civilian aircraft that get lost over the combat area.

>>650084

I wonder what the Norks could gain from captured F-35s forced to land after the flight computer overheated and shut off the engine while trying to ID the unknown Nork tanks.

>>650067

Speaking of commie shitholes how's cuba's army?

>>650064

Speaking of my favorite subject - genocide, how do you propose we get rid of the entire Turkish population once we inevitably conquer their country in our lifetime? It has to be done before they or the rest of the world can react. It needs to be quick and efficient.

>>650122

Ethnic cleasing viral agent?

>>650122

Put them in shipping crates and lower them by crane into bodies of water

>>650122

Tell them to intermarry with the greeks ;^)

>>650123

Using chemical weapons are (((said to be))) as bad as denying the holocaust, try again

>>650125

Why not just (((false flag))) a sinking of a freight container?

>>650067

Is it so wrong to bolt veritable pagodas of semi-disposable dakka onto a tank, insofar as your desired height profile allows? Since the Norks are a tiny island of dirty ultracommies with a nationalist veneer in a sea of post-Maoist chinks and jingo-democratic Sorks & Japs, it sort of makes sense to have the literal maximum firepower possible on every bucket you can.

If anything, non-MG secondary and tertiary weapons are something of a progressive idea; modern MANPADs or bigger not-really-MANPADs as a legitimate deterrent to anti-tank attack helicopters and maybe even some low-slow CAS aircraft, independent from anti-air elements. This frees up these elements for other operationally useful placements, allows for fewer dedicated SPAAG attached to a mobile armored group, and makes the enemy think twice about deploying aircav assets against anything mechanized, if nothing else forcing the use of countermeasures and defensive maneuver. Also a good counter to drones or nigrigged civil craft.

Commander targeted ATGMs for multi target engagement in an emergency; his existing hunter-killer optics, which he would otherwise be using to pre-direct the gunner to his next target, can be used to direct these. Ideal firing order is targets 1-2-3-4 gun-ATGM-gun-ATGM; commander sites gunner on target 1, launches ATGM on target 2 as gunner fires and observes impact, repeat as needed until targets or more likely ATGMs run out. It's more disruptive ordnance downrange on more targets faster, which depending on how smart your missiles/targeters are won't even infringe on the commanders' duties/create the commander-gunner problem as he fires and forgets. If you're lucky, you'll even get damage or a knockout. Failing that, if target 2/4/etc in order deploys successful countermeasures, the gunner will simply fire on that target, and if the gunner misses on his first, he'll refire while the commander keeps ranging and dumping missiles. Depending on the missile module in question, these could be lighter and cheaper fare for popping enemy IFVs to save on primary shells, or chunky sons of bitches meant for hurting other MBTs.

RWS are RWS. They shoot infantry good without exposing the crew to fire. Maybe they can shoot helicopters good if you decide to go full MBT-70 with a light cannon. If you decide to go full MBT-70, maybe don't make it a really fancy pop-up gun and instead make it a low-profilemounting that at most can drop to a more flush position with the roof in which it is less/non-traversible. Speaking of MGs and cannons, where the fuck did ranging guns go? Did everyone just forget how to ballistically match some tank-earmarked wildcat rounds for the coax MG or a secondary spotting rifle like the Centurion 7 Chieftain? Did they forget that in the age of electronic warfare and disruptor smoke, it's a good idea to have an analog backup to your fancy laser rangefinders? So what if the tracers tend to burn out at ridiculous modern ranges; just make the rounds burst on impact with a visible HE charge! And has no one considered that, while you'll still probably end up sticking in a 12.7mm or 14.5mm MG for supply purposes, it might be good to consider designing with some breathing room in mind for a modern 20-30mm coax module to kick down or through cover you don't necessarily want to spend a round of 120mm+ HE-FRAG on, and to give more than a little tickle to older IFVs that think their 'autocannon proof' skins are worth a shit against the next generation of such weaponry?

The Norks, beside (because of?) having shitall to work with under perma-embargo with procurement running on fumes, or being poor starving gook shits and controlled opposition for the minstrel show of global politics, have the right idea. As long as you aren't worried about setting up a perfect ambush with the lowest of low profiles possible but no time to dig a tank trench, more bolt-on dakka is best dakka, and there's never enough. Make your tin can blow up as many of theirs before it goes with the maximum fire control efficiency possible. It's a simple calculus.

>>650128

>sinking an entire ship just to kill shitskins

>>650130

What makes you think a main battle tank with a coaxial autocannon is any more feasible than what they did with sponson mountings on things like the Lee. And many IFVs and such have secondary and tertiary missiles, except they aren't haphazardly bolted on, and rather than putting a boatload of ordnance onto a tank, we have doctrine (or at least, theoretically have doctrine) which makes use of separate vehicle platforms with separate capabilities which are better fit for their ordnance's use. A multi-role tank with the whole kit and caboodle of SAMs will have to make compromises in its design, and will generally be less good at its main job of killing armor.

Apparently my IP changed, I'm >>649989

>>650173

Nobody fucking cares. Go kill yourself.

>>650174

Someone's a bit grumpy, aren't they. Having a bad day, muttspammer?

>>650181

>makes use of separate vehicle platforms with separate capabilities which are better fit for their ordnance's use

And if you can afford in manpower and materiel to do so, then it's good to do so. But if you don't, either because of upper limits or because you only have so much of either to throw into your order of battle on a foreign mission to Buttfucknowhereistan, redundancy is not a bad idea. It's also not a bad idea if you are in a total war where everything you can do to shit out more potentially enemy-fatal ordnance & postpone the inevitable demise of your forward forces is a blessing from God.

>A multi-role tank with the whole kit and caboodle of SAMs will have to make compromises in its design

This is true, but I don't think they will be very large. But without doing some proper weight estimation- even if doing a gloss over of average tube weights makes it seem like a steal- and since I doubt the Norks are going to be forthcoming about the Pokpung-Ho's weird platform modules, this is just speculative pissing into the wind I suppose. You retain the right to be skeptical.

>will generally be less good at its main job of killing armor.

Outside the already raised concern of high profile on my own part, what will the maluses be? What about not being food for aircav and double-hunter killer capacity makes our hypothetical AFV a worse tank killer in the sort of wide open terrain that you have a massed tank battle in? Tulip rockets on tanks did more good than harm, and those were shitty dumbfire things that were as brutishly applique as you can get.

If you want to lower the profile, beside just taking them off, you can sink the launchers lower in the design stage, or in exchange for losing out on the very good benefit of 330ish degree traverse, make them side mounted. Or, possibly, have the launcher arms be capable of lying flat. The nork MANPAD looks like it has some forward swing to it, which is why I think of this option. And if the modules are standing vertical, your peripheral vision loss isn't too bad. Swing the turret a bit and you can check the blind spots created. If you want to get really fancy, and if you can get launcher arms/racks/whatever cheap enough, you could always jettison the non-mounting portions of the module as disposable when empty, if necessary.

>>650174

Calm down, the man was just clarifying post continuity. There's no malice in that.

>>650181

>>650182

Can't think of any real counter point. Guess I'm wrong. Good effortposts. Though I still can't picture, knowing the clusterfuck other comparable projects have been, there not being some sort of ammo feeding, weight or aiming issue with an autocannon, and I think with external racks you're just asking for maintenance issues and unwanted detonations.

>>650181

>Now, why'd they downgrade?

Because the Leclerc turret is essentially a SPAAG turret with WVR lock and auto-tracking and targeting computer, aka the main gun can engage moving helicopters fairly enough while the hit probability for fast movers just relying on optronic with the relatively low combat envelop of the 20mm makes it very dubious without dedicated equipment (or at least have them twin mounted).

Also since the early 80's the 20mm aren't deemed enough (with reason as the 80's version of BMP-2 and then worse the BMP-3 are considerably more armored than the old BMP-1s), so while it was nice to have the AMX-10P with 20mm and the tanks coax in the same caliber for logistic reasons, AMX-10P successors were bound to have a much bigger caliber (40mm and 45mm CTA prototypes already existed at that time) that definitely wouldn't fit in the turret. So they went for 12.7/7.62mm as the infantry in the IFV would still use 7.62 and 12.7 would still be used either as a secondary gun on IFVs or for rear elements protection.

>>650016

Pretty much the entirety of the west didn't believe the shit that Vietnam was saying about what pol pot and friends were doing.

>>650118

>I wonder what the Norks could gain from captured F-35s

With any luck they'd produce a 1:1 copy of them and be just as fucked as anyone with an F35 is going to be come WW3.

>>650128

>try again

Give them shitty weapons (airshit is fine as long as it looks the part), don't have to be working but preferrably ar-15 or ak-47 shaped so you can firebomb civillians and have easy PR of fighting nasty insurgents that hide behind women and kids.

>>649891

We went to war with the goal of stopping the spread of communism and did not want it to cost much for us. It was extremely costly and we didn't stop the spread of communism. If our goal was to get our troops slaughtered, waste tons of money, and only send a message along the lines of "we tried" then it would be analogous.

>>650215

>easy PR of fighting nasty insurgents that hide behind women and kids.

But what if the insurgents are women and kids?

>>650084

>Those 1960's tier MANPADS bolted onto the roof of an obsolete tank would really

The first pic is from the 70's, current norks things are SA-16 and AT-6 equivalent, that shit will make mince meat of any of yours F-35 or Chally, so yeah bolting modern missiles on old tanks isn't a bad idea at all, the main gun will still fuck up any IFVs or older tanks (Worst Korea arsenal still had quite a few M-60 until recently. Even some M-48) and if you're unlucky enough to face a modern tank you still have a fighting chance for a relatively low cost and negligible weight change.

>pose a threat to any civilian aircraft that get lost over the combat area.

MANPADs and SHORADs can't shoot airliners, they don't have the range.

>>650220

Shouldn't have picked up arms and resist democracy and human rights.

Shame on the turks for oppressing women and children as well as drafting them as military.

>>650278

>AT-6 equivalent

While I'm sure that a ~560mm RHAe penetration missile would do a lot of damage to pretty much any military vehicle mounting them on a tank seems like a bad idea. That same missile could be launched from a far more mobile or low profile/cost platform. Firing it from a helicopter (or possibly an aircraft) would bring it on target much faster than bolting the launcher to a tank. Firing it from an armoured ATGM carrier, the back of a jeep, or even just giving it to a couple of soldiers will make it much easier for them to stay hidden until their first shot especially compared to a 40 ton tank - and they would be able to relocate faster too, lowering the risk of the inevitable return fire.

It looks like a propaganda pitch "LOOK AT OUR GLORIOUS TANKS CITIZENS! DO YOU SEE HOW IMPORTANT IT IS THAT YOU STARVE FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE PARTY?!" rather than a practical military development.

>>650187

Well, I'm glad to be convincing.

>Though I still can't picture… there not being some sort of ammo feeding, weight or aiming issue with an autocannon

You'd have to either do some real whizzbang kerjiggering to make it fit in an existing turret without extensive refit or draw it up as part of a new turret project, definitely. I think the biggest possible problem is that you're putting a bunch of 20-30mm firecrackers into the fighting compartment, which- unless you're a post-Soviet- supposed to be as empty of non-blast paneled ammo as possible. It would not be pleasant for a belt of this stuff to go off from enemy fire, so either the feed needs to be real robust, or you have to use magazines or clips that can go in a blast panel magazine.

>I think with external racks you're just asking for maintenance issues

Bolt them on firmly at multiple points with armor material class plugs on an extended side platform, or put them in a pluggable turret ring on the roof. Make sure the connector wire has some spaced armor shielding so it isn't cut by shrapnel. Make sure you've got lotsa wire at the depots for tank resupply. Make any hydraulic/mechanical elements of your missile zit turret or platform swingarm are dirt simple and sturdy, with nothing foulably fancy. No problem there.

>and unwanted detonations.

That's more likely. But if the enemy is trying to sink shots on your missile modules from a flank (if they're in your front they can be reasonably assumed to be good as dead) they're either dumb insurgents who either miss or won't get past the reasonably light & cheap fiddy-proof sharp angled RHA box, like a wee Patriot launcher set diagonal, that they may or may not be contained in and have now announced their position by trying to take you on like you were a Metal Gear boss fight. Or they're really dumb tankmen who don't understand that if blast panels can redirect an entire magazine explosion out of a tank, then a shaped charge or frag missile on a stick pointed forward from the tank will probably not do shit. And the time they wasted plinking off-center is time you spent sinking a round somewhere important.

I could see legitimate worry for damage if you mount an extra big MBT-killer Shillelagh and lose it to enemy fire with the turret side angled over the engine deck, but otherwise the modules are just going to go 'pop' and suddenly you need a new one socketed in. With the ridiculously inflated price of weapon packages relative to the actual material value, I suppose it could get expensive to replace modules lost to fire also.

>>650187

>Because the Leclerc turret is essentially a SPAAG turret with WVR lock and auto-tracking and targeting computer, aka the main gun can engage moving helicopters fairly enough

That sounds really neat. It also sounds potentially complicated, expensive and easy to inflate into being even more expensive than it needs to be. I guess that's why it's the most expensive MBT on Earth, or one of them.

So, 20 mils isn't enough to do the multi-role coax trick without riveting two to four together. What about a single high-power Rheinmetall thirty/thirty-five or equivalent built as light & tough as you can get it, again like what you have on the Puma or the various RHM anti-air guns? Surely that's enough oomph to make a Hind sweat and make IFVs cry when they try to give you the Gulf War runaround ATGM treatment. This more efficiently than spending 120mm+ shells on either, at least.

>>650303

As discussed above; yes, if you want a fast, disposable solution you use a cheap launch platform from a technical up to a light tracked chassis or IFV. If you want a sneeki breeki one, you use poor bloody infantry and a dugout. But if you don't have the numbers available to spread the missiles around like this, or if you've got a whole lotta missiles and targets to put them on compared to platforms available, you may as well put them on what you can. Like an obsolete tank that needs some anti-3rd or 4th gen MBT oomph. Or a 3rd-4th gen MBT that wants some commander directed extra firepower that can engage a separate target from the one he has directed the gunner onto for twice the engagement capacity.

>>650303

I agree but if you enter Bovington tomorrow and tell all the generals "you guys all getting Ocelots and ATGM because you're fucking useless" (which they are. All tanks are largely obsolete, not just the norks) it might not go very well. I imagine the same thing is true in NK.

>>650306

>That sounds really neat. It also sounds potentially complicated, expensive and easy to inflate into being even more expensive than it needs to be. I guess that's why it's the most expensive MBT on Earth.

The hybrid gasturbine turbocharged diesel engine isn't helping either.

>>650321

You can phrase it more nicely than that! Just gloss over it in some bullshit procurement-hype doctrinese. 'In the interest of extending the active service and reserve lifetime of Rusttonk III 1980, we are preparing a robust supplementary firepower modernization package and incorporating mine-protected mechanized support vehicles for immediate integration to the armored unit.' Boom, done.

>hybrid gasturbine turbocharged diesel engine

>hybrid

>gas turbine

>diesel engine

Fffffucking why? What? Brushing up, it's a conventional 1500 horsepower eight-cylinder diesel, but is 'equipped with a gas turbine?' What does that mean? Is there a second turbine engine to run on gas, since multifuel pistons are too fiddly by some accounts? Or does the turbine just dump lots of compressed air into the engine so the pistons go bang good and the turbocharger is never starved for air?

I don't speak engine design, but to my uneducated ears and based on the very high nominal performance of the Leclerc's overall drivetrain, it sounds like it could work. Like it could maybe be made at least semi-practical if you really work towards simplifying it. But I have this funny feeling that that work wasn't done, and that the intentional overcomplication resulted in lots and lots of black funding slush money for the designers' bosses. Like always.

>>650325

>Or does the turbine just dump lots of compressed air into the engine so the pistons go bang good and the turbocharger is never starved for air?

That. That way you get the advantage of the gas turbine in terms of mobility (allowing the tank to go from 0 to cruise speed in a couple seconds. Which is the big advantage of gas turbine as, in theory at least, you can dodge incoming fire).

The problem is it has to be electronically managed with early 1990's electronics. However the work was done and it does work pretty much flawlessly, but one of the reason the program was so late (and therefore expensive) is definitely that and the overall complexity isn't a selling point either (the export version have a normal MTU tank engine) even if the maintenance operation isn't that bad (compared to a M1 or T-80).

Availability due to small numbers of high precision parts is what really is driving the prices through the roof.

>>650133

>implying short-term > long-term mindset will prevail in genocidal terms.

You seem to be new to this whole genocide thing burger. I think what most people often forget about genocide is how important it is to erase any semblance of culture / history said group possessed. It’s not enough to kill them all, no. You will have to erase their identity into the doldrums of history, subjugate them into non-existence, and most importantly, shame any survivors or collaborators that has any relationship with the group that you seek to destroy. Killing them might erase them for a while, but you will soon realize how futile it is when it is not backed up with enough psy-ops / political influence to eliminate their identity.

But still, sinking ships just to kill a few thousand shitskins seems to be wasteful, i guess you can just do >>650215

Better yet, have them kill their own kind with some petty issues, people these days are very easy to incite hatred into their hearts.

>>650321

>you guys all getting Ocelots and ATGM because you're fucking useless" (which they are. All tanks are largely obsolete, not just the norks)

>War has changed

and that is in no way my fault if war had changed the way I wanted it to then things would be a lot more fun.

>>650409

It seems like it would be sensible to give the system a second go-over if it's that old and still functional. It seems like a retrofit to more modern, miniaturized and better hardened electronics should be a matter of course, even if the old '90s tech runs fine. 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it,' but that doesn't preclude improving it. Then again, attempting to improve might just let somebody fuck up real bad with the state of things, even with the huge technical advantage over the original designers.

>Availability due to small numbers of high precision parts is what really is driving the prices through the roof.

It's a main battle tank. It is the lynchpin battering ram steppe-fighter and long street firing line tenement demolisher of the combined arms forces. Just expand the damned production line for these crucial fiddly engine parts and purchase in bulk for overall cost-efficiency and surplus building, instead of subsidizing Algies and Arabs colonizing the metropolitan. Or since your political cretins, like all of them, have to stay that traitorous course, at least do both, because modern funny money and economy fixing can do that.

The dilapidation allowed by the Euro puppet states is just criminal in the sense that not only can they not resist boiling the frog too fast, but they can't help but spit on the biggest, meanest cunt frog in the pot that is the potentially reactionary core of the national militaries and/or their spirit. But, never correct your enemy when he's making a mistake, no?

>>650530

What is this fun war you speak of, bonganon? Is it more tanks instead of less? Does every infantry section get saddled up in Wiesel style tankettes? Or are we going to build literal landships for gunship diplomacy style pissing matches along the borders, with frequent stops for mechanical breakdown? Something else entirely?

>>650776

Wow, and everyone is claiming the next war is in Venezuela…

What are the chances that the Pakis will lose again?

>>650594

>>650776

Isn't the Pajeet military royally cucked? I know they've tried at least two coups and both times it resulted in them being neutered even more. Pajeets have the numbers, but the Pakis can basically do whatever they want on the Indian side of the border should it come to war.

>>650777

Who gives a fuck about vuvuzela? They voted for commies, they deserve to all die of hunger.

>>650799

India also has a rather large Islamic population that would likely side with Pakistan causing internal problems, personally I'm awaiting the fighting that's going to happen in London and various other south asian occupied shitholes in this country, they already beat the shit out of each other over cricket.

>>650801

The commies apparently.

It's a big victim complex.

>>650533

>What is this fun war you speak of, bonganon?

Admittedly it's fairly dumb and something that would only happen if every country involved was working to maintain it (rather than looking for an advantage). Still, it'd be fun.

>Missiles and aircraft severely gimped, right the way down to unguided rockets and surveillance/recon balloons at most

>Land war almost entirely focused on very heavy artillery - Schwerer Gustav would be towards the upper end of medium weight guns here

>These pieces of super-arty are carried on giant, tracked, land battleships - acting as land based Monitors; pretty sure they could be nuclear powered by now

>Supporting these LB are smaller tanks of various categories: Heavy tanks, Medium tanks (MBT tier), updated cavalry tanks etc.

>Main battles are fought between two or more LB with their escorts (heavy tanks would carry guns big enough to threaten LB, medium tanks and cavalry tanks would protect the HT from the enemies MT/CT and hunt the enemies HT where possible while the LB chooses between playing counterbattery against its opposite number or supporting a push from its escorts)

>Right down at the 'bottom' you have horseback/quadbike mounted operators carrying personal and light anti-tank weapons (fired from the saddle for maximum autism), acting as spotters and engaging targets of opportunity.

Like I said, dumb if not retarded, but it would be a hell of a lot more fun that what we've got at the moment - and just imagine the /k/ webm threads from that timeline. The recruitment/propaganda vids would be pretty fun as well.

>>650849

So, the Memories: Cannon Fodder 20 minute short, except with the addition of a bunch of escort vehicles. I imagine you'd have the problem (or boon) of nobody ever actually hitting anyone in any way that matters because of the super-caliber guns' dispersion and the sheer artillery 'noise' preventing effective counterbattery identification, and the healthy multi kilometer distance kept between the battlelines to preserve the priceless line fighting machines. Every war a phoney war, with the borderlands between more or less ceremonial exchanges of massive shellfire getting intermittently turned into ten thousand Somme craters.

I'd propose adding torpedo boat and 'submarine' equivalents in the form of aerosani, airboats, ekranoplanes, screw drivers and honest to god subterrenes that skate over or under the sea of mud created by all the shooting. Just to primly complete the naval equivalency lineup.

>>651099

I imagine that most major nations borders would remain pretty much entirely static, with war taking place in the no mans land of smaller nations between them (sucks to be one of the guys who lived there). The Land Battleships would ultimately have to stay pretty far away from each other, if one of the, ever got a clear shot at another the damage would put it out of commission for years, dramatically altering the balance of power on the front. Taking one down efficiently would require extensive recon and prep, followed by an autistically well organised armoured push to let the MBT open a corridor to let the heavy tanks get close enough to bring their big guns into play to put the LB out of commission.

If you want to bring more high speed elements into play then you can use LAV/armoured cars outfitted with recoil-less rifles to drive off the cavalry tanks, allowing your cav/MBT to close on the heavy tanks and prevent them from making their push or drive them off their defensive point.

>>651162

What about actual blue water navies of such a timeline?

Would those be centered on either big fun battleships or submarine+torpedo-based destroyer autism?

>>651179

Well, we would have to seriously consider the steel supply available for naval projects after we've signed off on constructing an army consisting of a tens of thousands of light tanks/AFV, a few thousand MBTs, a few hundred P.1000 equivalents, and a single P.1000000 Riesenmonstrum machine translation suggested that this means 'Herculean Monstrosity', excuse me if that's not accurate

Fortunately the worlds premier collection of naval madmen have already given us a solution to that problem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Habakkuk

This timelines deep water navies will be dominated by 2km long Pykrete battleships, carrying batteries of the largest guns that can be produced. They'd be supported by corvette and light destroyer type wooden vessels equipped with much smaller (but still large by modern standards) cannon, and swarms of torpedo boats. Antiship mines will be all but useless against fleets of such non-magnetic ships, focusing the naval battles of this world into something out of the latter days of WW1, but with (mostly) modern tech.

>>651195

>Pykrete battleships

Useless outside of the very northern/southern hemispheres, those things would just melt in the equatorial pacific.

And even if they didn't any damage to ship's insulation would fug it up without some supremely autistic redundant heat/cold dispersal mechanisms.

>>651216

Fair points Germany, show us some proper autism then - you need to build superheavy, nonmetallic warships what do you use?

>>651421

Dead whales fused together into a massive corpseship

>>651421

>>651421

>you need to build superheavy, nonmetallic warships what do you use?

the answer is easy

WE WILL MAKE AN ISLAND

>>651421

>what do you use?

Monoatomic Graphene folded over 1000 times with layers of ERA/dilatant fluids inbetween, that way one can drastically reduce the amount of armor required to survive torps+artillery and make the hull much lighter.

A single battleship would cost trillions of Euros and take a century to build with current tech.

>>651425

I imagine that crewman morale would be fairly low on these corpseships - there's only so many death metal fans available for recruitment at any one time.

>>651428

Hmm, how many tonnes of earth and rock can be extracted from the Middle East/Turkey to build these islands?

>>651431

>A single battleship would cost trillions of Euros and take a century to build with current tech.

Nobody tell Lockheed about this.