/k/ - Weapons

>credit card

>internet

Bingo.

>>638215

yeah but I seriously doubt you motherfuckers are going to pay the even higher cost of retail ammo AND the sales tax on top. Everyone is buying their shit on the internet these days.

and zogbots don't just "know" if you buy on the internet. How do they do it exactly?

>>638216

Uh, they can just check your monthly transaction.

>>638213

>We don't currently have a registry, so how do zogbots know?

<"The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, through its 12 data-mining programs, collects and monitors information for nearly 600 million personal credit-card accounts on a monthly basis. The CFPB is gearing up to monitor 95% of all credit-card transactions by 2016 "

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10907564710791284872504581070502004499610

In 2016, the government was getting copies of 95% of all credit card transactions in the US. That's just the monitoring they publicly admit to. Facebook often knows when you buy something in a local brick and mortar store after they have shown you an ad at home. Take a guess whether the zogbots know what you bought regardless of whether they have an "official" registry. Ever wondered why they stopped pushing for one?

>>638219

>>638216

so you only buy your ammo with cash at retail stores? That's insanely expensive.

what about debit cards?

>>638222

No, I buy online. They already have an incredibly high confidence of who owns guns based on overall assessment of your online habits, what you text, what is in your email, which friends you have, etc (using methods Snowden disclosed, and successor technologies), even if you don't have a CCW permit, never had a NICS check, never used a credit card at any FFL merchant, etc. If you have refused to establish any online footprint, use tor only, don't have a credit card, then you definitely fit the profile as a gun owner.

Do you think they are going to roll in on you with a checklist of a, b, and c firearms, n rounds of 5.56, m rounds of 9mm, et al, and look to only collect that? No, if they SWAT you then they will tear your place apart and take everything they find.

>>638226

Walmart charges $50 more than PSA for a can of 420 rounds of Federal 5.56. Yikes.

>>638226

The true deterrent to that kind of activity is to make the SWAT portion of the equation too costly/bloody to attempt. Zogbots aren't going to risk their lives for $40k a year and pension.

>>638229

Does Walmart scan your ID when you buy ammo "in order to verify your age"? Do you only pay cash? Do you think Walmart couldn't instantly spit out a list of everything I have ever purchased using credit/debt from any of their stores?

I am all about opsec vs gov surveillance, but I don't think this particular concern is worth the cost and effort. If I thought this was the only thing that caused me to become profiled it would be different. I already have a CCW permit and several NICS lookups, so the ship has sailed. This concern would definitely be far lower on the list for me compared to how the government is using my devices and online services to spy on me. Besides, there are how many million gun owners in the US? Being on that list is far less of a red flag than the list you're on for posting on hatechan /k/.

>>638232

Was just an observation. I was there earlier to buy a cleaning kit and wanted to check.

>>638234

I use wikiarms' price tracker to find where to buy ammo. Buying online is far better than it was a long time ago, when every site wanted scanned copies of your ID before they would send ammo. Somewhere along the way that changed into a checkbox you tick at checkout saying "yeah, all of this is legal for me to own", and that's it. No complaints on that, of course.

>>638226

Not talking about SWAT, I've got nothing to hide, I'm wondering about state declared emergency situations or political upheavel or SHTF or w/e.

>>638229

hate to tell you this, but in a month or two EVERYONE will be collected sales tax on e-commerce, it's mandatory now.

>>638232

they're not actively watching the chans because of the default anonymity. If a shooting occurred and was directly tied to 8chan, you can expect servers to be seized like with what happend to gab.ai and those directly involved would be apprehended. However, actual/traditional social media is different. They absolutely do actively track certain profiles, archive those profiles, and in the instance of a shooting ala gab.ai with bowers or w/e, they will be paying you a visit. Many people on gab.ai got visits from the FBI and local state police, and were arrested or threatened. Always use a vpn to post here, and never use actual social media requiring a profile.

so be very careful about what you say here, and pray to god this dumb shithole doesn't produce a bowers.

The issue is most private gun owners don't do background checks when they sell guns, therefore when a citizen sez "I sold my guns, I don't have them" the gun controllers are going to have a hard time proving you wrong. Remember its illegal to sell to a known person prohibited, its not illegal to swap guns with a casual acquiantance you don't know the name of at a gun shop or firing range. This isn't just a way around the law, this is what real Fudd's and gun owning normies actually do, making tracing real guns difficult to impossible. There is nothing barring you from selling a gun to a random asshole that you yourself bought a week before. Strange, but not illegal, and not unheard of in completely legitimate circles.

Ammunition? Forget about it, it can establish you are an active gun owner who burns through a lot of ammunition, and imply you have a gun. Its useful for that, I'll grant you are correct on that, if you buy 1,000 rounds of anything every month it would make sense you own a weapon chambered for that and use it. If they come "where is you stockpile of ammunition" saying "I shot it all" isn't even a clever dodge, its a legit answer. You can use it to cover up for a stockpile because its an answer they can't refuse, they can't prove you didn't blow all those rounds. Because maybe you don't stockpile and practice.

To complicate that matter even worse, you can claim that you don't shoot or stockpile or even own a gun, you got into ammunition speculation and trading after Sandy Hook and you still do it. Claim you go to a few gun shows and haggle and trade with folks, they would have to do a lot of investigation to prove you wrong.

"Where is your stockpile of Hot Pockets you fat fuck?"

"I ate them all because I am a fat fuck."

Now, how do you deal with such a situation? Beyond all of these factors, how many people buy ammunition online? Can they do detailed investigations of every one? Do you think that your "huge' 500 rounds a month you fire and reorder is so big you are red flagged when there are people who buy twice, thrice, more than that?

From a security point of view, geo political thinkers like myself have made grand criticisms of modern data mining because most of the data is fucking worthless and just clogs up the system and uses resources and area that gets in the way of useful information. "We know what brand socks this terrorist wears". OK. Tell me when that's going to be relevant? "This dood once bought 500 rounds of 5.56 on the internetz 2 years ago". OK, what can we do with that? What can anyone do with some of this wholesale information, and how millions of gun owners buy and trade ammunition? Too much data and not enough use.

>>638237

>I've got nothing to hide

If you're OP on a different IP, then I'm questioning the premise of you making this thread. Presuming a wild strelok has appeared:

>I'm wondering about state declared emergency situations or political upheavel or SHTF or w/e.

States and localities don't have access to these lists unless the feds decided to give the data of their own volition. If you want examples of nets being cast, look at how the Census dept "didn't break the law" when they helped the FBI round up the jap US citizens for internment during WWII, and that was with the information technology available in 1942. Compare that to how long it took for NYC to get the list of people who "dodged" the NYC cigarette tax by buying online from one or two vendors. The Katrina confiscations happened in too short of a period for government bureaucrats to even begin to conceptualize the pre-planning meetings for the meetings required to brainstorm the regulatory procedures for divulging data to another agency. The point is: buy online all you want. It's not going to make a difference in the contexts you asked about, and it's not going to target you any more than you're already targeted for everything else you do.

>they're not actively watching the chans

I don't believe that.

>Always use a vpn to post here

Yes, but even that isn't good enough.

>never use actual social media requiring a profile.

Correct, for so many reasons.

>so be very careful about what you say here, and pray to god this dumb shithole doesn't produce a bowers.

Never talk to law enforcement if they come calling. Refer them to your attorney regardless of whether they are arresting you or not. Don't let them bait you out of your 5th amendment right to stfu.

>I apologize, officer, but all my firearms have been stolen. Since we are not legally required to report lost/stolen firearms here in PA, and the criminal threatened to kill me if I told the police, I decided not to file a report.

>>638217

Yeah, but it's not like in the movies where they can just go

>tack-a-tack

>"I'm in!"

>"This guy bought a box of ammo last year - he's our guy!"

They need a warrant, and do you really think that YOU are the one they'll go after?

>>638239

>never talk to law enforcement

if they have your ip address, then you're fucked either way. They'll arrest you, bring that and your silence to the DA, and then you're done.

VPN's are an absolute life-saving necessity when browsing any manner of ab-normal sites on the internet, let alone actually saying shit. Honestly, it's probably best if you simply stop visiting this place full time and all others. It was fun and games for awhile but since the Pittsburgh shooting things have gotten really fucking serious, and of course you know why.

>>638304

Didn't NSA reveal a few years ago that they don't care about breaking the law and jsut do what they want?

>>638333

>if they have your ip address, then you're fucked either way. They'll arrest you, bring that and your silence to the DA, and then you're done.

Okay, I'll bite: how does this specifically play out? You can't be charged for "not incriminating yourself".

My point stands: refer them to your attorney under all circumstances. Nothing they bait you into saying would ever help you, and most spergs here would "cleverly" help themselves by volunteering additional charges for law enforcement additional to press against them. "Heh, heh, officer, I had a boating accident with all my gunz."

Let your attorney manage that. BTW, don't sperg with your attorney either. They are professionally bound to *not* make false statements. So don't spill spaghetti to your attorney, "omgomg, they're all hidden in my basement, you gotta help me tell the cops they got stolen/dumped in a lake I forgot which one!" Wrong. He can't do that now. Be advised there may be questions/facts your attorney does not want to know.

But like I said before, use a VPN here, though even that isn't enough.

>>638339

Absolutely, but the idea is that they still have to jump through hoops to get that information, and they're not going to jump through those hoops for some average Joe Gunowner like me.

Depends on where "from the internet" you order.

If you get if from chinks or russians, it doesn't show up on ZOGbot radar. If you get it from some onion, your information will eventually be sold to ZOGbots, but it's not in immediate danger.

Even if you order it from Amazon.com, you will be on their list, but these people are retarded 90% of actual terrorists slip their list.

>>638343

You're right, they won't jump through hoops to get you. They'll just redflagged you, come to your house, and kill you directly.

They don't need silly things like court or evidence. They are the law and they can make the law whatever they want it to be.

>>638229

Wal-Mart also supports gun control and has upped firearms related purchases to 21

>not just going full nog and stealing that shit

>>638237

>I’ve got nothing to hide

Yer a retard, Harry.

>>638765

It's locked in a glass case like the video games are.

>>638231

>The true deterrent to that kind of activity is to make the SWAT portion of the equation too costly/bloody to attempt. Zogbots aren't going to risk their lives for $40k a year and pension.

This, honestly. The only reason shit like Ruby Ridge, Waco, etc. is considered a "successful" operation is because no one else is doing it. Each holdout like that costs the government boots on the ground who could be committing petty crimes to earn them money through extortion. There are ~5,000 ATF employees of which only ~2,650 of them are field agents. The FBI has roughly 34,000 employees of which ~13,500 of them are field agents. The police are pigs but they're scared for their life by chihuahuas so you don't even have to worry about them. If there was some 50 Waco Texas events or even just a few every month, the FBI/ATF agents would quickly find work elsewhere when they realize just how dangerous their job actually is. Shit, one cop got shot in New York City and the entire police force basically refused to respond to calls for about two weeks (and that was only because the mayor forced them to/threatened them with their paychecks).

Beyond “he has guns” they really don’t need to know much else. Confiscation teams will err on the side of caution and come prepared for anything, no matter what you actually have.

What's it called when your strategy for being anonymous is just blending into a big crowd? I doubt my purchasing habits are any different than that of hundreds of thousands of gun owners. They've got no reason to single me out, and if they did then they would be able to do enough investigation to find out I owned guns regardless. They could fly a plane over my property and see my firing range if they really had to confirm I was a gun owner. If they mass subpeona firearms and ammo sales records I wouldn't stick out from the masses, and I doubt they're going to kick down every door on that list. Now if you're the guying buying literal pallets of 5.56 from UNammo it might be a different story.

>>640039

>What's it called when your strategy for being anonymous is just blending into a big crowd?

Hiding in plain sight.

The problem with that is, that it only works if the predator isn't hunting the entire crowd at the same time.

Also: you are already sticking out just because you are part of that crowd. There are more non-gun owners than there are gun owners, and there are even less gun-owners who buy ammo online, or have a shooting range, or have a couple recent firearms purchases on their credit card, or maybe have some pictures of scary looking rifles on their fagbook profile image recognition software is quite advanced nowadays.

>and I doubt they're going to kick down every door on that list

<It's totally not going to happen, right guise? That would be a bad thing to happen, so let's just ignore that possibility.

>>640167

>They're going to kick in the doors of a hundred thousand people all at once.

Nah. They're either making a targeted search, in which case they're doing an in-depth investigation and there's shit all I can do to keep from getting targeted if they're already looking into me, or they're doing a mass sweep based on something like a retailers records in which case they'll prioritize based on some variable such as amount or frequency of purchase wherein I would not differ significantly enough from the norm of other purchasers to stand out as worth pursuing individually. If they wanted to they could get around to me eventually, but it'll hit the news cycle when they bust the first few guys with 100k round stockpiles and I'll know what's up hopefully in time to bugout.

Even if you went full paperless and just got everything for cash at gunshows it's known that law enforcement have done mass collection of license plate numbers at such events before, ostensibly looking for felons but who knows where else that data ends up at. If they want you, they'll get you. Best you can do is try not to be an outlier.

>>638213

Well you can't do much about the internet part aside from a VPN you trust, but you can buy gift visas with cash and use them online. It's usually a $3-8 activation fee but if you can get a few hundred per card, you should be harder to track.

Of course vpns can give up your information, stores have security cameras they'll turn over without resistance, and your countries flavor of IRS can probably still get a general idea of your location by regional spending habits and stores you get cards from. No one is completely untraceable.

>>640185

I don't think you know how a VPN works. It encrypts everything. Your ISP might be able to see your encrypted traffic but they shouldn't (in theory at least) be able to decode it. This has been proven with the FBI not being able to (legally) get data from PIA for example. Not saying glowniggers don't have other methods but using them would blow their cover instantly.

>>640208

> the FBI not being able to (legally) get data from PIA

>(legally)

You even pointed the keyword yourself. What makes you think that conspirators hellbent on world dominance and genocide would have a second thought breaking laws when they are above the law?

>>640187

How do you cover things on the shipping end? PO boxes don't hide shit. I've heard some people just have it shipped to an empty house and pick it up off the porch, but I feel like USPS would notice something was up delivering to a home nobody was at, or the neighbors would see you grabbing the packages and call the cops.

>>640241

What you're describing is called a "drop". There a various methods, but you won't get it for free either you will dig the information out yourself or pay for it (and get decade old methods). Dropping to a vacant house is obviously not ideal at all. For that you're looking for something suburban, but isolated they don't know their neighbors/property like rural people and way less likely to be armed. Groom the house so it looks lived in. Change your appearance to suit whatever you "reason" for being on the property. Any houses with a wooded back is good. Go through the backwoods, pick up package, 5 seconds.

Instead pay someone (and lie up and down who you are, at this point I am betting you have a fake ID) to do the pickup and do a dead drop.

>>640266

>Dropping to a vacant house is obviously not ideal at all.

Right, and the other "ghost address" methods that worked in the past won't work now. Have you noticed the USPS has a database of all valid addresses? If you enter an address for online shipping, many vendors will ping that database and offer "corrections" based on the match. E.g. merely adding another numbered mailbox to a row of rural mailboxes isn't going to work (if it ever did).

I doubt ((they)) will ever check ammo purchases. Just owning a gun is enough to put you on whatever list. We've already been disarmed anyways. Under the constitution we're allowed ownership of everything from fully automatic to artillery pieces. As of now we've been limited to mere small arms.

I they've already banned us from owning the big guns which you'd need to overthrow a corrupt government, they can easily ban our small arms.

>>640347

>they can easily ban our small arms

Then they'd also have to ban any nuclear missiles in the stockpile, as they're owned by Lockheeb, on loan to the DOD.

>>640357

This make no sense. They'll exempt themselves, like they already do with nukes and artillery, etc

>>638216

>and zogbots don't just "know" if you buy on the internet

Depending on where and how you buy it, they can "just know".

You're placing your entire trust on your credit card company and the site you're buying from, they have your name, information about the transaction and everything that's needed to fuck you, if either of them snitches (see >>638219 ) you're fucked.

And that's not all, hacking exists. Of course, unless you're someone important, the NSA won't just waste time to find out what's the last thing you bought, but that's implying they're aiming for you in specific. It's in the best interest of fudds to know about gun transactions, so there's a reason for them to seek that information, and no reason not to, as the whole Snowden situation has showed.

As a rule of thumb, if it can be traced back to you, it's not safe. If you don't care just do whatever, if you do, buy in cash leaving as little info behind as possible.

Buy your ammo at small pawn shops with cash.