/k/ - Weapons

6.5mm Swiss, 14.5x114mm, and .30 Carbine.

7,5x54mm MAS buries 8mm Mauser and 30-06, even .308.

7.92×33mm Kurz and 7.62x39mm

>>628113

Nearly all of them were in the 7-8mm range and delivered around 3000-4000 joules, and their ballistics weren't that different either. The only notable expections are 6,5mm Arisaka, 6,5mm Mannlicher-Carcano and 7,35×51mm Carcano. Out of that three, the only effective one was the 6,5mm Arisaka.

>>628114

There is no such cartridge as "6.5mm Swiss", you are either thinking of 6,5mm Swedish or 7,5mm Swiss. Neither of them was used during ww2. And the other two are not rifle cartridges (expect if you want to include AT rifles in this category, but you shouldn't).

>>628117

Those are not rifle catrtidges, and 7,62x39 was still in development during the conflict.

>>628120

>7,62x39 was still in development during the conflict.

Supposedly it got field trials during the very end of the war, but it still doesn't count.

>were in the 7-8mm range and delivered around 3000-4000 joules, and their ballistics weren't that different either

Stuff like rim/rimless and spitzer/round nose make a pretty significant difference.

>>628124

>rim/rimless

The main difference is that producing rimmed up-to-standards is easier, while rimless makes the life of the weapon designer easier. But you can run an army just fine with rimmedd ammunition, as both the Brits and the Russians demonstrated it.

>spitzer/round nose

That much is obvious, but as far as I know 6,5mm Carcano was the only significant one that still used a round-nosed projectile.

>>628124

Also, forgot this:

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/08/13/sks-31-the-7-62x54mmr-predecessor-of-the-7-62x39mm-sks/

>Kalashnikov Gun Magazine has published another interesting article telling about Sergei Simonov’s 7.62x54mmR SKS-31 rifle that preceded the SKS that we know today. The purpose of KGM’s article was not only to tell about this rather unknown rifle but also to bust the myth according to which SKS has been used in WW2.

>Long story short, the myth was born probably because the SKS-31 rifles were issued to a Soviet Army unit during the WW2 but they never took part in actual fights against the enemy. So the SKS we know today never fought in WW2. Its predecessor, the SKS-31 was issued in limited numbers for testing but never took part in a fight. That’s it. The myth is busted.

>>628132

>TFB

>a source known to lie about guns and editorialise frequently as well as supporting anti-gun legislation

>article doesn't prove its claims or provide an original source

<an earlier gun existed which means this one was never used!

>no causal link or relevance established whatsoever

>>628133

>burger

>anything

https://www.kalashnikov.ru/sks-kotoryj-tak-i-ne-vstupil-v-boj/

7.5×55mm Swiss was the most effective. The Swiss ended the war with nearly no casualties and none of their industry destroyed.

>>628152

can't destroy a money laundering industry with bombs, friend

>>628120

>neither of them was used during ww2

The Finns used some 6.5mm Swedish Mausers

>>628120

>.30 carbine, 14.5x114, 8x33 and 7.62x39

>not rifle cartridges

Just because they're not typical "full power" battle-rifle style rifle cartridges, doesn't mean they're not rifle cartridges. What are they then? Pistol cartridges?

>>631346

>quoting the same post twice

Don't.

>What are they then? Pistol cartridges?

If only there was a name for the category of weapons and cartridges that are between pistols and rifles. Like, dunno, carbine? You know, like in the name of .30 carbine. Of course that AT rifle cartridge is the odd one here, but as I've said, it's too big of a beast to casually throw it into this mix.

>>631351

>Like, dunno, carbine

Except carbine is a meme non-designation that has no set meaning. It can refer to rifle-sized pistol calbier weapons as well as shortened rifles, the correct designation is assault rifle, note the "rifle" part. A gun doesn't have to be a bolt action rifle or a battle rifle to be a rifle, assault rifles are still rifles.

>>628152

>nearly no casualties and none of their industry destroyed

>none of their industry destroyed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombings_of_Switzerland_in_World_War_II

Ammis are too incompetent to bomb the right country.

>>631375

British bombing and destruction of supply lines killed more Jews than you good goys ever managed to.

>>631375

Incompetence, pressure to perform, "target rich environment" and an abundance of ammunition.

Same reason why so many friendly fire incidents happened in Korea and Vietnam.

>>631359

> carbine is a meme non-designation

"Assault rifle" is the translation of Sturmgewehr, a complete memedesignation coined by Hitler for propaganda reasons. First they called it Maschinenkarabiner, then they redesigned it as Maschinenpistole 43 to keep Hitler from stopping the project. Following the usual assault weapon logic, every rifle used in an assault should be an assault rifle. Actually, the Swiss Stgw 57 is chambered for 7,5mm Swiss, and the Austrians adopted the FN FAL under the StG 58 designation.

>it can refer to rifle-sized pistol calbier weapons as well as shortened rifles

And? If you say "carbine cartridge" then people will think of a cartridge that is somewhere between a pistol and a rifle cartridge in power. Except if they are retarded or suffer from a very particular kind of autism.

>>631384

This

>>631385

>every rifle used in an assault should be an assault rifle

Except that's not the definition, the definition of an assault rifle is:

>It must be capable of selective fire.

>It must have an intermediate-power cartridge: more power than a pistol but less than a standard rifle or battle rifle, such as the 7.92×33mm Kurz, the 7.62x39mm and the 5.56x45mm NATO.

>Its ammunition must be supplied from a detachable box magazine.

>It must have an effective range of at least 300 metres (330 yards).

>If you say "carbine cartridge" then people will think of a cartridge that is somewhere between a pistol and a rifle cartridge in power

Same as if you said "assault rifle cartridge" or "intermediate cartridge".

>>631387

Now you are just getting autistic for no good reason. So let's get back to here:

>>631346

Is 5.56 NATO a rifle or an intermediate cartridge? Are rifle, pistol and intermediate cartridges three separate categories?

>>631388

>Is 5.56 NATO a rifle or an intermediate cartridge?

Intermediate cartridges are a class of rifle cartridges. Same as "full power"/battle rifle cartridges and anti-tank rifle cartridges.

>>631377

>>631384

Thank you my greatest ally.

>>631378

So the saying that 'everybody seeks cover when the americans fire' is true.

I probably completely botched the saying and nobody gets what I mean.

>>631405

When the american's fire, everyone takes cover. Even the americans.

Because the americans have so much ammo that they don't care if they hit the enemy, miss the enemy, or miss the enemy by so much that they hit themselves. They just want to get rid of the ammo so they can buy new shit.

6.5x55 Swedish.

>>631427

7.7 Jap

Just because it was basically the original .303 British rimless design that was going to be adopted before that one officer autist fucked it all up

Didn't meant to respond, oops.

>>631405

>I probably completely botched the saying and nobody gets what I mean

<When the Germans fire the British duck.

<When the British fire the Germans duck.

<Then the Americans fire EVERYBODY ducks.

I wouldn't say you botched it there m8.

>>631525

Story time?

I only say 6.5 swed because my AG-42 rips right through steel (something about cross sectional density being higher) and has pretty good accuracy. That being said my K98K is Russian capture and therefore not the best quality and I haven’t compared it to my m8’s Enfield yet. I won’t even bother with my Mosin, and I have no access to a Arisaka and I’ve only seen two Carcanos at gunshows. So I suppose I shouldn’t have even voiced my opinion.