e9d20c No.613821
Why shortswords get so little attention compared to other bladed weapons? Throughout history they've been the most common sidearm yet almost no info or discussion exists around this class of weapons, aside from discussing individual models. So, let this be a shortsword thread. Post your gladiuses, knoifes, tantos, machetes, cinquedeas, seaxes, messers, cutlasses or whatever.
8ed5fe No.613830
They short into evolve into survival knife/bayonet nowadays so it's kinda cool.
39c711 No.613846
bdb05b No.613854
>>613821
They were the most common sidearm because they were cheap and easy to mass produce. A longsword or spear will always be superior because of its reach, and a dagger will always be superior for concealment or short-ranged attacks. Given the actual stopping power of a shortsword, I'd rather have a hammer or a club or an axe if I'm going to sacrifice reach anyways.
e9d20c No.613857
>>613854
There's a thin line between a long dagger and a shortsword and a longsword would be a bit of a hassle to use or just get ready in a self-defense situation, especially in tighter spaces. Longsword is hard to carry not only because of length of the blade but the handle as well so broadsword would be better and hauling a spear with you to the shop every day is pretty stupid. Shortswords are generally lighter and more nimble than clubs or maces as well, even more so if you look at the later ones such as smallswords.
fa7c33 No.613880
>>613821
> Throughout history they've been the most common sidearm
Main sidearm in Europe was arming sword or simply "sword" that later transferred into complex hilt swords. They are not short.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03HIYgLWGu0
If anything entire name "short sword" is AD&D invention (AD&D also misused longsword name).
e9d20c No.613885
>>613880
Arming sword is a bit too expensive and is of little use as a tool, unlike some of the shorter blade weapons. Longer daggers were more common, especially if we consider a knife blade 6" long today. The closest example from "swords" would be oakeshott type 14, though things like messers were used more often, in this case especially for the reason they were not "swords" per se.
I still think that this classification is of use because of the usage of such weapons extensively by civilians.
af40f5 No.613889
>>613821
>Why shortswords get so little attention compared to other bladed weapons?
Because machetes already exist and has more utility to top it all off
ca2ea4 No.613895
>>613889
I have that exact machete and it's been the most useful thing I have for the garden because the weeds go fucking wild in my backyard.
f99d00 No.613896
>>613821
>Why shortswords get so little attention compared to other bladed weapons?
Because "Ehhhhhhhh, big sword, cling clang, kill the orcs LMAO!" that's why. Big swords look visually impressive so therefore they make more appearances in media, so that's the type of stuff people get interested in.
>>613889
Machetes are more of a long knife, than a short sword. The reason they have more utility is because they were always intended to be a utility first tool. Not a weapon. The only people that consider machetes to be good weapons are shitskins and edgy teens that think's they'll need it when the zombies come.
ca2ea4 No.613899
>>613896
But they are good weapons in about the same category as a one handed axe.
f99d00 No.613903
>>613899
Which are also shit. Also, no they're not, most machetes simply do not have enough mass at the top of the blade to have the same pros that axes have (granted they also lack a lot of the cons that axes have but whatever.) They aren't abnormally good against armor, they don't have a hook to pull down an enemy's shield, they don't allow you to choke up on your grip to give you better control. They're shit.
Besides, like I said, axes are kinda shit. Swords are the best all around melee weapon, hands down. You can argue that "oh spears have better reach, and are better in formations." and they are, but no one is going to lug a spear around all day. You can say, "knives are easy to carry!" but they have absolute SHIT reach and almost no defensive capabilities. Knifes are a tool first and a weapon second. You can say "oh axes are better against heavy armor than swords." and they are, but warhammers/maces are better and they BOTH have a relatively small striking area. Like what, 6ish inches for an axe? Less for a warhammer? If you over extend then you hit them with the handle, possibly damaging your weapon, and if you under extend then you woosh past and throw yourself off balance.
Swords are easy to carry, especially if you have a holster on your belt. They have decent reach, they can cut like a knife, chop like an axe, or thrust like a spear if needs be. They have a large striking area, and true, they don't do great against armor directly, but they're usually agile enough that you can maneuver your blade into an armpit or some other chink in the armor.
TL;DR Machetes are shitty axe-knife hybrids and swords blow everything else out of the fucking water.
458170 No.613905
>>613903
>Talking about muh best melee weapon without context
f99d00 No.613906
>>613905
>I can't into words good so I'm just gonna post this britcuck saying mean things lol!
When it comes to all around, general purpose melee weapons, swords are the best option.
458170 No.613908
>>613906
Not all swords are the same you autistic faggot. A kopis isn't a spatha, isn't an arming sword, isn't a spadroon, isn't a rapier, isn't a falchion, isn't a montante, isn't a sabre, isn't a dao, isn't a basket-hilted broadsword, isn't a wakizashi, isn't a longsword.
To say "swords are the best melee weapons" is fucking retarded, because no two types of sword are the same.
f3f5f9 No.613915
>>613908
>pedantic faggotry about how an arming sword is completely different and not at all comparable to a spatha
>in a discussion of the virtues of one-handed swords over daggers and axes
<calling the other guy autistic
458170 No.613916
>>613915
A low-functioning autist, obsessed with swords because that's what his favourite cartoon characters use.
4c9ede No.613917
>>613821
>shortswords
>not swordbayonets
>>613903
>best all around mêlée weapon
>not the hand grenade
f99d00 No.613919
>>613916
>>613908
>YEAH BUT WAT KIND OF SORD THO! HEHE, GOT YOU NOW BUCKAROO!
The thread is literally called "Shortsword thread"
And yes obviously not all swords are created equal. Just like not all guns are created equal, so if I were to go ahead and say "guns are the best all around, ranged infantry weapons" are you gonna sperg out about how "hurr durr rifles and pistols are different." because that's a non-issue. I am well aware that guns are different, but I'd still rather have a gun, pistol/rifle/shotgun, than an atlatl or longbow. Just like I'm well aware that swords are different, but i'd still rather have a sword, saber/rapier/whatever, than a fucking pocket knife.
Now sure, you could say, "hurr durr, muskets are guns, and they're shit compared to this new full auto crossbow!" and sure, there's probably some crossover on the extreme ends of the spectrum. However, GENERALLY SPEAKING, I'd take a gun over a crossbow any day, and GENERALLY SPEAKING, I'll take a sword over a spear.
>>613917
kek
1a2fe8 No.613920
>>613917
>Not using the ultimate melee MAD device
Come on now.
458170 No.613921
>>613919
>They have decent reach, they can cut like a knife, chop like an axe, or thrust like a spear if needs be
>The thread is literally called "Shortwsword thread"
Good luck chopping with a fucking shortsword.
f99d00 No.613922
>>613921
Not very easy, sure, but it can be done in a pinch.
1a2fe8 No.613923
>>613921
Engineers and Artillery men were issued short swords back in the 1800's explicitly for chopping shit up.
458170 No.613927
>>613923
You mean the shortswords that were basically xiphos-shaped machetes, and handled like shit due to their weight?
55c5bb No.613938
>>613927
>Trying this hard to still look smart after getting assblasted
054b7c No.614006
>short sword
That's because they are the most average of D&D weapons. Sage for all thr fat fuck LARPers thinking they're expert swordsman. Most of you couldn't complete a 1000 stroke drill let a lone be able to cut anything thicker than a sandwich.
bdb05b No.614052
>>613903
You do know that 98% of sword fighting is martial arts and throwing your opponent off-balance/on the ground, and only 2% actually using the sword to injure/kill someone, right?
bdb05b No.614054
>>613919
>so if I were to go ahead and say "guns are the best all around, ranged infantry weapons" are you gonna sperg out about how "hurr durr rifles and pistols are different."
Yes, as any anon should.
1a2fe8 No.614057
>>613927
I dunno about handling like shit given those fuckers went through hellish Florida swamp brush during the Seminole wars. Even the Frogs liked theirs.
5db6af No.614158
>>613903
>no one is going to lug a spear around all day
Why on earth would they not? Unless you're specifically referring to the eight-to-ten-foot pikes that were commonly used in formation, pretty much any spear will be lighter than a sword and can double as a walking stick.
5db6af No.614160
>>613919
>if I were to go ahead and say "guns are the best all around, ranged infantry weapons" are you gonna sperg out about how "hurr durr rifles and pistols are different
Shit, I should have kept reading before I posted. Welcome to /k/, faggot.
458170 No.614221
>>614057
Yeah, they were good in those environments because they're basically misshapen machetes. There are very few accounts of them being used in combat whatsoever.
dcd665 No.614223
>>614052
> 98%
Stop pulling numbers out of your fat ass.
fa7c33 No.614326
>>613885
>Arming sword is a bit too expensive
Warriors could afford it. Those who can't didn't participate in the Medieval war in other way than victims.
>and is of little use as a tool
>using combat arms as tools
Pleb. Go bring me my taxes, slav(e).
> usage of such weapons extensively by civilians.
No such thing in the archeology.
European swords that could be classified as "short swords" are gladius, katzbalger, hanger and cutlass. Some points:
1. None of them are called short sword in the first place but have their own name. because just "sword" was name for the sword of normal length.
2. Minus gladius, latter period "short swords" were quite rare and used by specific groups and were greatly outnumbered of swords of "normal" length.
b8c05b No.614328
I bought this and it's good; it's been referred to as a machete but it's a sword
e9d20c No.614467
>>614326
>Warriors could afford it.
Warriors used swords, while civilians generally used things that were not called swords, like long daggers similar to cinquedea.
>Pleb. Go bring me my taxes, slav(e).
Being pretentious little faggot without arguments will only make your statements more ironic, britcuck.
>using combat arms as tools
More like having tools that are used as combat arms. Go be a "proud warrior" faggot somewhere else. Knights used daggers both as tools and as weapons extensively, so what?
Knives or daggers were quite a bit longer than they are today and were carried more often. Longer of them, like those used by hunters fit really well for the term.
>European swords that could be classified as "short swords" are gladius, katzbalger, hanger and cutlass.
As well as messers, cinquedeas, seaxes, and other sheeit that didn't have a name other than a "long knife".
>2. Minus gladius, latter period "short swords" were quite rare and used by specific groups and were greatly outnumbered of swords of "normal" length.
>What is smallsword or colichemarde.
e9d20c No.614469
>>614467
Also, dirks and shorter falchions, which are nothing more than sharpened machetes with better blade.
458170 No.614474
>>614467
>Cinquedeas
>Anything other than a fashion accessory
e9d20c No.614476
>>614474
They do look sexy tbh.
fa7c33 No.614480
>>614469
Falshions are rainbow unicorns rarity things. There are literally only bloody 2 (two) fully preserved found. One is the musee de cluny cl.3452 falchion, you pic is reproduction of it, and another with clipped point. All reproductions of falchions are made using them two as pattern, makes you think.
Swords on the other hand were found in thousands across entire Europe everywhere.
>>614467
>More like having tools that are used as combat arms
People just had separate set of tools more suited for use and abuse of work be design and price, like tool axes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xc0opvjaiJw
>Knights used daggers both as tools
I would like to see how you would use rondell dagger as tool.
>messers
Messers are normal sword length.
>cinquedeas
Yeah forgot about that thingy. Same point. Special name, special usage, surrounded by masses of "standard" swords.
>seaxes
It a tool/kitchen knife. But yeah you kill people with it like with kitchen knife today you do.
fa7c33 No.614481
>>614474
They are very probably result of sword control. Though real reasons are lost.
e9d20c No.614488
>>614480
>Falshions are rainbow unicorns rarity things.
Do they have thinner blade so that it degrades faster?
>People just had separate set of tools more suited for use and abuse of work be design and price, like tool axes.
Sure, if they were going to carry a weapon. Therefore they'd use something that's at hand in case of emergency.
>I would like to see how you would use rondell dagger as tool.
Rondell dagger is not the only kind of dagger. Bollock dagger' shape is not that far from our modern knives' blades.
>Messers are normal sword length.
Earlier designs are not and shorter models are not uncommon, i even posted a version of one here already.
>It a tool/kitchen knife. But yeah you kill people with it like with kitchen knife today you do.
They were used as weapons quite extensively, be it a sidearm or an improvised weapon. If you wear a big thing similar to bowie knife and get problems you'd probably use it and not some stick laying nearby or your fists.
dcd665 No.614491
>>614483
>someone saved that ms paint I made
wew. It was made on December 18, 2017. It was a thread about riot gear I think.
4b863f No.615068
>>614221
>Yeah, they were good in those environments because they're basically misshapen machetes. There are very few accounts of them being used in combat whatsoever.
<Highly specialized tools/weapons are not as versatile as the non-specialized varieties.
Fucking Einstein up in here boys.
Yeah, supper-chopper swords aren't great at some other things, just like a super-slicer sword isn't gonna be great at thrusting.
Fucking Aussies man. Go get your sword license and THEN we can talk.
1d490b No.617379
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>613917
>>not the hand grenade
A bomb's a bad choice for close-range combat.
834aa7 No.620711
>>617379
I bet you're the sort of faggot who doesn't even want to fill a Zero with sufficient explosives to gloriously destroy an aircraft carrier.
e752d5 No.620712
>>620711
Why didn't they make the handle longer? This way you have a higher chance of detonating it and surviving.
305697 No.620716
>>620712
How would you get rid of the idiots in the squad then?
e752d5 No.620717
>>620716
Send them to recon the area, every time
45a4df No.620726
>>620712
>ambush weapon
>lets make it an 18ft long sarissa mine
Absolutely Greek
7cf937 No.620785
>>614328
>it's been referred to as a machete but it's a sword
There's no real difference between the two.
f3f5f9 No.620817
>>620726
A longer pole would probably make it better for ambushes, since the tank commander is much more likely to spot the gook holding the bomb than the bomb itself.
2c6bc8 No.621442
>>614491
Yep, that was a good thread
b490cd No.621542
>>613821
Too practical and cost effective to be cool.
b490cd No.621546
>>613908
Might be wrong but a spatha was essentially just a double-edged kopis (essentially a machete) for pretty much the same purpose, as slashing weapons (kopis was also a more generic term referring also to non-militant purposes, like cleaving). Think you might mean xiphos instead of spatha, that was the more typical sword (and later became largely synonymous with the genderneutral word for spatha, "spathi").
458170 No.621593
>>621546
>spatha was essentially just a double-edged kopis
In English nomenclature, the spatha is straight, and the kopis curves forwards.
>kopis was also a more generic term referring also to non-militant purposes, like cleaving
>genderneutral word for spatha, "spathi"
I know this since I'm a fetanigger too, but again, English nomenclature.
80f670 No.622178
>>621593
That post kinda clarifies things. By "spatha" you mean the standardized latinized/byzantine style, not the more inclusive context of the original "σπάθα" term, pre-Roman spathes often were shorter and/or leaf-shaped.
5426f4 No.622245
>sword
>not using a knife like a real man
458170 No.622256
>>622245
>What is a messer
a99974 No.622270
>>622245
Looks like something from Final Fantasy.
8e1a95 No.622712
File: 06fe2dc18216e83⋯.jpg (Spoiler Image, 284.67 KB, 990x830, 99:83, Anima__new_swords_set_1_by….jpg)
File: 505df8647966d0b⋯.jpg (Spoiler Image, 131.22 KB, 877x1206, 877:1206, anima more_swords_hohoho_b….jpg)
File: f015b164a81315a⋯.jpg (Spoiler Image, 201.37 KB, 1328x969, 1328:969, anima sword_designs_by_Wen….jpg)
File: edd12aa22c1fdc3⋯.jpg (Spoiler Image, 248.85 KB, 1685x970, 337:194, Anima__Scythes_set_1_by_We….jpg)
File: 1345017c781280d⋯.jpg (Spoiler Image, 403.86 KB, 1280x960, 4:3, Anima__Kyler_knives_Wallpa….jpg)
>>622245
YoU asKEd FoR ThIS
5c04d8 No.623062
>>622712
How would the Berserker Fang even work?
3764bf No.623117
>>622712
Middle of first pick, #1 from left in 3, and the scythe in 4th pic with the girl on it (I actually kinda like the general idea of it) don't look too bad.
a43b79 No.623160
>>622712
I'd swear you'd think japs have never even seen real weapons and drew these based solely on vague descriptions. And the worst part isn't even that they are totally impractical rather its that most of them don't even look cool they look like awkward boat paddles with spikes sticking out seemingly at random.
572897 No.623173
Machetes are tools, large knives and short swords and have obscene kill numbers in Africa and South America. Swords don't get much attention because they're obsolete as a professional weapon, hurt the fee-fees of the gore-adverse, and exist primarily in utility roles.
1d7cfe No.623253
>>622245
>using swords
>not channeling ki into wooden branches
0892cf No.623266
>>613896
1 million dead Tutsis disagree with you
69c8b2 No.623503
>>623160
The same artist could and did draw sane and even tasteful swords, so he doesn't even have ignorance as an excuse.
fce991 No.625312
You're only talking about shortswords, what about my porksword?
OW!!
e9d20c No.632177
I'll resurrect this thread with a few new picks. I've found these when searching for daggers and these are something really unusual.
2b6d25 No.632765
Anyone else a fan of leaf blades? They look so fucking sexy.
78d1a5 No.632793
Why did sword bayonets and long bayonets in general die? the US and bongs still train with bayonets and iirc the bongs have used bayonet charges as recently as 2011. Apparently, it was fairly successful.
Either way, you really only need the pointy end. The rest of the sword is mostly useless in combat, unless cutting stuff is explicitly called for(like cutting the heads off of superior polearms).
A more powerful cut can be done with an axe, and a longer and more powerful stab can be done with almost any polearm. Swords are like the f-35 of melee weapons: far too expensive, jack-of-all-trades master of none.
e9d20c No.632794
>>632765
I like half-fuckingleaf shaped ones more tbh, though these are fine too.
6a2183 No.632795
>>632793
>Knowledge forged through thousands of years of war between the greatest European generations ever existed, are debunked by some retard on a mongolian anime drawing image board who claims swords are useless
e9d20c No.632796
>>632794
Also here's your daily supply of sexy blades, streloks.
e57543 No.632799
>>632793
Go get a long rifle and throw another 17-20" on the end of it and run around some tight corridors, better yet do some house clearing. A short pig sticker will fuck someone just as well as a long one.
78d1a5 No.632800
>>632795
>knowledge forged through thousands of years of war
>knowledge that points to polearms being far more combat effective than swords
even you, gyronigger?
e33cad No.632803
>>632793
>Why did sword bayonets and long bayonets in general die?
Excess weight and volume with very little actual use.
Bayonet charges are for desperate times necessitated by poor tactics that would make running at people with loaded guns a good idea.
6a2183 No.632804
>>632800
Polearms are the superior weapon, but swords aren't "the f-35 of medieval weapons"
c44ef4 No.635089
Some guy selling 2 Chinese swords and a dagger on craigslist for around $50 each.
Can anyone I.D them?
6acaf5 No.635092
>>635089
Nine out of ten says they're wallhangers.
778813 No.635100
7cf937 No.635134
>>635089
Only buy swords if they're full tang and made of at least 1040 steel and even that's a little too low, but it will work.
c0fe68 No.635135
File: 247baeba132db7b⋯.png (Spoiler Image, 2.82 MB, 1923x2000, 1923:2000, 247baeba132db7b4a52a56bd70….png)
>>635100
No. It's clearly a meme.
7773ee No.638267
>>614052
you do know that was only in the case of knights and other armored opponents?
combat between the normal foot-soldiers mostly came down to trying to shank the other fucker before he could shank you.
0e508f No.638284
>>614052
That's fucking wrong.
Most sword fighting technique is about slashing/thursting with the sword.
>>635260
>>635157
People carry both, they would carry a polearm/greatsword, a shortshort/a mace/an axe and a large knife/dagger.
Medieval weapons are not heavy so you can carry multiple of times, especially in the day when there's less uniformity in combat.
f75ea9 No.646785
>>613854
A longsword may have superior reach, but is also heavier and more difficult to manipulate. A dagger offers too small a reach and cannot parry. Shortsword is a compromise between them, offering relatively light weight and good manipulation while maintaining a decent reach with the possibility of parrying.
Weight might not seem like that big an issue considering all swords were relatively light (shortsword would weight about 1kg, maybe even less, while a longsword would be 1.5kg or a bit more. Of course it depends on the particular model), but one needs to realise he needs to swing that thing quickly, with force, over a long period of time (if it's a battle) and many swords during the period weren't balanced properly, leading to yet more power one would need to use to manipulate it.
If you are a /fit/ swordmaster, pick a longsword. If you're a weak-armed little shit who knows nothing about blades, get a dagger. If you are somewhere in between, a shortsword would be the way to go.
5bf603 No.646829
Can anything beat the machete?
>Cheap
>Has a lot of weight in the tip (essential in shortswords for hacking)
>Basically an axe/sword hybrid in balance, weight and mobility as well as cutting edge length
>Actually useful innawoods
>>613896
>It's not sold to me as a weapon by some greasy neckbeard from kkkult of Athena therefore it's not a weapon
>>613854
>Spear carrying African gets robbed
>Thief just shanks him before he can operate his unwieldy log
>Based and redpilled shortsword user gets robbed
>Cuts the bandit in half
19824b No.646906
>>646244
it looks like some cheap chinese toy
l like it
1315a4 No.647254
>>622712
Cringe and hideous
8bb504 No.647602
>>613821
ww1 bayonets make good short swords
0f73f9 No.648078
>>646829
>brazilian shitskin praising the machete
Like clockwork
e9d20c No.648082
>>646785
>If you are a /fit/ swordmaster, pick a longsword. If you're a weak-armed little shit who knows nothing about blades, get a dagger.
I think it's the other way around, except for longsword, which is just another class of weapon and you probably wouldn't carry it. Shortsword has some reach and can swing and stab pretty easily, as well as allowing hand to hand combat while not being limited to it, while a dagger is much harder to use effectively, i.e. not bleeding out after getting in a knife fight. Longsword would be even better due to reach but it's an apples to oranges comparison.
>>646244
An overglorified shovel tbh.
79fb3e No.651918
>>635134
Would X46Cr13 steel be better or at minimum equivalent to 1040? I'm no metallurgist, so I don't know what ratios of metals make for a "good" steel, and there's a blade I like the design of made of it I'm considering. The blade's more of a chopper than thruster, if that affects the judgement.
79fb3e No.651919
>>651918
I decided to look up some information regarding both steels using the makeitfrom site. I still don't really understand everything, but would it be safe to say that the higher score makes for a better/tougher alloy? This is the matchup of the two in regards to mechanical properties; X46Cr13 is the top bar and 1040 is the bottom.
ec2e25 No.655149
I recommend the $6 machete with saw-back and sheath.
standard equip of the 3rd world for a reason.
I put some polycarb like this top and bottom bent around the tip and was able to ram into sheath. otherwise sheath rips soon.https://www.greenhousemegastore.com/hardware-diy/covering-installation/polycarbonate-install/plastic-u-profile-6-foot-length
ec2e25 No.655151
>>655149
PS-if you want a heavier machete get the US GI made for about $20, but the GI plastic sheath is about $16 and heavy.
you could probably use the Harbor Freight sheath
ec2e25 No.655152
https://www.buyingasword.com/ornate-royal-khopesh
I like the HOOKS on these Egyptian sword.
I've had success in scuffles not by shoving or hitting, but by yanking an arm as I'm shoving or tripping them, and they fall on their own arm and pop an elbow. They know its over and need to see a doctor, but I didn't do it, they fall on their own arm.