e31ea3 No.579988
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Mongol_invasion_of_Hungary
Anyone have any stuff on knights vs mongols. According to this article one of the reason the Mongols got deep dicked was because they faced more knights than in their previous invasion.
cc6285 No.580086
>>579988
Not about the Hungarians, but Knights aka heavy armored cavalry has a history of fucking up asian steppe nomads primarily armed with bows, because their arrows fail to be effective against the armor.
The Holy Roman Empire itself defeated the Hungarian Invasion of Europe in the Battle of Lechfeld primarily with Knights and the success of many crusades would be impossible without them.
At lot of European military developments(Knights, Pike Square, the usage of Crossbows, the Castle building) from the medieval to the modern period happened as an answer to West Asian Invasions.
Europeans didn't always win these battles, but they constantly learned from their losses.
886708 No.580254
>>579988
because
1. europe is more forested than the plains of central asia. horses weren't as effective.
2. the only reason europe got saved was because ogedai khan or whatever died and the armies got recalled.
02beed No.580257
Ahh yes, the second Hungarian civil war.
7ab55c No.580268
>>579988
Interesting thread OP, even if poorly made.
Daily reminder—it's ALWAYS the mongols.
On another note, why are there three shitpost threads?
>>580257
:^)
bdd37c No.580272
>>580268
based finns I guess
e31ea3 No.580274
>>580254
>Muh horse archers are unstappable
>Mongols woulda won if X didn't happen
Like you said the terrain wasn't what they were used to, but it didn't really didn't fuck over horses since the knights did just fine on horse back on that terrain. What it did do was force them into melee combat with the knights, who totally outclassed them in that area. They could've been led by Genghis himself and they still would have lost catastrophically. There was no way mongols who specialized in shoot and scoot tactics were fighting hand to hand with European knights.
4b2b42 No.580277
>>580274
>>580086
This. Stone arrowheads can't melt steel furnaces.
4b2b42 No.580278
>>580268
>wikipedia as a source
7f405f No.580297
>>580268
Jesus, tittyfucking, christ. Did whoever made that second pic really not even stretch to lifting the source listed in the wikipedia page? Even retarded first year undergrads can figure that one out. Are we just going to pretend that it was a Mongol horde that relieved the siege at Vienna in the late 17th century? I mean I know that Poland getting overlooked and ignored is pretty much a meme at this point, but that's getting retarded.
4b2b42 No.580317
>>580297
It's even more retarded if you consider that all subspecies of turks were spin-offs of the Golden Horde and that Jenkins Khan's very grandson, Berke, reverted and made the Golden Horde a weapon of terror to the service of pisslam.
7f405f No.580319
>>580317
>Be Europe
>A collection of Franks, Teutons, Britons, Norse, Iberians and Slavs (OK and some Hellenics too)
>Spend centuries shittalking and only occasionally beating the shit out of each other
>It's all going fine
>Until, out of nowhere, millions of Muslims swarm in and fuck things up for everyone (including themselves)
>It always takes a few decades/centuries to clean up after kicking them out too.
I still can't quite wrap my head around how the Ottomans managed to screw up as hard as they did. To go from the superpower that could have owned as much of Europe, Africa, and Central Asia as they wanted to … well … a bunch of Turks is a fall from grace that beggars belief.
97e97f No.580320
>>580319
Infighting, they kept leaving multiple male heirs who would sometimes side with the Europeans to attack their siblings, kek
7f405f No.580321
>>580320
So the Kebab was self removing?
97e97f No.580322
>>580321
Basically.
Also because off all the chimping out they did and jizya, traders who used to go through Anatolia and the middle east stopped doing it, which lead to the exploration age as Europeans tried to find alternate trade routes to the East Indies and China, which ultimately lead to the discovery of the West Indies, most of Africa and America, which cut off almost all of the Turk's money they gained from trading and operating trade routes while leading to the Renaissance in Europe.
Being turkroaches was the downfall of the ottomans
7f405f No.580323
File: 183ef2a26dde012⋯.jpg (Spoiler Image, 61.99 KB, 943x774, 943:774, Turkish amateur gay incest.jpg)
>>580322
So all that needs to happen for Europe to reclaim Anatolia would be for the Burgers to stop funding and defending the Turkmen occupiers.
4b2b42 No.580342
>>580319
>I still can't quite wrap my head around how the Ottomans managed to screw up as hard as they did.
The only reason they lasted that long was because of the Schism and consequently multilateral perfidiousness and backstabs between European powers viewing the Ottoman as a perpetual borderline failure that was to be used as diplomatic trump card between actually competent White empires.
The "mighty" empire of gunpowder had their shit handed over so hard by a handful of ragtag-clad bandits that went crying to Egypt for help. The very moment a unified Christian European front decided that Greeks would make a more reliable buffer state than the durkas the Ottoman empire fell in a single proper battle.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Navarino
259e2b No.580344
>>580319
>I still can't quite wrap my head around how the Ottomans managed to screw up as hard as they did.
It was the central empire of a civilization, therefore they fall from grace the same way Rome did: they were blinded by their own power and hubris, and so they didn't care about the outside world, preferring internal squabbles.
7f405f No.580355
>>580342
>Battle of Navarino
>22 British, Russian, and French warships
>Against an armada of at least 80 Ottoman vessels
>Despite outnumbering the allied forces by about 4:1 they take four times as many casualties as the allied forces.
Now that's just embarrassing. Hell, several African tribes managed to give Europe a bloodier nose than that from a much weaker position.
4b2b42 No.580363
>>580344
They had no semblance to Rome, their mentality was almost identical to its Mongol Empire predecessor, just militaristic expansion and establishment of draconic laws and tributary taxation. Whatever bureaucratic and economic functions were required to sustain the infrastructure left by the Byzantines was ran by Greeks and Armenians, since the vast majority of ethnic turks were illiterate and their job was just to fight and hoarde loot, and the slave trade was largely ran by kikes.
b122b1 No.580372
You basically stated it OP it's because light calvalry gets the fuck torn out of it by heavy cav. The Euros had also learned and adapted to the Mongols tactics since the first invasion.
e31ea3 No.580421
>>580372
I wasn't asking why they won. I was asking if there was any good literature or anything on knights vs mongols. For such an important conflict there seems to be very little on it.
da3d29 No.580432
>>580342
Isn't that also the first time a steam powered ship saw combat?
7ab55c No.580438
ONLY THE MONGOLS HAVE EVER CONQUERED RUSSIA
I never found /int/ "banter" funny because it was incredibly malicious a lot of the time (namely when speaking about World War Two).
Back in ~early 2015 I posted the John Green meme image on 4/pol/ and was called many things, until I pointed out the filename. I like that meme image because it's a good way of pointing out that either the spirit of the board or site is ill, and, or the posters are somewhat nu, or just stupid.
Now, smart fun =! dumb fun, but as imageboard culture, and therefore, Internet subculture, is in decline, it is only natural that dumb fun becomes commonplace.And, it's normalnigger-type dumb fun.;_;
4cd657 No.580447
>>580438
>>john green meme image
post it
886708 No.580457
>>580274
they would have just done the russian tactic of throw human waves at the defenders until they win (is that where russians got it from? their mongol ancestors?). the mongols didn't just fight with horse archers or nothing.
67d8df No.580460
>>580438
> "incredibly malicious" banter
>;_;
You're not lending any credence to yourself, retard.
f9c39c No.580470
80fa39 No.580474
>>580432
Not sure.
>>580355
>Now that's just embarrassing.
That was far from the Ottoman's fleet low-point:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Chesma
> At about 1:30 a.m. or earlier (times were about 90 minutes earlier, according to Elphinstone), fire from Grom and/or Ne tron menya caused an Ottoman ship of the line to blow up after her main topsail caught fire, and the fire quickly spread to other ships of the line. By 2 a.m., two Ottoman ships of the line had blown up and more were on fire, and Greig sent in three fireships (the fourth, seeing the danger, stayed out), which contributed in a small way to the burning of almost the entire Ottoman fleet. At about 4 a.m., boats were sent in to save two ships of the line which were not burning, but one of these caught fire while it was being towed. The other, Rodos 60, survived and was captured along with five galleys.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_Kanaris#Military_career
>At Chios, on the moonless night of June 6/June 7, 1822 forces under his command destroyed the flagship of the Turkish admiral Nasuhzade Ali Pasha (or Kara-Ali Pasha) in revenge for the Chios Massacre. The admiral was holding a celebration (Bayram), so Kanaris and his men managed to place a fire ship next to it without being noticed. When the flagship's powder store caught fire, all men aboard were instantly killed. The Ottoman casualties comprised 2000 men, both naval officers and common sailors, as well as Kara-Ali himself.
After half century of having their capital ships blown up by fishing boats with incendiary bombs you'd think they would learn to not crowd their fleets and to have nighttime sentinels.
Guess that happens when you have deep continental steppeniggers trying to play battleship.
7f405f No.580477
>>580474
>The Ottoman Empire (the 'Rome' knockoff show that completely missed the point, and that the fans hate, but that got 12 seasons for some reason)
>Beaten by
>The Russian Empire (the creepy, weird, fetishy 'Rome' self insert fanfic written by the strangest chick in the fan club)
I don't think I've ever actually met a Turk, but I'm guessing that they don't have the decency to be suitably embarrassed about this
80fa39 No.580478
>>580477
>>The Russian Empire (the creepy, weird, fetishy 'Rome' self insert fanfic written by the strangest chick in the fan club)
You can't grasp how on spot you are. The only reason the Ottoman Empire did not crumble with Orlov's Revolt was mostly because the direct descendant of King Leonidas called Orlov a "pussy-whipped beta-orbiter of a whore" for insulting his men's ruggedness.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maniots#Orlov_Revolt
db0fd7 No.580480
>>580478
>Mavromichalis stated to Orlov that if they wanted to start a real war, they had to occupy Koroni, and that if they did not, they should not excite the Greeks in vain. Orlov replied by calling the Maniots "ragged" and "rude booty men".[43] To this, Mavromichalis replied, "The last of these ragged booty men keeps his freedom with his own sword and deserves more than you, slave of a whore!"[44] The Russians left and conducted their own operations until the end of the year, when they ultimately sailed back to Russia.[41]
c736ea No.580483
>>579988
Mongloids lost wherever they faced enemies who didn't stand around in wide open planes or where they couldn't find traitors to bribe.
db0fd7 No.580488
>>580478
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daskalogiannis#Leader_of_revolt
>Be Cretan leader promised Russian support
>Initiate revolution with your men, anticipating support
>Little support comes
>What does come to Greece doesn't come your way
>What arrives where it's supposed to is split in two
>One half of which gets so insulted by Mavromichalis that it just leaves
>End up heavily outnumbered and summarily defeated
>Captured, tortured, flayed, and executed
>mfw
7ab55c No.580496
>>580432
No, it's the first time stteam-powered ships saw combat.
No, it's the last time only sails-ships were used. Since then they used a mixture before sails were phased out.
375a79 No.580498
>>580488
>488
It's retroactively funny because Cretans and Maniots are viewed as largely similar but with the Cretans being far-left and the Maniots more rightwing than Hitler, the Hitlest.
375a79 No.580501
>>580497
Butthurt roach detected.
3b5f39 No.580505
>>580478
>Ottomans send a force of Albanians
>they can't afford to pay them, so the Albanians rape, pillage, massacre, and enslave everyone in sight for a decade
>Turks eventually have to send another army to stop the first army they sent from acting like niggers
375a79 No.580514
>>580505
Even though legendarily bad-tempered turkroaches can eventually mellow down into the sluggish fat degenerate pieces of shit they aspire to be once a steady supply of sugary treats, little boy bellydancers and brain-washed eunuch houseguards has been secured.
Albanimals of the other hand are in a constantly feral state. Even the most successful albanian in human history, Ali Pasha of Ioannina, despite his legendary riches, power and unconditional support for his crimes given by the Sultan, remained a rabid dog that had to ultimately be put down because he tried to bite the hand that fed him for no other reason than petty powermongering.
86363d No.580523
>>580460
This damage control.
7ab55c No.580537
375a79 No.580540
aa38e9 No.580541
>>580319
>>580317
>>580297
>>580278
>>580268
The most funny about pic 2 is that it's not Christians… it's just Germans doing what they do best.
b821ae No.580558
>>580321
Isn't that always the case?
Even without outside meddling they always wind up slaughtering one another for not being muslim enough.
b821ae No.580560
>>580438
t. can't, hasn't, and won't ever handle the bants
The /int/ that existed before you started using imageboards would've had you in tears if you honestly think 2015 shit was anywhere near malicious.
7ab55c No.580568
>>580560
>2015
That's /pol/ boi
Wasn't talking about /int/
Mostly talking about WW2. Everything else is alright.
7ab55c No.580569
7ab55c No.580571
>>580541
FRENCH PRESS BEST PRESS
4543dd No.580580
I made some shitposting OC about this very subject awhile back. Knights were generally effective against the Mongols, but very few of them fought during the first Mongol invasion because Western Europe, where most of the knights were, couldn't be assed to send more than around 90 knights to aid the Eastern Europeans. And even then, the Mongols were only able to kill about 9 or 10 of them. The Hungarian army during the first invasion was made up almost entirely of light cavalry which, as you can imagine, was very easy for the Mongolian archers to mow down. They also had very poor defense for their cities and towns. If they had fortifications at all they were mostly made out of wood or clay, though there were a few that had stone fortifications and were much more difficult for the Mongols to attack. During the second invasion the Hungarians had learned their lessons and were much more successful as a result.
>>580254
>the only reason europe got saved was because ogedai khan or whatever died and the armies got recalled
Eh, that's possible but a lot of historians are contesting that theory nowadays on the grounds that it would have been impossible for Batu and Subutai to have learned about Ogdei's death by the time they began to withdraw. There are a lot of other theories as to why they left. The two most popular ones that I've seen are a)they didn't think it was worth the effort to try and invade the Holy Roman Empire with all it's hills, dense forests, and thousands of stone castles and b) They never planned on going further than Poland in the first place. Batu just wanted to stick it to the king of Hungary and only conquered Poland cut off his escape route. Personally I think if they had tried to go further west they would have ended up being repelled at something similar to the Battle of the Catalaunian Plains.
f7f8b6 No.580595
>>580590
Because the Europeans would hoard food for the winter while the mongols would just forage. There tactics worked really well in places where it was hard to farm enough to stockpile food but in Europe the mongols would be the ones starving as they waited for the Europeans huge stocks of food to run out. Not to mention that lightly armored horsemen don't fair very well against fortifications that shoot at them.
7f405f No.580601
>>580558
Kind of, but the problem is the amount of damage that spreads around the place while they're in the process of killing each other. That's also best case scenario for a Muslim world. In a world with non-muslims they get less worked up about
>YOUR INTERPRETATION OF SHARIA LAW IS MARGINALLY LESS AUTISTIC THAN MINE, DIE INFIDEL!
and more focused on
>LOOK, THEY AREN'T MUSLIMS, MURDERRAPEKILL!
67d8df No.580603
>>580523
You going to cry about it? Suicide yourself. Oh wait, am I being too malicious for you to handle, you literal five year old?
6d2f81 No.580614
>>580598
>Did they really rely on just forage? I always assumed they had some kind of supply train bringing food.
From where? They already pillaged everything between themselves and their land of origin and their land of origin has no supplies or they wouldn't be pillaging niggers.
Its the same reason why Napoleons Arms bite the dust in Russia, just that the invading Mongols did it to themselves.
Think about it, all the Horses the Mongols took with them needed food and water and they became practically useless once the Mongols encountered real Fortifications.
>And besides, food is not the only thing that can run out. Water, morale, disease are all alternate options and mongols knew to exploit them.
Yes but all those things are also old hats for the Europeans, since they basically invented Castle warfare in this part of the world.
The Greeks had their intercity warfare in antiquity and the Romans build fortifications all over Europe to fight against the invading Barbarians.
Only new thing the Mongols had was gunpowder with they stole from the Chinese they conquered, but that only in a really primitive state.
375a79 No.580615
>>580572
>mongolboo
>calling others turks
375a79 No.580616
>>580589
>And there were a lot more Turks than Balkans
Only if by "Turk" you mean converted Anatolians.
b8664d No.580622
I fucking hate people who fetishize mongol bows, the yew bow outranged them for years and there are plenty of ancient greek bows that did the same.
The only reason Mongols ever won is because they had like 10:1 numerical advantage, and managed to hit Europe at the same time as it was riddled with famine, disease, and bad government.
b821ae No.580645
a826f5 No.580771
I use to fan boy about the mongolian too
But clearly they are way overrated nowdays
Pic related
The “Mongol Yoke” is a theoretical construct cobbled together by German historians at the court of Russian Czars in the XVIII century. Some of the hard evidence support that. We know the fact of nomadic invasions led by and into the European steppes, Hungary and Poland, and the existence of Mongol-led ochi in the wake of it.
Yet, after all is said and done, there’s close to none forensics that support the claim that (1) Mongols ravaged the principalities inside the Russian woodlands north of the line Kiev-Voronezh-Tambov and (2) that the contemporary Christian Slavs, Turks and Ugro-Finns west of Volga River considered the suzerainty of the Empire of Jochi over their territories as a “yoke”.
There are close to none artifacts or burial sites in the Russian heartland that can be clearly attributed to Mongols
The presence of Mongol traces in the DNA of ethnic Russians is marginal
The contemporary Russian chronicles mention no “Mongols”
The word “yoke” as an attribute to the suzerainty of Turkic descendants of the Empire of Jochi over Russian principalities was first used by a Polish author in the XVII century
Contemporary Russian dukes saw the Empire of Jochi and its descendants as their rightful rulers. Even after the sacking of Kazan and Astrakhan by Ivan the Terrible, the subsequent Russian Czars continued to pay tribute to southern Tatar kingdoms. It was first Peter the Great that put an end to that in 1700 and made the Russian Czardom officially independent, which made it possible to declare Russia an Empire in 1721.
The Empire of Jochi was a great enabler of the spread of Christianity in Russia. The clergy was exempt from taxes. The Turkic rulers supported the Orthodox Church in pushing back German and Polish Catholics. They also encouraged the greater autonomy of the Moscow Patriarchy from the central Orthodox authority in Constantinople, which led to an increasing accretion of liturgical differences and later to the painful in the XVII century.
We had no narrative of a “fight for independence” from Mongols or Turks. The grievances in Russian chronicles look rather like a list of injustices suffered from a higher authority and roving gangs of their unruly subjects, not much unlike the kind of lawless and destructive behavior from our own rulers.
Even the known battles that are pictured as epic events of Russian self-assertion, show no clear-cut lines of confrontation between Russians and Tatar-Mongols. The evidence shows a mixture of Christian and Turkic elements on both sides. The greatest battle we won against Mongols in 1380, the , was not one against the Emperor of Jochi, but against his rogue challenger Mamai.
One of our greatest national heroes, St Alexander Nevsky, was beatified for fighting Swedes, Germans and other Russians, not Mongols/Tatars. He was a faithful subject of the Emperor of Jochi. The fact of his sainthood clearly shows the loyalty of Russian Orthodox church to Mongols and Turks.
Long story short: we have zero reasons to hate Mongols, whatever German historians at the Romanovs’ court had to say.
5f8a51 No.580797
>>580705
>By "Turk" I mean the Turkmens
There's a reason they are called Turk-men. They were hybrids of turks with humans, they were already diluted by 50% at that time.
507313 No.580927
>>580705
>I don't think the turks were so few as to be diluted.
DNA evidence disagrees.
Slant eye contribution is 1.3% to 1.9% in Turkey. At this point Canada is more turan-stroooong than Turkey.
In balkans it's doubless far lower.
4883fe No.580971
>>580589
> A bunch of major conquest attempts failed, which was bad because the state was counting on war plunder to repay debts and army salaries
This doesn't exactly scream "solid economic base" to me.
>>580598
Supply train originating where? Their homeland and all of the places they pillaged were pretty barren, as >>580614 says, and on top of that the Mongols didn't do much in the way of settling. They brought women and children with them in their hordes, not much incentive to establish any kind of trade routes or infrastructure if you're bringing your whole civilization with your army.
5fe170 No.580989
>>580971
>This doesn't exactly scream "solid economic base" to me.
Plundering is the only economy roaches understand.
97a2fd No.580994
>>580297
> Are we just going to pretend that it was a Mongol horde that relieved the siege at Vienna in the late 17th century
Yes, because Poland had jews (none of which as destructive to the west as the rotschild dynasty), and didn't pay them 300 billion dollars ransom for the holocauster™ so all achievements of Poland are thus invalid (^:
7f405f No.580998
>>580994
>none of which as destructive to the west as the rotschild dynasty
wouldn't we need multiple, simultaneous, global nuclear firestorms to be as destructive as the Rothschild family? As in a pile of 20MT warheads placed every 100m around the globe and detonated simultaneously.
97a2fd No.581000
>>580998
You can recover from Nuclear annihilation, you can't recover from (((international banking clique))) and (((Cultural Marxism/Bolshevism)))
5fe170 No.581018
>>580998
> As in a pile of 20MT warheads placed every 100m around the globe and detonated simultaneously.
Only if detonated in Western cities/big towns with over 56% White population. Good luck finding one for every >20MT nuke in existence.
35c914 No.581041
>>580438
>ONLY THE MONGOLS HAVE EVER CONQUERED RUSSIA
technically speaking we also got moscow
c840cb No.581047
7ab55c No.581128
>>581047
As far as I know, aren't the French basically Russian?
>>581041
Wait, so poles are asian? I'm so confused.
also
YOU'RE ALL KNEE-GROWS
7ab55c No.581129
>>580589
WOAH THERE BUCKO I DIDN'T COME HERE TO READ SHAKESPEARE
>>>/lit/
e31ea3 No.581136
>>580268
I know that second pic is mostly shit, but why didn't Christian forces kick Moorish nigs out of Iberia sooner?
35c914 No.581143
>>581128
>Wait, so poles are asian?
DAS ROIGHT
>>581047
napoleon didnt capture and hold moscow
7f405f No.581150
>>581047
Napoleon arrived just in time to see the Russians burn Moscow to the ground, starting a retreat through the Russian winter that made the Wehrmacht look like they had an easy run of things.
c840cb No.581152
>>581143
>>581150
He occupied it for about a month after the Russians abandoned it. It still counts.
7f405f No.581160
>>581152
>Being this much of a Napoleonaboo.
You do know that he loses at the end, don't you?
c840cb No.581194
>>581160
Do you know how many losing sides people on here side with?
I'm not saying Napoleon's invasion was as successful as the mongols or Poland, I'm just pointing out that Napoleon did in fact capture Moscow. Of course he never conquered Russia as a whole but that was never really the plan.
7f405f No.581206
>>581194
>Break your back taking Moscow
>Ruskis burn it down anyway because 'lol if we can't have it you can't have it'
>Long, humiliating, painful march west as General January enters the conflict, killing more men than the enemy.
>Arrive back home, maybe nobody will remember this one.
>Get beaten by sausagemunchers and tea addicts because you sent 1/3rd of your army off to pursue rumours of the enemy and they were picking flowers while you had your arse handed to you (no, seriously).
>People will still defend you after this.
I'd have a lot more respect for him, and forgive a lot more, if he hadn't betrayed the French Republic by crowning himself Emperor.
174df3 No.581211
>>581206
>caring about republicans
Crowning himself emperor was the one good thing he did tbh
4aa403 No.581213
>>580622
Composite bows shit om the self bows. English where just barbarians when it comes to archery. English longbow meme exist only because of the 19th century British propaganda (same propaganda that invented memes: European swords are iron clubs weighting 20 pounds, knights needed a crane to get on the horse, knight falling on the ground can't get up etc).
4aa403 No.581214
>>580438
Impossible difficulty. Conquer Russia during WINTER.
7f405f No.581221
>>581211
Go back to sucking Saxe-Coburg-Gothe taint, Royalist.
5fe170 No.581223
>>581206
> if he hadn't betrayed the French Republic by crowning himself Emperor
Opinion discarded.
5fe170 No.581225
>>581221
At least their dick's not circumcised.
ce3980 No.581229
>>581221
>liking monarchism means you have to like every royal family
Fuck off taig
91151b No.581231
>>581214
If the US has proved anything is that the way to defeat Russia is to declare war and then never fight them. Eventually they will destroy themselves.
35c914 No.581233
>>581214
well technically we also did that
siege of smolensk was some real serious shit. you know shit is interesting when there are 4 times more people in suplly chain then you have wariors
>>581213
>Composite bows shit om the self bows. English where just barbarians when it comes to archery.
dont they get destroyed by rain? their use wasnt really justifable in that region of europe