/k/ - Weapons

>>516875

Lower capacity, greater recoil, but the bullets are bigger and shoot harder to it's arguably worth it.

I think so if they're wearing body armor or on PCP, but otherwise 9mm is better especially for carry.

If youre limited in expansion (geneva), it makes sense to go larger caliber.

Objects with lower speed and higher mass tend to deviate less as they go through cover.

Malleable objects tend not to overpenetrate.

Theres a lot of positives to be said for .45, and its generally a perfect tradeoff with 9mm in terms of wound channel vs. capacity.

Neither is 9mm, for the exact same reasons you wrote of widespread usage by military and law enforcement, and yet many 45ACPers will still shit all over it and claim it's useless. Goes both ways.

>>516910

9mm is useless meme was invented to piss off 9mm fags who kept shitting on 45 acp.

no 45acp owner ever truly thought 9mm is useless.

>be NYfag

>10 round limit

>carry G26 in summer, G30 in winter

inb4 move, I want to see this state collapse from the inside. Also buying mags from PA proves gun control doesn't work

>>516952

I have met way too many fudds at local gun stores who deride 9mm and any pistols in that caliber to believe your statement, Leaf.

>>516981

Challenge these good sirs to take a 9 mm to the forehead and see how shitty a round it is for themselves.

>>516981

>>516986

even if the fudds didn't exist, you assholes would still have your inferiority complex.

I have a soft spot for .45, but it has exactly one limitation that makes it of limited use: there is no GOOD double stack .45 handgun. They're expensive, awkward, and generally fucky. For pistol caliber carbines, SMGs etc, I prefer .45.

>>516952

9mm is good enough, and its not as hard to build a good gun around it as it is with .45. That's why the 1911 has aged better than the hi-power.

>>516993

not that I own a SMG, my fudd congressman won't do his paperwork. I hope that getting shot at by a lib didn't turn him into a fudd

>>516885

>I think so if they're wearing body armor

It's subsonic and won't go through it, are you trying to go for shock?

>>516993

>muh double stack

Nothing an extended mag can't fix.

>inb4 this ends up a triplepost because this piece of shit site doesn't work

.45acp meets the minimum 12" penetration in ballistic gel, so it's not terrible.

Other rounds meet the same standard, though. They're not terrible either.

Given that the penetration standard is met, shot placement is obviously important.

Other rounds are cheaper than .45acp, so you can practice shooting more for the same ammo cost.

You get more magazine capacity in most 9mm than you do with most .45acp pistols.

Both points lead one away from .45acp on to other calibers, such as 9mm.

Does .45acp work? Sure. So do other calibers, though, and figuring in ammo cost and capacity leads me more towards 9mm rather than .45acp.

>hear gunshot

>sidestep the bullet before it even reaches you

Hehe, nuffin personnel, fudd.

>>516909

>If youre limited in expansion (geneva)

But lad, the Geneva convention is about POWs.

>>517003

Given that logic, why not go 4x19mm straight wall? It would meet penetration test, and you could casket stack 40-50 of them in a normal grip size.

>>516986

9mm fudd killin bullet

Doesn't 9mm usually go faster though?

>>517059

because its aplication is unpopular and there are few handguns that utilize it which leads to ammo being rare thanks to lack of buyers?

>>517070

>overpenetrate

that's why you use hollow point unless you think the other guy will be wearing a vest.

Here's a pro to .45 acp: better ballistics when shot suppressed.

Con to .45 acp suppressed: louder than 9mm suppressed (which in turn is louder than .22 suppressed)

as long as the casing is intact and it doesn't misfire, all ammo is good.

except .17 pinfire

>>517066

>>517070

certainly 9mm is faster but the over-compression of tissue is far less of a factor in wound canals than .45 instead it favors penetration

>9mm

>because if someone is worth shooting once, they are probably worth shooting twice

But, really, since they open carry the full sized pistols they can actually make better use of the ballistics of .45 due tho the longer barrel and receive less recoil due to the weight of the gun.

Also what >>517115 said

It's funny you should mention it, OP, because I just got done making my "calibers that aren't terrible" list and choosing a personal defense platform based on it.

Sure, there may be better options than the single action .38 lc revolver that I landed on, but I'm definitely betting my life on an adequate caliber.

.45's natural advantages are that it has a bigger expansion and it is already subsonic.

It trades it off by being a low pressure cartridge and really limits its potential for anything else, and loses to nearly everything else in mag cap. 9x19 nearly matches it in kinetic energy for double the amount of shots, and at least matches the hole of a 45 fmj.

10mm beats both 9mm and 45 in muzzle energy, and only loses two rounds in a full size handgun compared to 9mm.

If you pick .45, you're picking a round that is objectively inferior to at least 3 other calibers in mainstream production- 10mm, 9mm and 40s+w. 10mm wipes the fucking floor with .45, and 9mm is an acceptable substitute for glass wristed babies and women because it has a proven man-slaying track record with decent carry ammo. Everything else is garbage tier.

>>517160

>what is +p

>>517179

>What is +p

A piss poor substitute for having good ammo, and you still only have seven shots.

Go 10mm, go 9mm, or go home.

>>516875

>.45 ACP isn't terrible.

>>517160

>10mm wipes the fucking floor with .45, and 9mm is an acceptable substitute for glass wristed babies and women

>>517187

>Go 10mm, go 9mm, or go home.

This is the conclusion I see from every .45 ACP discussion.

/thread

>>517208

>That's why no major military or LEA uses 10mm right?

>Appeal to authority in it's purest form

.45 is what they used before. It's pretty common for people to default to what they knew worked last, as opposed to doing something better than either. .40 shit and weak is roughly equivalent to 45, but constant, changing situations read- need more gibsmedats mean that police will never stick with one cartridge for very long.

Shot placement is far more critical than an extra 2mm diameter and few grains of weight, although of course a larger projectile will have more mass and thus more kinetic energy to impart to the target, sure.

I like both 9mm parabellum and .45 American Combat Pistol. John Moses Browning was - and remains - the finest gunsmith and inventor ever to grace the fucking planet - if it was good enough for him, it's good enough for me.

/thread

>>516980

>Why doesn't anybody manufacture .455 anymore?

YOU STUPID FAGGOT, WHY NOT RELOAD SOME WITH TRIMMED-DOWN CASES, YOU GODDAMNED COCKSUCKING MAGGOTY FAGGOT FUCKSTICK??

>>517208

>That's why no major military or LEA uses 10mm right?

That because they hire women. FBI turned down the 10mm precisely because women and homosexuals couldn't handle the recoil of a real gun. Which lead to the creation of .40 slow and weak

>>517208

>That's why no major military or LEA uses 10mm right?

You must love the F-35 and think it was worth the money considering the government are masters of procurement.

>>516986

Take a 6mm plastic pellet to the eye and then tell me airsofts are not good for self defense.

>>517244

If it has enough joule that is true. If you shoot it with enough pressure even 6mm plastic pellets can tear through skin and cartilage.

This is the reason why many countries in Europe limit airsofts to a certain pressure level and everything above needs a gun license.

Also 6mm plastic pellets would beat any caliber here when it comes it magazine capacity.

test

>>517073

Even if you were to claim "smallest commercially viable bullet" it still wouldnt be 9mm.

>>517206

>>517160

>t. nofuns

>>516875

Everything that isn't 7,62x25mm is terrible.

>>517208

No organizations use 10mm because it's the CY+2 and using a round that's for men only isn't politically correct.

>>517380

>Everything that isn't 40mm grenades is terrible

ftfy

>>517002

>nothing an extended mag can't make uncomfortable and impractical for concealed carry

.357 mag and 10mm are the only acceptable self-defense calibers for men. 9mm is fine for women and children or a backup gun.

.45 is for washed-up Navy guys whose hands are too shaky from alcoholism to make a half-decent shot.

:)

>>517444

>.357 mag for men

If you're bringing a revolver into it ypu may as well mention .44 mag too, because if all you have is six shots you may as well have something that will blow chunks of his spine out the back of him.

>>517448

Except that 10mm is an objectively superior round on all counts.

>>517475

It's a big round.

>>517457

9x25 dillon is what happens when 10mm and 9x19 have dirty dumpster sex and have a baby.

>115 grain at 1800fps from a 4" barrel

That's a varmint round if I ever saw one

MUST ACCELERATE HASTILY

>>517564

>224 boz

LOOK AT ME 10MM SEMPAII

It's a round begging to be put in an over-under twin barrel pistol carbine and shot with it's bigger brother.

>>517560

UU

UU

>>517380

This is true, its superior to 5.7.

>>517444

(checked)

Also .50 SW magnum

>>517448

Is that really smiley?

>>517564

CUTE

>muh capacity

I have 14 rounds of .45 in my gun, friendos

>>517844

With the FNX Tactical you could have 15+1, checkmate 9mm subhumans all my pistols are in 9mm

>>517844

You could have had 16 for the same size and more grunt. Admit it, you goofed.

http://armscor.com/firearms/rock-series/rock-ultra-fs-hc-10mm/

Clearly 10mm is the best because it's the biggest number.

>>518559

>>518682

.50SW magnum

googl it

>>518706

10 is bigger then 0.5, checkmate.

Glock 20, T95, Colt Delta, S&W 610, and MP5/10 are the only 10mm guns I know, what else chambers the best viable pistol round of all time.

>>517448

You say that like there's a downside to it.

>>518559

We're talking autoloader cartridges, friend. 44 magnum and up are cartridges you pick when you hang around dangerous animal territory and can't be fucked taking more than one gun innawoods or you're like me and have a very serious hard on for cowboy guns. In terms of general self defense against two legged idiots inna city, 10mm wins out. If I were to pick either a 10mm or a 44 for hunting? You bet your sweet ass I'm loading that puppy with keith loads if only my shitty country allowed it.

>>518717

Then go with the Russian 12.5x55mm revolver…

I've never understood this fascination with debating handgun calibers. At the end of the day, they all suck at killing the man-sized targets they are intended for (with the exception of certain mondo-sized cartridges used in hunting revolvers).

Handguns serve as a last ditch option to save your life and your choice of caliber should be dictated by the most likely scenario in which you'd need a last ditch option. Are you worried about saving your life in the course of every day activities? 9mm is the optimal caliber as it offers the best balance between power, recoil, and the size/shape of a firearm adequate for everyday carry. Are you worried about a home break in? A revolver chambered in .38 special or .357 revolver is perfect if you also have a carbine or shotgun. The revolver will fire when you pull it out of your bedside drawer no matter how long it's been since you last touched it and 6 rounds is enough to fight your way to your long gun which is actually lethal enough to reliably kill with one shot. If you don't have a long gun, get a full size handgun in .45ACP as the wound channel is superior enough to 9mm to make the reduced capacity worth it while the recoil with a full size frame is low enough compared to 10mm that accurate follow up shots are doable for nearly any sized shooter.

TL;DR: Handguns only make sense when you can't get access to a long gun. Arguing over calibers irrespective of the guns they're used in is meaningless and there's only one good choice for each of the major styles (CCW, first option home defense, only option home defense).

>>518796

glock 29 for cc/ 40 for long barreled sexiness , sr1911, rock ultra, sig something non drop safe, various other 1911 patterns

>>518893

Imagine when someone decides to improve it, and makes a spitzer round with a steel penetrator, and also doublestack magazines.

>>516875

>what happens on the streets is proof enough for me

We have a name for this kind of thing. It's

ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE

>>516875

>>517115

subsonic 9mm has less powder charge.

A normal .45 is subsonic and ergo the same powder charge as normal….

It does actually make for a louder shot, just better ballistics because .45 is designed around subsonic ammo.

>>519236

What are statistics, if not a compilation of anecdotes?

>>518796

>>520957

Didn't see the T95 tucked away in there. My mistake, strelok.