/k/ - Weapons

>>516649

>19,000 troops

wow i think poland had more back in FUCKING 900s. Good job sweden you truly showed them.

>Sweden will simulate an attack from the east on the Baltic island of Gotland, near the Swedish mainland.

I bet they will lose to themselfs

>Sweden

>19,000 troops

Kek.

>>516652

Mate that's a blatant lie.

It's 5000 or something, the entire swedish army is basically an infantry brigade without even any artillery…

European military = 1/4 of the numbers on paper.

Switzerland and Finland are the only ones that have roughly the numbers they announce.

NATO = US military… which is busy elsewhere.

>>516663

Because dick waving politicos like to add reserves, women and broke dicks to the number as, what I can only believe, is an attempt at deterrent? Canada has a combined force of military and police of about 100k. There are more rifle owning canucks in just one metro area. Mark my words, its gonna start in Canada soon.

>>516666

yes mr. Quadrasatan

>cut all military

>flood country with jihadis and niggers

>give them citizenship

>reintroduce conscription

>jihadis and niggers all armed and supported by state

>ethnic cleansing of natives in overdrive, led by "own" military

<"Russia is the threat"

>>516673

on place of swedes i would be already going full on ira. I mean whats the worst they can do to you? Sweden doesnt have military and its police force is stretched thin and pathetic.

>>516652

>>516653

>>516658

That's incorrect. There are 19,000 full and part-time soldiers, 22,000 in the home guard, and another 10,000 or so reserves left from the old conscription system. At the height of the cold war, the reserves of conscripts numbered around a million men. Luckily all that was scrapped when we entered the era of eternal peace and liberal democracy after the Soviet Union collapsed. Now their main task is policing dindus and ragheads halfway around the world, and in case of war to give the politicians enough time to flee the country and set up an exile government abroad.

>>516679

>A wild NATO shill appear.

>There are 19,000 full and part-time soldiers

BULL-FUCKING-SHIT.

The Swedish army is made of:

Life Regiment Hussars (K 3) http://www.forsvarsmakten.se/sv/organisation/livregementets-husarer-k-3/

Skaraborg Mech Regiment (P 4)

http://www.forsvarsmakten.se/p4/

South Scania Mech Regiment (P 7)

http://www.forsvarsmakten.se/p7/

Norrbotten Infantry Regiment (I 19)

http://www.forsvarsmakten.se/sv/organisation/norrbottens-regemente-i-19/

Life Guards (LG)

http://www.forsvarsmakten.se/sv/organisation/livgardet/

Artillery Regiment (A 9)

http://www.forsvarsmakten.se/sv/organisation/artilleriregementet-a-9/

Anti Air Regiment (Lv 6)

http://www.forsvarsmakten.se/sv/organisation/luftvarnsregementet-lv-6/

Engineers regiment (Ing 2)

http://www.forsvarsmakten.se/sv/organisation/gota-ingenjorregemente/

Signal Regiment (LedR)

http://www.forsvarsmakten.se/sv/organisation/ledningsregementet/

Logistic Regiment (TrängR)

http://www.forsvarsmakten.se/sv/organisation/trangregementet/

That's 9196 "soldiers", including training centers, parliament/royal palace police unit, MPs, logistics all the POGs and yes it includes the "part-time soldiers". Everything you can scrape off and still it's not a division.

And yes a third of them are officers… meaning they're mostly staff officers that will never fight (in what active unit have you ever seen a Lt every two soldier?) Best case scenario they're leftovers of the days of mass conscription waiting to retire, worse case massive cushy jobs for the elite children wanting to play pretend soldiers (the infamous "Saudi army model").

The rest (home guard, reservists and whatnot) aren't part of the army of Swedish army, because reserves are reserves Reserves are people with jobs and other shit to do (home guard can count as "active reserve" but they can't count as active soldiers AND home guards). And we don't count those… because we would have to compare it with Russia with it's still ongoing full military service and it's stupid amount of gear laying around and their numbers get really spoopy.

>>516663

>how can i know real numbers of a countrys army ? how do you even get that data?

That type of data is generally public and published… you just have to autisticly dig for it.

Because press release data/actual MoD data have gigantic gaps and strangely no one double check the press releases (and press release are a sauce so every site copies it, etc…)

>>516649

>decided to beef up its military

Too bad most probably went to making a new Gripen and trying to sell it.

>>516663

The real Swedish army is their "rapid reaction force", something other countrys call "normal reaction forces". This army consists of 8 battalions total, a few tank companies, maybe 50 active tanks of which only 20-30 are in Sweden.

Compare to OPFOR which is what Russia can spare for total Scandinavian invasion, which is 4 tank brigades (each ~200-300 tanks) and 22 motor rifle brigades.

800-1000+ tanks vs 50 gee I don't know, it could go either way.

>>516679

>home guard

>reserves

Neither of these are regular military, they aren't trained or equipped to fight a war. They aren't even concentrated, if Russians invade, 17k of the home guard and all of the reserves is spread evenly across the country, and would take months to even bring together.

>>516679

>Seriously considering reserves/home guard for anything

>>516700

A modernized Draken would obviously be the superior choice.

>>516789

There was an F16 with deltas and similar performance.

>>516649

>Sweden holds biggest war games

Having a large naked gay orgy is not a war game Sweden!

>>516649

>19.000

>NATO

How much of those are actually POGs?

>>516873

It's even worse than a large number of POGs Argentina, if what >>516687 said is true, most of them are actually staff officers, to a ridiculous ratio.

>>516868

The F-16XL was rather neat but it was meant to compete with the F-15E in the Enhanced Tactical Fighter project and thus was never meant to be a fighter with light multirole capacity like the Draken. I don't think both were even comparable in terms of maneuverability or weapon loadout.

>>516877

Click the links translate it through Google and you will see by yourself. On average they have as much officers as part time soldiers and as regular soldiers.

I didn't believe it either so I went to see if sweden had something were they didn't distinguished between nco and juniors officers but no, not really, they have the same weird thing as germany "cadet officers" (that are in limbo between OR5 and OF1) that are considered NCOs with the same names and everything (swe=Fanjunkare/Fänrik, ger=Fahnenjunker/Fähn­rich) which might explain some of it but it's perfectly stated on several source that a group commander (gruppbefäl) is a Sergent (because before 2009 sergeants apparently still led platoons in Sweden… Did you know that Sweden has been at peace for over 200 years?) and a grupp is a NATO squad-size element.

So even with that that's insanely top heavy sweden most populated regiment (I 19) = 914 soldiers, with the lowest number of squad per platoon (2 squads per platoon) that's 114 OF-1 max (if the number of soldier per squad is the lowest at 8) and even by being completely insane and counting 2 platoons per companies, etc… 62 OF-2, 31 OF-3, 15 OF-4 8 OF-5 and 4 OF-6 2 OF-7 and 1 OF-8, that's 237 (so a Lieutenant General is leading a battalion size unit… which isn't even that surprising really once you dig a bit in NATO "secondary" armies. Typically it's a remnant of a time with a much much larger army organization), you're still at only half of 489…

Even if I'm wrong and they do have something before a platoon leader that they consider to be an officer for dualistic reasons, in Sweden everyone gets to be an officer, (237+228 = 465 add a deputy to each colonels and generals and we're getting there) that's still insanely top heavy (because don't worry there is a brigade staff and the general staff on top of it).

>>516918

I'm meant feministic reasons not dualistic fucking auto-correct.

>>516873

literally 9 out of 10, I wonder what its like with the ivans, probably a wee bit less but REMF/grunt ratio is always high

>>516927

That was very true that's still true (they always liked having lot of lieutenants/captains, mainly because, despite assumption about the soviet military, lower echelons are expected to act on their own and adapt fast so they need the extra brainpower. Then you add the fact that the soviet military was starved for officers in WWII because of the whole "oops I killed half the officers right before a major war". Armies that missed something in a war always overcompensate for the next), but the Russian army is fairly high speed low drag… they literally fired half their officers in 200x, then they made an entire branch with just the POGs (they always had the branch but they put all the heavy log and base personnel in there too)…

There are still a few here and there of course but unless they're speaking "military wise" when they say [a number] of soldiers, it's typically guys with rifles and combat vehicles, even if command/support…

Also remember that naval infantry, coastal defenses and airborne are typically not counted as soldiers, naval and airborne are different corps, like the USMC, coastal are ground forces under navy command, leading to the crazy situation where the fucking Russian Navy can probably invade Sweden on it's own and the VDV Germany… While the Russian Ground Forces actually stays home.

>>516927

Russian Fobbits are rarer because their armies are trained to forage (read:steal) fuel, food, power, telecom etc from local civilians.

In Georgia they just sucked gas pumps dry and totally stole their cellphone network.

Their logistics are the guys in huge off road trucks, usually have their own weapons and espirit des corps.

>>516649

>Fearing Russia, Sweden holds biggest gay orgy in 20 years

FTFY

>>516906

The Draken could pull cobras back in the 60s. With a decent engine and a relaxed stability design it would probably cut circles around most 4th gen shit.

>>516649

>Swedish wargames

With the gender politics and "refugees" that the Swedish gubmint and lefties force down the throats of their own people…

How can they still maintain their military? Don't get me wrong, I do not wish for somebody to suffer, but with all of the PC and SJW globalist agendas and narratives,I mean, sure there is that core group of soldiers that will stand their ground but what about the rest of their military? And knowing the fact that lefties are at the helm of their gubmint, it is pretty surprising that the Swedish military has not gone turbogay from all of the faggoty-ass gayshit the the left spouts and instills on their people.

Still surprising is that the left has not started to attack the military. Here in fliplandistan, the military and police frontliners are always left out in the open to take the blame about "muh hoomie roights" while the top brass has fucked-off to his/her mates golf/whoring time. Or maybe the left in Sweden is biding time/waiting for the near-perfect chance to strike?

>>517020

Militaries are organizations, and organizations have some inertia. You can completely shut down an army with a signature on a document if you are in charge of it, or you can just decrease the funding, and people will start leaving and the equipment is slowly rotting away. But the later can take decades.

>>516918

>per squad is the lowest at 8

That is usually only the case with mechanized infantry (that number also includes the crew), you can't fit too many in the back of a CV90.

Also, a gruppbefäl is just a fancy name for squad lead.

That is at least from my experience, I can't speak for other branches.

>>517020

>How can they still maintain their military

Don't worry about that, the state is preparing for a "host agreement" with (((NATO))) that allows the US to place nuclear weapons on Swedish soil and gives the enemy all clear to use nukes on Sweden.

Too bad that if Sweden is invaded, (((NATO)))'s article 5 does not counts since Sweden is not a real member of (((NATO))) so it's member countries don't have to aid Sweden with jack shit.

>>517040

to be honest russian occupation would be better then your government tbh

now explain why you arent bombing the shit out of mosques this fucking instant

>>517041

actually dont explain, sweden is 14 eyes

So, lets suppose that for some reason there is conventional war in Europe.

Right now, with or without American help, the Russians could conventionally steamroll us.

Do you think the misery would be too much? Because if they can blitz fast enough you could topple (((NATO))) and maybe have an Eurasian Union that is less (((progressive))). Even though the Russians have many flaws of their own, I'm not sure if they are worse off ideologically right now.

What do you think would happen?

>>516951

>ywn be russian military

>ywn get to find new and innovative ways of looting the local populace because "lol functional logistics for western scum"

>>517024

Well, the military would not receive kindly the word that the entire military apparatus will be deactivated. This is where coups start from.

>>516951

> stole their cellphone network

Didn't they do that because their comms with moscow stopped working, like using burner phones to get a hold of general staff?

>>517041

>now explain why you arent bombing the shit out of mosques this fucking instant

It's a dead man's switch for Sweden and clearly next level thinking. Russia tries to invade and finds itself in another goddamn war against Chechnya. The only true difference is that in the case of Sweden, the mudslime now say "børk".

>>516951

That's sure as shit not going to endear the locals but that's also really genius.

>>517104

>That's sure as shit not going to endear the locals but that's also really genius.

locals will hate you either way, you attacked them and thats enough

>>517104

>That's sure as shit not going to endear the locals

>burger "hearts and mind" concept.

Mate you're invading them. They already hate you.

Russia (and everyone that has ever opened a book about state politics) know that the quickest way to a man heart is fear and not love.

>>517104

>endearing the locals

They'll never like you. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

As long as you don't rape, murder, or steal food from their children's mouths an occupier that tries to be a goody two shoes or an occupier that uses the infrastructure/resources they are occupying directly and right away will be seen in similar way.

An occupier is only seen in a positive light if you are replacing a more brutal occupier (like people in the Baltics that were happy when the Nazis came to attack the Soviets).

>>517104

>Locals

They're gonna hates you no matter what, that's why you bomb the ever loving shit out of everything and tell the locals to fuck off.

What happens if the ecnomy were to implode and the rapeugees can't get their gibsmedats anymore?

>>517142

see fall of rodeshia

>>517161

Nah it won't be that bad, it will like [take a pick of any of the shitty Central/South America countries].

>>517101

Yes, but did you ever wonder how their communications "broke down"? 10,000 radio sets dont just malfunction simultaneously.

.

Georgia had surplus US jammers, mounted on humvees. Russians improvised.

>>517078

Theres a mode somewhere between

>1) equip like youre going to iwo jima, or invading mars

>2) equip like you want to annex your neighbors cabbage farm

Thats probably optimal, and it changes between invasions.

>>517142

They'll all die because they arent adapted to Swedish environment, and are too incompetent to feed themselves. Bigger problem is hybrids.

>>517104

Armies trying to carry all the shit they require with them is a new thing. Historically armies have always just taken what they need from wherever they are.

>>517319

I knew that, I was getting at is they didn't do it for no reason what so ever.

>>517416

The problem with taking what you need from the area you're bootstomping is if the asshole you want dead leaves nothing for you.

>>517423

Thats why theres a range:

1) if enemy is taken by surprise, doesnt have time to scorched earth, you forage

2) if enemy routs, retreats in panic, not organized to do scorched earth, you forage

3) always keep a logistics train in your back pocket if you DO get into a situation where you cant forage

The problem with western militaries is that everything is scripted to micro levels, so in order to keep the script running perfectly, its easier to have Mars-tier logistics. Its effective especially on large state foes but not efficient.

Russians cant afford that level of inefficiency, so they use a mixed model, what I posted above. Lets them approximate the same level of effectiveness for less cost.

>>517416

>Armies trying to carry all the shit they require with them is a new thing.

depends what you consider new. German landshnecht were lugong everything everywhere with a big suplly train.

Poland at the siege of Smolensk (aka. attacking russia in winter and winning) had 4 times more people in supply chain then soldiers, they pretty much came with enough shit to survive two years

>>517625

> Its effective

It's mostly effective at making gigantic traffic jams (quite often getting artillery/AA stuck with them) and praying really hard a cruise missile with a cluster warhead doesn't find you… (or commandos or chemical strike, or etc…)

Every Russian battalion has it's own logistics train, same has every brigade does.

It's just that each brigade is expected to act on their own and make last what they have, because the Russian doctrine largely consider that the big separated logistics brigades will never be there when you want them anyway and aren't the concern of combat officers. Foraging is therefore perfectly acceptable, using any weapons/ammo left by the enemy too when possible. For the Georgian radio thing it's not so much American wunderwaffe than the Russian units of the North Caucasus Military District were notoriously poorly equipped (which is the reason the Georgians thought they could get away with it in the first place), the jamming didn't help but with very few satellite comms relay and only legacy comms, the relief of the Caucasus making it perfectly impossible to stay in radio contact, the EW guys adapted and simply took over the Georgian GSM network because that's what the South Ossetian "command" was doing already…

This kind of shit isn't unheard of in NATO either BTW, military radios are "better" because they are their own mobile secure network… but in places where a civilian GSM net does exist it's stupid to not use it in complement because quite often it seriously raise comms quality.

>>517689

You always have such nice posts.

>>517758

you havent even seen our resident fingolian yet, now this is what i call autism

>>517899 (checked)

It seems he kind of just went into detail. Which is good.